Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

[Kepler]

Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

New Joker trailer: https://youtu.be/_pk-qMdR9Lo

Looks good to me. That's the tap in to the sad clown tradition I wanted to see.

Ledger's Joker just wanted to see the world burn and that was entertaining but sterile. I prefer the sad clown pushed over the edge who has An Important Moral Lesson in store for humanity. That's the guy I root for. You folks will just have to take your punishment -- you know what you did.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

I think the Phoenix version is tremendously appealing and I look forward to it.

 

[solovsfett]

Looks good to me. That's the tap in to the sad clown tradition I wanted to see.

Ledger's Joker just wanted to see the world burn and that was entertaining but sterile. I prefer the sad clown pushed over the edge who has An Important Moral Lesson in store for humanity. That's the guy I root for. You folks will just have to take your punishment -- you know what you did.

Yes! And iirc their are several DC comics that use that plot line. I need to re-read The Killing Joke because it may have been part of the plot of that book...it’s been 20 years since i’ve Read it.

 

[RaceBoarder]

Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

Why would he be? His IP address is the Philippines but he hasn't done anything to identify as a bot. If he does, use the report button and I am positive a moderator will respond as warranted.

Wut?

IDK. If it is a real person, I whole heartedly apologize. The posts just seem "off" if you read through them however.

They are all single sentence replies. Scary part is that they are sort of relevant to the discussion at hand. Like I said, they are "off" but somewhat coherent. Shows how far AI has come I guess

**returns to tin-foil castle**

 

[French Rage]

Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

IDK. If it is a real person, I whole heartedly apologize. The posts just seem "off" if you read through them however.

They are all single sentence replies. Scary part is that they are sort of relevant to the discussion at hand. Like I said, they are "off" but somewhat coherent. Shows how far AI has come I guess

**returns to tin-foil castle**

Listen, if simple-minded but still slightly-related posts got you banned as a bot, Drew would have been gone years ago.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

Umm... I'm intrigued by this trailer but it feels like this was written for Heath Ledger's Joker/Nolan's Batman Universe. It doesn't tie into the current DC Universe, and Joaquin Phoenix, while appearing to do a hell of a job in the scenes used for the trailer, just doesn't quite *feel* like Ledger. The winks and nods with the masks, suit styling, and Chicago-esque Gotham are just... *chef's kiss* though.

I think I'm gonna wait for HBO streaming unfortunately. Unless I can be persuaded otherwise with follow up trailers.

It literally has zero to do with Ledger's Joker. It takes place in 1981 Ledger's Joker wouldnt have even been born yet. Nolan's story is done and will never be touched upon again. I doubt Phoenix's Joker even survives the film.

This is a standalone story that is meant to be a character study in how someone like that could come about. He isnt scarred or burned by acid...he is just a guy who completely breaks with reality because society is destroying him. Outside of the "failed comedian" part (which is one of like 12 origins for the Joker only used in really one story and has always been a "possible origin" as the Joker lies about it all the time and DC never wants there to really be one) and the names of characters it has nothing to do with anything comic related or any current stories in universe. This is Todd Phillips wanting to do Taxi Driver only instead he is using it to show one man's decent into madness.

The nice thing is the budget was almost nothing...and it is making the film festival rounds and getting lots of awards hype. Phillips has tried to get WB to do more of these one off character studies for this genre, and if this does well I cant see why they wouldnt.

 

[RaceBoarder]

Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

It literally has zero to do with Ledger's Joker. It takes place in 1981 Ledger's Joker wouldnt have even been born yet. Nolan's story is done and will never be touched upon again. I doubt Phoenix's Joker even survives the film.

This is a standalone story that is meant to be a character study in how someone like that could come about. He isnt scarred or burned by acid...he is just a guy who completely breaks with reality because society is destroying him. Outside of the "failed comedian" part (which is one of like 12 origins for the Joker only used in really one story and has always been a "possible origin" as the Joker lies about it all the time and DC never wants there to really be one) and the names of characters it has nothing to do with anything comic related or any current stories in universe. This is Todd Phillips wanting to do Taxi Driver only instead he is using it to show one man's decent into madness.

The nice thing is the budget was almost nothing...and it is making the film festival rounds and getting lots of awards hype. Phillips has tried to get WB to do more of these one off character studies for this genre, and if this does well I cant see why they wouldnt.

I want this to have minimal references to DC comics if at all possible. I want this to be a dissection of just a single character. I think Joaquin and Todd Phillips are on the right track with what has been shown so far. I feel that referencing anything from the Batman mythos (outside of general, large scale references like taking place in Gotham City) would be a detractor. You can maybe put a rundown ACE CHEMICAL billboard somewhere in the background, but even those kind of nods need to be one-off. I want this to be Juaquin's role to run with and that's it.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

I want this to have minimal references to DC comics if at all possible. I want this to be a dissection of just a single character. I think Joaquin and Todd Phillips are on the right track with what has been shown so far. I feel that referencing anything from the Batman mythos (outside of general, large scale references like taking place in Gotham City) would be a detractor. You can maybe put a rundown ACE CHEMICAL billboard somewhere in the background, but even those kind of nods need to be one-off. I want this to be Juaquin's role to run with and that's it.

One hundred percent agree. The clown car comic movie approach is over. The most interesting movies now are the one-star movies. Maybe they always have been. Nolan didn’t do much of the Assemble! stuff that should be buried with Stark (spoiler alert).

Find an interesting character and explore it.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

I want this to have minimal references to DC comics if at all possible. I want this to be a dissection of just a single character.

I agree with this approach. And it is a way to pull comic book movies out of the mouthbreathing Comic Book Guy set and join them to larger Americana culture. The Joker is a cool character if done right. Comic book characterization is our Comedia del Arte (if that makes you scared and angry then it's our pro wrestling). Simple emotional themes embodied in characters who are then put into interesting configurations. Stan Lee is our Sophocles.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

Good Lord. Sometimes a movie is just a movie and not a film.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

Good Lord. Sometimes a movie is just a movie and not a film.

Like I said, if it frightens and angers you...

Just cuz alphas can find higher meanings doesn't mean gammas can't be happy with theirs. Don't feel threatened. There's teevee for you tonight! Maybe some sportsball!

 

[aparch]

It literally has zero to do with Ledger's Joker. It takes place in 1981 Ledger's Joker wouldnt have even been born yet. Nolan's story is done and will never be touched upon again. I doubt Phoenix's Joker even survives the film.

That's what I get for not following the announcements. I just remembered Leto was p*ssed he wasn't in the origin story. I didnt know that it was *completely* unconnected from the DCU. I assumed it was in the vein of Wonder Woman and Aquaman.

Like I said, Joaquin was outstanding in this trailer. It just, to me, felt like an origin story for Ledger's Joker, and my brain kept trying to link the two. Maybe its sequel fatigue, but I just need to tell myself that it's *another* reboot of the character instead.

I didn't realize this was the final trailer, and there was a teaser trailer earlier. I will say this does look d*mn good but it just doesn't make me want to run out an see it in theaters.

 

[RaceBoarder]

Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

Good Lord. Sometimes a movie is just a movie and not a film.

I think you have our perspective 180* off of what most of our perceptions here actually are. Many of us have taken this stance with many "popcorn" films over the years. We all have those that we push for. Just go back and read over the various reviews we all throw out there. Everyone has at least once said "I like _____ cause I can go in, sip some pop, scarf a bag of popcorn, and not think for 2 hours". I've taken that stance recently with movies like Godzilla: KotM and Hobbs & Shaw.

With Joker, pretty much everyone wants a "thinking man's movie". People want to come out of it and have discussions and analysis come about afterwards. Each kind of movie has its place.

 

[Jimjamesak]

I agree with this approach. And it is a way to pull comic book movies out of the mouthbreathing Comic Book Guy set and join them to larger Americana culture. The Joker is a cool character if done right. Comic book characterization is our Comedia del Arte (if that makes you scared and angry then it's our pro wrestling). Simple emotional themes embodied in characters who are then put into interesting configurations. Stan Lee is our Sophocles.

Jazz, comic books, and pro wrestling are the three American contributions to art.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

There is an article in the LA Times with Phillips about the film and he breaks it down best. This is HIS interpretation of the character (which is why Phoenix did it...this is something not done before and it will almost certainly be his only turn as the character) and the great thing is if you like it it works and if not there will be another version of Joker that comes out in a Batman film sooner or later. There is room in the genre for all types of films whether they are low budget character studies like this and Logan or stuff like Aquaman or Avengers that is rather weak on story but big on action and fun. (some can even be both ) Everything has its value.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

Jazz, comic books, and pro wrestling are the three American contributions to art.

Pro wrestling is not American. It came from Europe with German and Slavic immigrants. There are pro wrestling clubs in Eastern Europe that go back 150 years and they follow the same face/heel scripts.

Comic books began in Switzerland but the superhero comic book industry is American.

I claim jazz, hip hop, and graffiti as the three American contributions to art. All stolen from the blacks and monetized by the whites, as one does.

The three cultural contributions of white America are fast food, cars, and the sitcom. We would also have accepted suburbs.

 

[aparch]

Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

I loved Logan. And the last X-Men film I saw was X2.

I'm warming up to Joker.

 

[burd]

Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

Pro wrestling is not American. It came from Europe with German and Slavic immigrants. There are pro wrestling clubs in Eastern Europe that go back 150 years and they follow the same face/heel scripts.

Comic books began in Switzerland but the superhero comic book industry is American.

I claim jazz, hip hop, and graffiti as the three American contributions to art. All stolen from the blacks and monetized by the whites, as one does.

The three cultural contributions of white America are fast food, cars, and the sitcom. We would also have accepted suburbs.

Aren't drawings on cave walls graffiti?

 

[unofan]

Aren't drawings on cave walls graffiti?

Ancient Rome for sure had graffiti, doubtless Egypt did before them, and yeah have drawings before that.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

Like I said, if it frightens and angers you...

Just cuz alphas can find higher meanings doesn't mean gammas can't be happy with theirs. Don't feel threatened. There's teevee for you tonight! Maybe some sportsball!

Get over yourself Kep. I enjoy high art on screen and make sure to mix it in into my viewing queue quite often. I also can't remember the last time I watched a sporting event outside of the occasional Twins highlights, and the last full event start to finish was either a Gophers hockey game or the MN HS tournament both of which were in March. Also network TV is not my thing. About the only "junk" TV I ever watch is Survivor and cooking shows, which for some reason I'm forever a sucker for.

Just because I lampoon you doesn't mean I don't get it.

I think you have our perspective 180* off of what most of our perceptions here actually are.

With Joker, pretty much everyone wants a "thinking man's movie".

That's exactly the impression I have, and not only don't I have a problem with it I applaud the choice. As I said I look forward to the release.