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MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!
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ExileOnDaytonStreet
Drunkard
Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!
I'd like to hear more about your thoughts on Rogue One's shortcomings.
Once it got going, I quite enjoyed it. My biggest complaints are of the "CinemaSins will probably mention it, and it does have some plausible explanations that make it less of a big deal" sort of pettiness. It's a very different sort of film than any Star Wars film, but that's mostly by design.
I'd like to hear more about your thoughts on Rogue One's shortcomings.
Once it got going, I quite enjoyed it. My biggest complaints are of the "CinemaSins will probably mention it, and it does have some plausible explanations that make it less of a big deal" sort of pettiness. It's a very different sort of film than any Star Wars film, but that's mostly by design.
ExileOnDaytonStreet
Drunkard
Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!
John Wick indeed was an excellent movie.
John Wick indeed was an excellent movie.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!
Well...how about why the hell did the Rebellion have to assassinate Mads Mikkelson's character. (its not a spoiler) It just made little sense. If they succeed nothing changes and if they dont those characters probably die wasting them completely. I get his purpose to the story and that is fine, but the whole attempt to kill was dumb. It was a stupid method to manufacture drama between two characters that was neither believable or needed.
Forest Whitaker was a waste. His character was lame. As was the stupid Empire Guy who just happened to always be wherever the Rebels were out of nowhere so he could witness everything go wrong and Grand Moff CGI could insult him.
Why did we go planet hopping for the first 10 minutes of the film?
Does the Empire not defrag their hard drives? Always delete your backups.
(if you have seen it you know what I am talking about)
Does the end take place 5 minutes before A New Hope? If not the ending makes almost no sense? If so then the beginning of A New Hope kinda is off too but only in a nitpicky way.
The robot started out cool and got old after "quirky quip #75". Hey tell us the odds again...
Actually that one was the ultimate sin for me...the Christopher Nolan-esque beating over the head of call backs to the Original Trilogy. (Nolan doesnt just tell you once...it has to be done 50 times) Lucas did that with the Prequels too...we get it they are connected. Stop with the "I have a bad feeling about this" style stuff. Give your audience some credit you dont need to hold their hand through everything they get it. Hell they must have mentioned a certain exhaust port 35 times in the movie which took away the coolness of that fact in ANH.
Honestly the flow of the movie sucked because the first half just draaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaags. When things actually start happening and there is real plot and spectacle the movie is great. Honestly a few story changes and it probably rates #2 for me. (right now it is 4 or 5 depending) My changes in white:
First off start the movie the same way with her as a child. That is fine. Even have Forest Whitaker save her like before. Instead of having her then show up in prison for no explained reason (I think that is where she was) have her still with Forest Whitaker and his band of hardcore rebels. Have the Rebellion reach out to him to join the Alliance and have them have the message from her father. Have the Whitaker Crew be the only survivors of the Death Star attack on the stupid Jedi City. Instead of the stupid duel story of wanting to find her father/scoundrel wants to kill her father just have them search him out as he has been a long term spy. Then when they find him the same Empire Guy who took her father from before is there and the battle ensues. (In this version it happens much earlier so there is more action throughout the film making it much less boring.) Daddy dies but gives her the plans without saying he created a flaw just saying it can be defeated...they no longer needed to be stolen from the backup files on Random Planet #6. Have them need to go some place to decode them...some place deep in the Empire which leads to the climactic battle. Or have it on Random Planet #6 just have it be fore a better reason than needing to hack the Empire's Cloud Account
) Have Grand Moff Tarkin send Vader to kill Empire Guy and to defeat the Rebels with his fleet. Dont give away what the message is until the end by having it given to Leia. Let thee audience make the connection dont shove it down their throats.
I think the movie could have been Empire Level great with a different story. It just fell into too many traps in my opinion. That is why I gave it a 5/6 and my buddy barely gave it a 5. If it hadnt been named Star Wars I think the critics are less favorable as well but that is just a gut feeling.
Well...how about why the hell did the Rebellion have to assassinate Mads Mikkelson's character. (its not a spoiler) It just made little sense. If they succeed nothing changes and if they dont those characters probably die wasting them completely. I get his purpose to the story and that is fine, but the whole attempt to kill was dumb. It was a stupid method to manufacture drama between two characters that was neither believable or needed.
Forest Whitaker was a waste. His character was lame. As was the stupid Empire Guy who just happened to always be wherever the Rebels were out of nowhere so he could witness everything go wrong and Grand Moff CGI could insult him.
Why did we go planet hopping for the first 10 minutes of the film?
Does the Empire not defrag their hard drives? Always delete your backups.
(if you have seen it you know what I am talking about)Does the end take place 5 minutes before A New Hope? If not the ending makes almost no sense? If so then the beginning of A New Hope kinda is off too but only in a nitpicky way.
The robot started out cool and got old after "quirky quip #75". Hey tell us the odds again...
Actually that one was the ultimate sin for me...the Christopher Nolan-esque beating over the head of call backs to the Original Trilogy. (Nolan doesnt just tell you once...it has to be done 50 times) Lucas did that with the Prequels too...we get it they are connected. Stop with the "I have a bad feeling about this" style stuff. Give your audience some credit you dont need to hold their hand through everything they get it. Hell they must have mentioned a certain exhaust port 35 times in the movie which took away the coolness of that fact in ANH.
Honestly the flow of the movie sucked because the first half just draaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaags. When things actually start happening and there is real plot and spectacle the movie is great. Honestly a few story changes and it probably rates #2 for me. (right now it is 4 or 5 depending) My changes in white:
First off start the movie the same way with her as a child. That is fine. Even have Forest Whitaker save her like before. Instead of having her then show up in prison for no explained reason (I think that is where she was) have her still with Forest Whitaker and his band of hardcore rebels. Have the Rebellion reach out to him to join the Alliance and have them have the message from her father. Have the Whitaker Crew be the only survivors of the Death Star attack on the stupid Jedi City. Instead of the stupid duel story of wanting to find her father/scoundrel wants to kill her father just have them search him out as he has been a long term spy. Then when they find him the same Empire Guy who took her father from before is there and the battle ensues. (In this version it happens much earlier so there is more action throughout the film making it much less boring.) Daddy dies but gives her the plans without saying he created a flaw just saying it can be defeated...they no longer needed to be stolen from the backup files on Random Planet #6. Have them need to go some place to decode them...some place deep in the Empire which leads to the climactic battle. Or have it on Random Planet #6 just have it be fore a better reason than needing to hack the Empire's Cloud Account
) Have Grand Moff Tarkin send Vader to kill Empire Guy and to defeat the Rebels with his fleet. Dont give away what the message is until the end by having it given to Leia. Let thee audience make the connection dont shove it down their throats.I think the movie could have been Empire Level great with a different story. It just fell into too many traps in my opinion. That is why I gave it a 5/6 and my buddy barely gave it a 5. If it hadnt been named Star Wars I think the critics are less favorable as well but that is just a gut feeling.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!
I keep meaning to watch it...maybe tonight!
I keep meaning to watch it...maybe tonight!
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!
If you're a rebellion hiding from an evil empire, why wouldn't there be a lot of planet hopping in order to get things all lined up? If you're hiding from supreme evil, you spread out your assets until needed. It's a big galaxy, so you toss your assets throughout it in order to reduce the risk of having a large cell fall all at once.
If you're a rebellion hiding from an evil empire, why wouldn't there be a lot of planet hopping in order to get things all lined up? If you're hiding from supreme evil, you spread out your assets until needed. It's a big galaxy, so you toss your assets throughout it in order to reduce the risk of having a large cell fall all at once.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!
I don't understand the drags comments. I don't need action all the time and there was plenty of things to absorb during the film. I was never bored or anxious the whole movie. I also rewatched FA last night and it's even better now than it was before. I don't understand Slap Shot's problem with the fight scene in the woods. It's very well explained why it went down like it did.
Well...how about why the hell did the Rebellion have to assassinate Mads Mikkelson's character. (its not a spoiler) It just made little sense. If they succeed nothing changes and if they dont those characters probably die wasting them completely. I get his purpose to the story and that is fine, but the whole attempt to kill was dumb. It was a stupid method to manufacture drama between two characters that was neither believable or needed.
Forest Whitaker was a waste. His character was lame. As was the stupid Empire Guy who just happened to always be wherever the Rebels were out of nowhere so he could witness everything go wrong and Grand Moff CGI could insult him.
Why did we go planet hopping for the first 10 minutes of the film?
Does the Empire not defrag their hard drives? Always delete your backups.
Does the end take place 5 minutes before A New Hope? If not the ending makes almost no sense? If so then the beginning of A New Hope kinda is off too but only in a nitpicky way.
The robot started out cool and got old after "quirky quip #75". Hey tell us the odds again...
Actually that one was the ultimate sin for me...the Christopher Nolan-esque beating over the head of call backs to the Original Trilogy. (Nolan doesnt just tell you once...it has to be done 50 times) Lucas did that with the Prequels too...we get it they are connected. Stop with the "I have a bad feeling about this" style stuff. Give your audience some credit you dont need to hold their hand through everything they get it. Hell they must have mentioned a certain exhaust port 35 times in the movie which took away the coolness of that fact in ANH.
Honestly the flow of the movie sucked because the first half just draaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaags. When things actually start happening and there is real plot and spectacle the movie is great. Honestly a few story changes and it probably rates #2 for me. (right now it is 4 or 5 depending) My changes in white:
First off start the movie the same way with her as a child. That is fine. Even have Forest Whitaker save her like before. Instead of having her then show up in prison for no explained reason (I think that is where she was) have her still with Forest Whitaker and his band of hardcore rebels. Have the Rebellion reach out to him to join the Alliance and have them have the message from her father. Have the Whitaker Crew be the only survivors of the Death Star attack on the stupid Jedi City. Instead of the stupid duel story of wanting to find her father/scoundrel wants to kill her father just have them search him out as he has been a long term spy. Then when they find him the same Empire Guy who took her father from before is there and the battle ensues. (In this version it happens much earlier so there is more action throughout the film making it much less boring.) Daddy dies but gives her the plans without saying he created a flaw just saying it can be defeated...they no longer needed to be stolen from the backup files on Random Planet #6. Have them need to go some place to decode them...some place deep in the Empire which leads to the climactic battle. Or have it on Random Planet #6 just have it be fore a better reason than needing to hack the Empire's Cloud Account
I think the movie could have been Empire Level great with a different story. It just fell into too many traps in my opinion. That is why I gave it a 5/6 and my buddy barely gave it a 5. If it hadnt been named Star Wars I think the critics are less favorable as well but that is just a gut feeling.
I don't understand the drags comments. I don't need action all the time and there was plenty of things to absorb during the film. I was never bored or anxious the whole movie. I also rewatched FA last night and it's even better now than it was before. I don't understand Slap Shot's problem with the fight scene in the woods. It's very well explained why it went down like it did.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!
No...way worse. They felt the need to explain said exhaust port's existence every five seconds. Think "medicolorians" and their way of ruining everything.
Not everything needs an explanation...sometimes it is cool if things happen by chance. Giving a reason takes away the mythology of stuff and answers questions that dont need answering.
No...way worse. They felt the need to explain said exhaust port's existence every five seconds. Think "medicolorians" and their way of ruining everything.
Not everything needs an explanation...sometimes it is cool if things happen by chance. Giving a reason takes away the mythology of stuff and answers questions that dont need answering.
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!
You're taking a quibble and magnifying it to a point that it doesn't deserve or warrant.
I had quibbles too, but I let them go so I could be in the moment and allow for enjoyment.
You're taking a quibble and magnifying it to a point that it doesn't deserve or warrant.
I had quibbles too, but I let them go so I could be in the moment and allow for enjoyment.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!
So Tarkin asking if the defenses are secure, asking for any vulnerabilities twice in a single conversation, not making any actual comment on an exhaust port, is beating the point to death? It seems to me, you have an expensive new weapons system, you're going to want to make sure it's secure. It seems rather prudent to me, coming from a man who doesn't seem to really trust Krennic (white tunic).
So Tarkin asking if the defenses are secure, asking for any vulnerabilities twice in a single conversation, not making any actual comment on an exhaust port, is beating the point to death? It seems to me, you have an expensive new weapons system, you're going to want to make sure it's secure. It seems rather prudent to me, coming from a man who doesn't seem to really trust Krennic (white tunic).
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!
When the hell did Tarkin mention it? I dont remember that nor is that what I am talking about...
In white:
No it is Mads character talking about how he created the vulnerability and then it being hammered home every time someone brought up the mission. First of the fact that said vulnerability was built in annoyed the **** out of me anyways...but the fact that they talk about it openly a lot just got old fast.
Gurt,
It is a minor quibble to you but it got old to me quick. If it was the only thing it wouldnt have bugged me (the medicolorians didnt bug me the most of the Prequels obviously but **** they are definitely something easy to point out) but as I said in my longer post half of the missions plot was ridiculous so it adds on. Plus the explanation was lazy and as I said really wasnt needed. That isnt why the movie got low marks from me on its own it was a symptom of a lot of flaws I saw with the film. Of course this is just my opinion...I dont expect that many will agree with me.
I guess I see a pattern with movies like this and it kind of takes me out of the film. Since the outcome is pre-determined (we know what happens to the crew and if the mission is successful even before the movie is made based on other movies) there needs to be extra things put in to create extra drama and keep people on the rollercoaster. Some things get stretched out more, some things are needlessly explained and often the ending gets a bit rushed. Pacing can be troublesome because the audience is expecting you to get somewhere by the end. It isnt easy and I am not sure I have seen any movie do it where it wasnt harmful to the story. (imho) This movie was no different which is why they had subplots that went nowhere, characters that really had no purpose and so on. To me (and again I am not trying to convince anyone else otherwise I am glad everyone seems to like it more than I did) this movie would be crap on its own. The Star Wars mythology gives it enough to make it fun and the last 45 minutes are awesome (using a Star Destroyer to push another Star Destroyer into the shield to get the message out was GENIUS!! ) but in reality I dont think this enhances the universe that much. The only characters that matter in the end are the characters you see in ANH and IMHO you are better off watching ANH without having watched this film at all because if you watch them out of the original order it just ruins the coolness of the ending of ANH...
As I said, the movie had the potential to be downright amazing. They could have showed us what the Galaxy under the Empire was truly like. Show planets enslaved and people in fear. This movie treats it much like ANH did where the Alliance has their meetings, the Empire pontificates and destroys stuff from far away and the rest of the galaxy just kinda sits idly by. Then the Death Star goes all Death Star. Throw in Stormtroopers actually being worse shots and it just disappoints. I went in blind with zero expectations and no idea of the story minus the very very basics so I wasnt biased either.
Now if you will excuse me, I need to clear up my cloud account and defrag my drives
When the hell did Tarkin mention it? I dont remember that nor is that what I am talking about...
In white:
No it is Mads character talking about how he created the vulnerability and then it being hammered home every time someone brought up the mission. First of the fact that said vulnerability was built in annoyed the **** out of me anyways...but the fact that they talk about it openly a lot just got old fast.
Gurt,
It is a minor quibble to you but it got old to me quick. If it was the only thing it wouldnt have bugged me (the medicolorians didnt bug me the most of the Prequels obviously but **** they are definitely something easy to point out) but as I said in my longer post half of the missions plot was ridiculous so it adds on. Plus the explanation was lazy and as I said really wasnt needed. That isnt why the movie got low marks from me on its own it was a symptom of a lot of flaws I saw with the film. Of course this is just my opinion...I dont expect that many will agree with me.
I guess I see a pattern with movies like this and it kind of takes me out of the film. Since the outcome is pre-determined (we know what happens to the crew and if the mission is successful even before the movie is made based on other movies) there needs to be extra things put in to create extra drama and keep people on the rollercoaster. Some things get stretched out more, some things are needlessly explained and often the ending gets a bit rushed. Pacing can be troublesome because the audience is expecting you to get somewhere by the end. It isnt easy and I am not sure I have seen any movie do it where it wasnt harmful to the story. (imho) This movie was no different which is why they had subplots that went nowhere, characters that really had no purpose and so on. To me (and again I am not trying to convince anyone else otherwise I am glad everyone seems to like it more than I did) this movie would be crap on its own. The Star Wars mythology gives it enough to make it fun and the last 45 minutes are awesome (using a Star Destroyer to push another Star Destroyer into the shield to get the message out was GENIUS!!
) but in reality I dont think this enhances the universe that much. The only characters that matter in the end are the characters you see in ANH and IMHO you are better off watching ANH without having watched this film at all because if you watch them out of the original order it just ruins the coolness of the ending of ANH...As I said, the movie had the potential to be downright amazing. They could have showed us what the Galaxy under the Empire was truly like. Show planets enslaved and people in fear. This movie treats it much like ANH did where the Alliance has their meetings, the Empire pontificates and destroys stuff from far away and the rest of the galaxy just kinda sits idly by. Then the Death Star goes all Death Star. Throw in Stormtroopers actually being worse shots and it just disappoints. I went in blind with zero expectations and no idea of the story minus the very very basics so I wasnt biased either.
Now if you will excuse me, I need to clear up my cloud account and defrag my drives
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Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!
I feel it would be best to table the Star Wars talk for a while, or until it has its own thread I dont want to bore others with our nerdy back and forth.
Saw The Arrival tonight...what a really cool movie. Really well made and loved the ending
I feel it would be best to table the Star Wars talk for a while, or until it has its own thread I dont want to bore others with our nerdy back and forth.
Saw The Arrival tonight...what a really cool movie. Really well made and loved the ending
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!
People are different. I thought the first half was interesting as characters were established. The second half was boring 'splosions, fan service, and the inevitable wrap up. I did like the "ground angle" shots of the storming of the beach, but from the standpoint of plot the second half is 4th grader stuff. That's fine, and SW is hardly what anybody would call a mental challenge, but it was a particularly dumb pastiche of CGI effects towards the end.
I don't know why people want to make this more than it is. Except for ep 4, which was genuinely interesting, it's a kids' movie franchise designed for cross-marketing. It's Frozen with more toys and fewer boobs. Sometimes it's done well (4, 5, 3.5, 6, 7 kinda) and sometimes it's crap (1 and I guess 2, 3) Enjoy it for what it is -- fluff.
People are different. I thought the first half was interesting as characters were established. The second half was boring 'splosions, fan service, and the inevitable wrap up. I did like the "ground angle" shots of the storming of the beach, but from the standpoint of plot the second half is 4th grader stuff. That's fine, and SW is hardly what anybody would call a mental challenge, but it was a particularly dumb pastiche of CGI effects towards the end.
I don't know why people want to make this more than it is. Except for ep 4, which was genuinely interesting, it's a kids' movie franchise designed for cross-marketing. It's Frozen with more toys and fewer boobs. Sometimes it's done well (4, 5, 3.5, 6, 7 kinda) and sometimes it's crap (1 and I guess 2, 3) Enjoy it for what it is -- fluff.
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Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!
Glory Road:
Typical Disney fare about the Texas Western team that started an all-black lineup against Kentucky. Facts go out the window, of course. It's okay as a movie/entertainment.
Once Upon A Time In Shanghai:
Chinese movie that has a laborer moving to Shanghai in the 1930s, trying to make an honest living, and ends up working with a gangster who opposes the other 4 bosses in the city who are open to Japanese involvement (that's a big no-no in Chinese culture at the time). Lots of MTV style editing in the fight scenes, the plot doesn't make a whole lot of sense (main character is against being a gangster, but he ends up supporting one) etc. Basically a time killer.
Glory Road:
Typical Disney fare about the Texas Western team that started an all-black lineup against Kentucky. Facts go out the window, of course. It's okay as a movie/entertainment.
Once Upon A Time In Shanghai:
Chinese movie that has a laborer moving to Shanghai in the 1930s, trying to make an honest living, and ends up working with a gangster who opposes the other 4 bosses in the city who are open to Japanese involvement (that's a big no-no in Chinese culture at the time). Lots of MTV style editing in the fight scenes, the plot doesn't make a whole lot of sense (main character is against being a gangster, but he ends up supporting one) etc. Basically a time killer.
Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!
If there was some genius developing super weapons for your enemy, why WOULDN'T you want him dead? Especially before you knew he was purposely designing in a huge flaw for you to exploit.
did the rebels know the weapon was fully functional when they ordered the assassination? I assume they thought he was key to the development and it would slow down progress if they eliminated him (not knowing it was too late).
If there was some genius developing super weapons for your enemy, why WOULDN'T you want him dead? Especially before you knew he was purposely designing in a huge flaw for you to exploit.
did the rebels know the weapon was fully functional when they ordered the assassination? I assume they thought he was key to the development and it would slow down progress if they eliminated him (not knowing it was too late).
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