Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate
I'm curious about that one. Got good reviews from Star Trib (Mpls paper).
I'm curious about that one. Got good reviews from Star Trib (Mpls paper).
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Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate
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Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate
My wife and I watched it last night as well. I'll be honest, I thought it was spectacular. The last 30-40 minutes of that movie were probably the best I've seen for that type of film.
My wife and I watched it last night as well. I'll be honest, I thought it was spectacular. The last 30-40 minutes of that movie were probably the best I've seen for that type of film.
Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate
To each his own. All I can remember from the last 30 min was the repeating of not talking to his one daughter, and talking to the priest multiple times. Didn't get anything from any of that, as you saw early on that he was estranged from his daughter and that he had no conscience about killing people. So the idea of trying to get some kind of forgiveness was laughable. Didn't get the point about burial vs internment- the only person that has actually "lived on" the longest has never been found- so it's kind of ironic that he wanted to make sure people found him, just to be another in a long line of people being ignored. Whereas the person who has been missing for almost 45 years lives in relative infamy.
The constant jumping around in time was very distracting, especially when the long presented line was more in the middle of the overall timeline than the end. And that long line seemed to make the story focus on that one event, which I don't think it was- although, it's hard to really tell.
In honesty, given the cast, it seems like the goal was to make the "best of" gangster movie. Which it failed, to me. Good that all of those guys got a paycheck later in life, I suppose.
To each his own. All I can remember from the last 30 min was the repeating of not talking to his one daughter, and talking to the priest multiple times. Didn't get anything from any of that, as you saw early on that he was estranged from his daughter and that he had no conscience about killing people. So the idea of trying to get some kind of forgiveness was laughable. Didn't get the point about burial vs internment- the only person that has actually "lived on" the longest has never been found- so it's kind of ironic that he wanted to make sure people found him, just to be another in a long line of people being ignored. Whereas the person who has been missing for almost 45 years lives in relative infamy.
The constant jumping around in time was very distracting, especially when the long presented line was more in the middle of the overall timeline than the end. And that long line seemed to make the story focus on that one event, which I don't think it was- although, it's hard to really tell.
In honesty, given the cast, it seems like the goal was to make the "best of" gangster movie. Which it failed, to me. Good that all of those guys got a paycheck later in life, I suppose.
Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate
I thought there were some good themes in the movie, the first being the time-worn theme of taking that first step down a bad path, until you get to a point where you have to, and are willing to, kill a friend. Then you are forced to ask yourself "why." Who were you doing it for, why were you doing it? The lies that people tell themselves that they are doing these acts for others.
And then the ending. Gangster movies end with everyone getting shot in the head, or hauled unceremoniously off to jail. But that's not how life works. Many of them die sitting in pants filled with their own feces, trying to figure out which pill they were supposed to take that day.
I remember seeing an interview with Henry Hill and one of his associates, a guy that at one time probably was his enemy. It was just two real old guys sitting there reminiscing and complaining about their arthritis and their diabetes and the fact that their kids don't come to see them. All the same things that any two guys sitting in a nursing home would complain about.
That's what I thought made The Irishman an honest film.
I thought there were some good themes in the movie, the first being the time-worn theme of taking that first step down a bad path, until you get to a point where you have to, and are willing to, kill a friend. Then you are forced to ask yourself "why." Who were you doing it for, why were you doing it? The lies that people tell themselves that they are doing these acts for others.
And then the ending. Gangster movies end with everyone getting shot in the head, or hauled unceremoniously off to jail. But that's not how life works. Many of them die sitting in pants filled with their own feces, trying to figure out which pill they were supposed to take that day.
I remember seeing an interview with Henry Hill and one of his associates, a guy that at one time probably was his enemy. It was just two real old guys sitting there reminiscing and complaining about their arthritis and their diabetes and the fact that their kids don't come to see them. All the same things that any two guys sitting in a nursing home would complain about.
That's what I thought made The Irishman an honest film.
Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate
Once Upon A Time In Hollywood. There are many things to like about this film, but overall I can't give it a full recommendation. Tarantino did a great job recreating 1969 Hollywood, the scene at the PB mansion was fantastic, as was the scene with Dalton interacting with the young female actor. Also Pitt and DiCaprio were wonderful among others. But there's essentially no plot/purpose, it felt like there were several segues cut during final editing that would have made for smoother storytelling, and I thought the Bruce Lee bit and the Manson crew scenes were nonsensical.
Once Upon A Time In Hollywood. There are many things to like about this film, but overall I can't give it a full recommendation. Tarantino did a great job recreating 1969 Hollywood, the scene at the PB mansion was fantastic, as was the scene with Dalton interacting with the young female actor. Also Pitt and DiCaprio were wonderful among others. But there's essentially no plot/purpose, it felt like there were several segues cut during final editing that would have made for smoother storytelling, and I thought the Bruce Lee bit and the Manson crew scenes were nonsensical.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate
I found a plot/purpose to it. And I thought the payoff was perhaps the greatest payoff ever in a Tarantino film. Kill Bill, and Inglorious ******** endings both fell flat for me but not this one. It's not as good as Hateful Eight for me cause the slow burn was not as good in this one, but the payoffs were similar.
I found a plot/purpose to it. And I thought the payoff was perhaps the greatest payoff ever in a Tarantino film. Kill Bill, and Inglorious ******** endings both fell flat for me but not this one. It's not as good as Hateful Eight for me cause the slow burn was not as good in this one, but the payoffs were similar.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate
Opinions vary. I highly recommend the movie and consider it one of Tarantino's best, which is a high bar.
1. Kill Bill 1-2
2. Hateful Eight
3. Pulp Fiction
4. Once Upon a Time
5. Reservoir Dogs
QT manages to be mentally stimulating but also accessibly entertaining and that's a very tough nut to make (Woody Allen does it with painful humor, QT does it with laughable gore). He's not for everybody. His movies are getting more experimental and less gimmicky, and they are getting deeper, which you'd expect from a maturing artist. He's a great example of what Bill Nye (not that one and not that one either) meant when he wrote "Wagner's music is better than it sounds."
Opinions vary. I highly recommend the movie and consider it one of Tarantino's best, which is a high bar.
1. Kill Bill 1-2
2. Hateful Eight
3. Pulp Fiction
4. Once Upon a Time
5. Reservoir Dogs
QT manages to be mentally stimulating but also accessibly entertaining and that's a very tough nut to make (Woody Allen does it with painful humor, QT does it with laughable gore). He's not for everybody. His movies are getting more experimental and less gimmicky, and they are getting deeper, which you'd expect from a maturing artist. He's a great example of what Bill Nye (not that one and not that one either) meant when he wrote "Wagner's music is better than it sounds."
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D
Deutsche Gopher Fan
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Hmmm, odd. I loved both kill bills
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate
I did too. I just found the ending to Kill Bill 2 a little cheesy.
I did too. I just found the ending to Kill Bill 2 a little cheesy.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate
Nah, I thought it was sweet. She's also probably the only character in any of his movies I actually root for rather than just watch, and I kinda get the impression that may be true for QT, too. Anyway, I thought it was satisfying and right, not mawkish.
The ending for Grindhouse OTOH is hilariously funny and perfect for the genre.
Nah, I thought it was sweet. She's also probably the only character in any of his movies I actually root for rather than just watch, and I kinda get the impression that may be true for QT, too. Anyway, I thought it was satisfying and right, not mawkish.
The ending for Grindhouse OTOH is hilariously funny and perfect for the genre.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate
Yes, the movie Deathproof hits the ending out of the park.
Yes, the movie Deathproof hits the ending out of the park.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate
The theater I was in gave that ending a standing, stomping ovation which is exactly how an exploitation move should end.
The theater I was in gave that ending a standing, stomping ovation which is exactly how an exploitation move should end.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate
I think the last half of the film would have been amazing if the first half didnt drag on so much. Cut a half hour from the film and it is up there with the best of Scorsese. As it is, it is on the second tier of his better films. (good but not great)
IMHO anyways.
I think the last half of the film would have been amazing if the first half didnt drag on so much. Cut a half hour from the film and it is up there with the best of Scorsese. As it is, it is on the second tier of his better films. (good but not great)
IMHO anyways.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate
I am NOT a Tarantino guy (to say I find him hit or miss is a vast understatement) but the guy knows how to make a film. Most of the time it just isnt my style. OATIH is an outstanding period piece with some of the best performances he has ever gotten from actors...the only problem was how he handled the Tate/Manson story. I get why he did it...I just wish he hadnt done it. The real life story is better than the crap happy ending he gave us. Dont get me wrong parts of it were awesome to watch (the flame thrower was outstanding!) but I just feel it that changing history wasnt needed.
I think I would have liked the story more if the Manson stuff was left out of it...or at least just a side story that never finishes. Tate can be in the film still, you just let her meet her fate after the movie ends. Getting rid of her tragedy kind of ruins her part of the story IMHO. Took the story from an A+ to an A- and likely never to watch again.
YMMV.
I am NOT a Tarantino guy (to say I find him hit or miss is a vast understatement) but the guy knows how to make a film. Most of the time it just isnt my style. OATIH is an outstanding period piece with some of the best performances he has ever gotten from actors...the only problem was how he handled the Tate/Manson story. I get why he did it...I just wish he hadnt done it. The real life story is better than the crap happy ending he gave us. Dont get me wrong parts of it were awesome to watch (the flame thrower was outstanding!) but I just feel it that changing history wasnt needed.
I think I would have liked the story more if the Manson stuff was left out of it...or at least just a side story that never finishes. Tate can be in the film still, you just let her meet her fate after the movie ends. Getting rid of her tragedy kind of ruins her part of the story IMHO. Took the story from an A+ to an A- and likely never to watch again.
YMMV.
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Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate
I understand that reaction but this is a director who kills Hitler in a Paris theatre. He's taking the suspension of disbelief of movies and calling its bluff. I like that and play along.
Tarantino is playing around with the whole idea of what a movie is the way Godard did. Typically filmmakers who do that run the risk of being called pretentious, particularly European ones, by people who feel threatened when a movie isn't the same paint by numbers stuff everybody does. QT is doing it in a very American way, not at all elitist, but really fun, and tremendously popular. The last really top notch filmmaker who had something new to say about filmmaking and was also popular was Hitchcock.
I appreciate the balls is takes to change the ending of the Manson murders, particularly in a place that takes itself as seriously as Hollywood and a generation that has utterly no sense of humor about itself in the Boomers. Yet the movie isn't a middle finger. It's still affectionate. The meandering you didn't like in the first half of the movie is exactly why it works -- it's getting you to dissolve into the scene. The whole sequence with Tate giddily going to the movie she's in, and the sequences of the characters just driving aimlessly in the city, are the movie's soul. The plot -- the action -- doesn't matter at all. The whole "a story has a beginning, middle, and end" is not important to what QT is doing so he just chucks it.
I understand that reaction but this is a director who kills Hitler in a Paris theatre. He's taking the suspension of disbelief of movies and calling its bluff. I like that and play along.
Tarantino is playing around with the whole idea of what a movie is the way Godard did. Typically filmmakers who do that run the risk of being called pretentious, particularly European ones, by people who feel threatened when a movie isn't the same paint by numbers stuff everybody does. QT is doing it in a very American way, not at all elitist, but really fun, and tremendously popular. The last really top notch filmmaker who had something new to say about filmmaking and was also popular was Hitchcock.
I appreciate the balls is takes to change the ending of the Manson murders, particularly in a place that takes itself as seriously as Hollywood and a generation that has utterly no sense of humor about itself in the Boomers. Yet the movie isn't a middle finger. It's still affectionate. The meandering you didn't like in the first half of the movie is exactly why it works -- it's getting you to dissolve into the scene. The whole sequence with Tate giddily going to the movie she's in, and the sequences of the characters just driving aimlessly in the city, are the movie's soul. The plot -- the action -- doesn't matter at all. The whole "a story has a beginning, middle, and end" is not important to what QT is doing so he just chucks it.
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ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate
Excellent analysis. I agree 100%.
Excellent analysis. I agree 100%.
WisconsinWildcard
The plural of anecdote is not data
Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate
No Django? I am one who really enjoys all of his movies so it is hard for me to rank them but that is one I have appreciated significantly especially on rewatching.
No Django? I am one who really enjoys all of his movies so it is hard for me to rank them but that is one I have appreciated significantly especially on rewatching.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate
Uh...you might want to re-read what I said. I never said OATIH meandered. I said the Irishmen was too long but that is it. My only problem with Once Upon a Time was the Manson stuff. The first 75% of the film I love. (the last 25% I love half of) I dont know what the heck you are going on about...how could I think the story meandered when I literally said the period piece stuff and the actors performances were great? I thought changing history hurt the story not the story itself. You gotta actually wait til someone says what you think they are saying before you can pontificate like that otherwise you sound like a Film School Dropout
My problem with Tarantino isnt his pretentiousness (though the pretentiousness of his sycophants is nauseating) I think the guy has one of the best minds out there. He and Scorsese are two of the best interviews on movies of all time. I just am not a fan of his style when he goes over the top. That is what most people seem to love about him but it just isnt me. I have never once said he sucks though or that I dont get what he is trying to do I just dont like it. That is what I always get when I say I dont worship say Kill Bill or Reservoir Dogs...you just dont get it!! No I do, I have heard him tell me all about it (which is fun as hell!) I just didnt like enjoy it that much. I am glad he is out there making films though and I hope he keeps doing it even if I dont like them. I am about as big a proponent of creative film making as there is...hence my hatred of Di$ney
(no I dont really hate them...I just find them boring and cookie cutter no matter the genre)
He did write one of my favorite films ever though...True Romance!
Uh...you might want to re-read what I said. I never said OATIH meandered. I said the Irishmen was too long but that is it. My only problem with Once Upon a Time was the Manson stuff. The first 75% of the film I love. (the last 25% I love half of) I dont know what the heck you are going on about...how could I think the story meandered when I literally said the period piece stuff and the actors performances were great? I thought changing history hurt the story not the story itself. You gotta actually wait til someone says what you think they are saying before you can pontificate like that otherwise you sound like a Film School Dropout
My problem with Tarantino isnt his pretentiousness (though the pretentiousness of his sycophants is nauseating) I think the guy has one of the best minds out there. He and Scorsese are two of the best interviews on movies of all time. I just am not a fan of his style when he goes over the top. That is what most people seem to love about him but it just isnt me. I have never once said he sucks though or that I dont get what he is trying to do I just dont like it. That is what I always get when I say I dont worship say Kill Bill or Reservoir Dogs...you just dont get it!! No I do, I have heard him tell me all about it (which is fun as hell!) I just didnt like enjoy it that much. I am glad he is out there making films though and I hope he keeps doing it even if I dont like them. I am about as big a proponent of creative film making as there is...hence my hatred of Di$ney
(no I dont really hate them...I just find them boring and cookie cutter no matter the genre)He did write one of my favorite films ever though...True Romance!
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Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate
I can read just fine.
Edit: No, I really can't. Hovey was talking about the Irishman.
I'm sorry, I assumed you were being wrong and stupid about QT the way you are routinely wrong and stupid about other movies by having the attention span of a 5-year old and by being brutally butt hurt when you can't understand things that are above you. Dunning-Kruger at The Movies. However, in this instance, you were being wrong and stupid in a different way. So, points for novelty!
Tarantino's alt-history shtick: it's OK. I thought it was much more effective in Inglorious Basterds. The magnitude of Hitler makes it so much more, I dunno, rash? outlandish? to rewrite history. Manson/Tate just isn't that important, so an alt treatment of an inconsequential event doesn't have the same impact. But I didn't think it detracted. I think I've sort of come to accept that QT does things like that like Lady Gaga wears steak pant suits. The press eats it up or something.
I can read just fine.
Edit: No, I really can't. Hovey was talking about the Irishman.
I'm sorry, I assumed you were being wrong and stupid about QT the way you are routinely wrong and stupid about other movies by having the attention span of a 5-year old and by being brutally butt hurt when you can't understand things that are above you. Dunning-Kruger at The Movies. However, in this instance, you were being wrong and stupid in a different way. So, points for novelty!
Tarantino's alt-history shtick: it's OK. I thought it was much more effective in Inglorious Basterds. The magnitude of Hitler makes it so much more, I dunno, rash? outlandish? to rewrite history. Manson/Tate just isn't that important, so an alt treatment of an inconsequential event doesn't have the same impact. But I didn't think it detracted. I think I've sort of come to accept that QT does things like that like Lady Gaga wears steak pant suits. The press eats it up or something.
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