Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: MLB 2018.1: ...And The Nationals Will Not Make It Out of the First Round
Don't smile; I dare you. Stay for the Comments, too.
Don't smile; I dare you. Stay for the Comments, too.
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MLB 2018.1: ...And The Nationals Will Not Make It Out of the First Round
- Thread starter MissThundercat
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Re: MLB 2018.1: ...And The Nationals Will Not Make It Out of the First Round
Buck pulls his pitcher before the hitter finishes his HR trot....
https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2018/5...mookie-betts-home-run-pitcher-orioles-red-sox
Buck pulls his pitcher before the hitter finishes his HR trot....
https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2018/5...mookie-betts-home-run-pitcher-orioles-red-sox
TovarishchLisa
(Comrade Fox)
Re: MLB 2018.1: ...And The Nationals Will Not Make It Out of the First Round
I feel like he's gone after the year. Whether it's resignation, retirement, or firing I don't know
I feel like he's gone after the year. Whether it's resignation, retirement, or firing I don't know
MinnesotaNorthStar
Minding the gap
Voluntold to retire, probably...
Re: MLB 2018.1: ...And The Nationals Will Not Make It Out of the First Round
Usually how it works.
Usually how it works.
SonofSouthie
Misanthrope
Re: MLB 2018.1: ...And The Nationals Will Not Make It Out of the First Round
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/...on-baseball/gZx5qyDTYFmhCb53KDQ3dI/story.html
Good article on how the O's went from a once proud organization to a clownshow.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/...on-baseball/gZx5qyDTYFmhCb53KDQ3dI/story.html
Hammer
We'll be back.
It’s paywalled but can be summed up very quickly:
Edward Bennett Williams died in 1988 after setting up the construction of Camden Yards, the nicest Little League ballpark in America. Peter Angelos then bought the franchise.
SonofSouthie
Misanthrope
Re: MLB 2018.1: ...And The Nationals Will Not Make It Out of the First Round
The most dysfunctional organization in baseball should be one of the crown jewels of the sport. It resides in a strong baseball city that’s rich with tradition and has an iconic ballpark and is in a climate made for summertime baseball.
So why are the Baltimore Orioles such a mess?
You won’t get many varying responses when you ask people in high places around baseball. The Orioles’ problem is team ownership, and perhaps it always has been during the Angelos family’s run. Word is that Peter Angelos is not in the best of health and that his sons, John and Lou, have taken over running the team. They are said to be listening to vice president of baseball operations Brady Anderson, as Anderson has long been friends with the sons.
There have been reports that general manager Dan Duquette has been “thrown out of the cockpit,” but no one has any idea who’s flying the plane. What other organization would allow the manager (Buck Showalter) to have more power than the GM?
“I think Dan has more respect among the general managers in baseball given what he’s had to contend with over there with the ownership,” said one National League team’s president of baseball operations. “He’s had successful winning programs in spite of his bosses. All of us in the game understand the challenges he’s faced and he’s handled it with dignity and grace.”
Instead of giving Duquette the keys and giving him more authority to do his job, Orioles ownership has given him nothing. They even blocked him from becoming Blue Jays team president.
The Orioles’ play has been abysmal, leading to a 10-27 record entering Friday. There’s talent on the roster — Manny Machado, Jonathan Schoop, Trey Mancini, Chris Davis, and Adam Jones — and Andrew Cashner and Alex Cobb were added this past offseason to help the rotation, but the team has been second-rate on the field.
It was ownership, not Duquette, that ordered the $161 million re-signing of Davis in January 2016, when that money should have been invested in a front-line pitcher.
In most organizations, the GM would be questioning the effectiveness of his manager — whether he’s an iconic skipper like Showalter or not — when his team is off to a terrible start. There’s no doubt that Showalter has been one of the best in the game for so many years. He’s always gotten the best from his players, and for that he earned his stripes. But since the 2016 playoffs — when he decided not to use Zach Britton in the wild-card loss to Toronto — Showalter has been in a downturn.
Now he’s in the final year of his deal, same as Duquette, Machado, Jones, and Britton. The Orioles must transition into rebuilding mode with the likelihood of losing Machado to free agency if he isn’t traded beforehand.
As we sit here in May, there have not yet been serious trade talks involving Machado. Duquette opened talks last offseason and heard from a few interested parties, but decided not to pull the trigger. We’re taking a wild guess that ownership put the kibosh on it.
So how the Orioles handle Machado going forward is going to be interesting, because it will be telling as to how ownership wants Duquette to proceed.
Such is Duquette’s plight these days, but it wasn’t all that different than when Frank Wren, Jim Beattie, and Mike Flanagan ran the Orioles before him. The people in charge often face the word “no” when trying to accomplish anything resembling a baseball operation. The Orioles have small scouting staffs and, amazingly in this day and age, no international pool money to sign foreign players.
As one former employee said, “Angelos always listens to someone other than the GM. It can be a broadcaster, a writer, someone from another team. It’s always been a tough place to work for a GM.”
Duquette doesn’t have the normal powers that a GM and head of the baseball division should have. If Duquette wanted to fire Showalter for the team’s poor start and poor season a year ago, he would have to ask the Angelos family and they would likely take forever to make the call.
Baltimore’s coaching staff has also come under fire as the pitchers haven’t improved under Roger McDowell and the hitters aren’t excelling under Scott Coolbaugh.
Duquette has declined comment on his job situation, but his colleagues understand what he’s facing. This is an organization — and we use that word loosely — that won’t delve into the international market, when some of the best players in baseball are coming from outside the United States. It has one the smallest scouting staffs and administrative staffs in baseball. It has a small analytics staff.
This is the Baltimore Orioles, for goodness sake. The team of Brooks Robinson, Frank Robinson, Jim Palmer, Eddie Murray, Boog Powell, Paul Blair, Mark Belanger, Dave Johnson, Earl Weaver, and Cal Ripken Jr.
Get your act together.
The most dysfunctional organization in baseball should be one of the crown jewels of the sport. It resides in a strong baseball city that’s rich with tradition and has an iconic ballpark and is in a climate made for summertime baseball.
So why are the Baltimore Orioles such a mess?
You won’t get many varying responses when you ask people in high places around baseball. The Orioles’ problem is team ownership, and perhaps it always has been during the Angelos family’s run. Word is that Peter Angelos is not in the best of health and that his sons, John and Lou, have taken over running the team. They are said to be listening to vice president of baseball operations Brady Anderson, as Anderson has long been friends with the sons.
There have been reports that general manager Dan Duquette has been “thrown out of the cockpit,” but no one has any idea who’s flying the plane. What other organization would allow the manager (Buck Showalter) to have more power than the GM?
“I think Dan has more respect among the general managers in baseball given what he’s had to contend with over there with the ownership,” said one National League team’s president of baseball operations. “He’s had successful winning programs in spite of his bosses. All of us in the game understand the challenges he’s faced and he’s handled it with dignity and grace.”
Instead of giving Duquette the keys and giving him more authority to do his job, Orioles ownership has given him nothing. They even blocked him from becoming Blue Jays team president.
The Orioles’ play has been abysmal, leading to a 10-27 record entering Friday. There’s talent on the roster — Manny Machado, Jonathan Schoop, Trey Mancini, Chris Davis, and Adam Jones — and Andrew Cashner and Alex Cobb were added this past offseason to help the rotation, but the team has been second-rate on the field.
It was ownership, not Duquette, that ordered the $161 million re-signing of Davis in January 2016, when that money should have been invested in a front-line pitcher.
In most organizations, the GM would be questioning the effectiveness of his manager — whether he’s an iconic skipper like Showalter or not — when his team is off to a terrible start. There’s no doubt that Showalter has been one of the best in the game for so many years. He’s always gotten the best from his players, and for that he earned his stripes. But since the 2016 playoffs — when he decided not to use Zach Britton in the wild-card loss to Toronto — Showalter has been in a downturn.
Now he’s in the final year of his deal, same as Duquette, Machado, Jones, and Britton. The Orioles must transition into rebuilding mode with the likelihood of losing Machado to free agency if he isn’t traded beforehand.
As we sit here in May, there have not yet been serious trade talks involving Machado. Duquette opened talks last offseason and heard from a few interested parties, but decided not to pull the trigger. We’re taking a wild guess that ownership put the kibosh on it.
So how the Orioles handle Machado going forward is going to be interesting, because it will be telling as to how ownership wants Duquette to proceed.
Such is Duquette’s plight these days, but it wasn’t all that different than when Frank Wren, Jim Beattie, and Mike Flanagan ran the Orioles before him. The people in charge often face the word “no” when trying to accomplish anything resembling a baseball operation. The Orioles have small scouting staffs and, amazingly in this day and age, no international pool money to sign foreign players.
As one former employee said, “Angelos always listens to someone other than the GM. It can be a broadcaster, a writer, someone from another team. It’s always been a tough place to work for a GM.”
Duquette doesn’t have the normal powers that a GM and head of the baseball division should have. If Duquette wanted to fire Showalter for the team’s poor start and poor season a year ago, he would have to ask the Angelos family and they would likely take forever to make the call.
Baltimore’s coaching staff has also come under fire as the pitchers haven’t improved under Roger McDowell and the hitters aren’t excelling under Scott Coolbaugh.
Duquette has declined comment on his job situation, but his colleagues understand what he’s facing. This is an organization — and we use that word loosely — that won’t delve into the international market, when some of the best players in baseball are coming from outside the United States. It has one the smallest scouting staffs and administrative staffs in baseball. It has a small analytics staff.
This is the Baltimore Orioles, for goodness sake. The team of Brooks Robinson, Frank Robinson, Jim Palmer, Eddie Murray, Boog Powell, Paul Blair, Mark Belanger, Dave Johnson, Earl Weaver, and Cal Ripken Jr.
Get your act together.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: MLB 2018.1: ...And The Nationals Will Not Make It Out of the First Round
Teams that I feel ought to field perennial title challengers:
Orioles
Royals
A's
Pirates
Reds
Dodgers
Teams that I feel ought to perennially suck:
Rangers
Indians
Angels
Astros
Padres
Braves
I'll bet you can tell when I grew up.
Teams that I feel ought to field perennial title challengers:
Orioles
Royals
A's
Pirates
Reds
Dodgers
Teams that I feel ought to perennially suck:
Rangers
Indians
Angels
Astros
Padres
Braves
I'll bet you can tell when I grew up.
Last edited:
JF_Gophers
2147483647
You forgot the guy in the middle (Eli Jacobs) who, I believe, went bankrupt.
Last edited:
Hammer
We'll be back.
Fine, but Angelos has piddle-****ed around with this franchise for the better part of two decades. He’s had more than plenty of time to clean up any and all messes.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: MLB 2018.1: ...And The Nationals Will Not Make It Out of the First Round
Rec'd.
Never ?
Rec'd.
Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: MLB 2018.1: ...And The Nationals Will Not Make It Out of the First Round
Best/worst teams from the 70's? Must have intentionally left off the Yankmees.
As a Twins fan growing up I'll be honest my recollections of them from that era were: Rod Carew, my brother the bat boy and Calvin Griffith continually trading/giving away the best Twins players for nothing or never bringing anyone in worth a ****. And it sure seemed like there were a lot of L. Surprisingly upon review they actually had the 10th best Win% of the decade although due to a complete lack of playoffs success (sounds all to familiar) and playing in the shadow of the ALE I wouldn't have put them in your top list either.
I'm sure there's a quick way to turn this into a table but....
Team W L AVE WIN% Sum of GB
Cincinnati Reds 773 514 60.1% 44
Baltimore Orioles 944 656 59.0% 13.5
Pittsburgh Pirates 916 685 56.9% 15
Los Angeles Dodgers 910 701 56.5% -53.5
Cincinanti Reds 180 143 55.7% -12.5
Boston Red Sox 895 714 55.6% -80.5
New York Yankees 892 715 55.5% -73
Kansas City Royals 851 760 52.8% -79
Oakland Athletics 838 772 52.1% -67.5
Minnesota Twins 812 794 50.6% -122
Philadelphia Phillies 812 801 50.3% -107.5
St. Louis Cardinals 800 813 49.6% -135
Houston Astros 793 817 49.3% -187.5
San Francisco Giants 794 818 49.2% -186.5
Detroit Tigers 789 820 49.0% -190.5
Chicago Cubs 785 827 48.7% -149.5
California Angels 781 831 48.5% -162
Texas Rangers 614 672 47.7% -131.5
New York Mets 763 850 47.3% -170.5
Chicago White Sox 752 853 46.9% -190.5
Montreal Expos 748 862 46.5% -185.5
Cleveland Indians 737 866 46.0% -240
Milwaukee Brewers 738 873 45.8% -231.5
Atlanta Braves 725 883 45.0% -254.5
San Diego Padres 667 942 42.1% -290
Washington Senators 133 188 41.4% -76.5
Seattle Mariners 187 297 38.6% -94
Toronto Blue Jays 166 318 34.3% -136
Teams that I feel ought to field perennial title challengers:
Orioles
Royals
A's
Pirates
Reds
Dodgers
Teams that I feel ought to perennially suck:
Rangers
Indians
Angels
Astros
Padres
Braves
I'll bet you can tell when I grew up.
Best/worst teams from the 70's? Must have intentionally left off the Yankmees.
As a Twins fan growing up I'll be honest my recollections of them from that era were: Rod Carew, my brother the bat boy and Calvin Griffith continually trading/giving away the best Twins players for nothing or never bringing anyone in worth a ****. And it sure seemed like there were a lot of L. Surprisingly upon review they actually had the 10th best Win% of the decade although due to a complete lack of playoffs success (sounds all to familiar) and playing in the shadow of the ALE I wouldn't have put them in your top list either.
I'm sure there's a quick way to turn this into a table but....
Team W L AVE WIN% Sum of GB
Cincinnati Reds 773 514 60.1% 44
Baltimore Orioles 944 656 59.0% 13.5
Pittsburgh Pirates 916 685 56.9% 15
Los Angeles Dodgers 910 701 56.5% -53.5
Cincinanti Reds 180 143 55.7% -12.5
Boston Red Sox 895 714 55.6% -80.5
New York Yankees 892 715 55.5% -73
Kansas City Royals 851 760 52.8% -79
Oakland Athletics 838 772 52.1% -67.5
Minnesota Twins 812 794 50.6% -122
Philadelphia Phillies 812 801 50.3% -107.5
St. Louis Cardinals 800 813 49.6% -135
Houston Astros 793 817 49.3% -187.5
San Francisco Giants 794 818 49.2% -186.5
Detroit Tigers 789 820 49.0% -190.5
Chicago Cubs 785 827 48.7% -149.5
California Angels 781 831 48.5% -162
Texas Rangers 614 672 47.7% -131.5
New York Mets 763 850 47.3% -170.5
Chicago White Sox 752 853 46.9% -190.5
Montreal Expos 748 862 46.5% -185.5
Cleveland Indians 737 866 46.0% -240
Milwaukee Brewers 738 873 45.8% -231.5
Atlanta Braves 725 883 45.0% -254.5
San Diego Padres 667 942 42.1% -290
Washington Senators 133 188 41.4% -76.5
Seattle Mariners 187 297 38.6% -94
Toronto Blue Jays 166 318 34.3% -136
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: MLB 2018.1: ...And The Nationals Will Not Make It Out of the First Round
My view of what is Right and Proper was forged between 1972 and 1974 (ages 9-11). Everything since then is just temporary weirdness.
I guess KC comes later. I think of the Yankees as a "naturally" mediocre team. These things are set when you are about 10 and you never shake them.
My view of what is Right and Proper was forged between 1972 and 1974 (ages 9-11). Everything since then is just temporary weirdness.
Code:
1972 Detroit Oakland Pittsburgh Cincinnati
1973 Baltimore Oakland New York Cincinnati
1974 Baltimore Oakland Pittsburgh Los AngelesI guess KC comes later. I think of the Yankees as a "naturally" mediocre team. These things are set when you are about 10 and you never shake them.
Last edited:
TovarishchLisa
(Comrade Fox)
Re: MLB 2018.1: ...And The Nationals Will Not Make It Out of the First Round
Second game in a row the A's have had a starter go out early with an injury. Triggs went 2 1/3 yesterday before he had some sort of nerve pain that forced him out, today Anderson goes an inning and strains his shoulder.
Second game in a row the A's have had a starter go out early with an injury. Triggs went 2 1/3 yesterday before he had some sort of nerve pain that forced him out, today Anderson goes an inning and strains his shoulder.
TovarishchLisa
(Comrade Fox)
Re: MLB 2018.1: ...And The Nationals Will Not Make It Out of the First Round
In their first two games against the Blue Jays, A’s starters have combined to go 3.1 innings. The A’s have won both games.
In their first two games against the Blue Jays, A’s starters have combined to go 3.1 innings. The A’s have won both games.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Teams that I feel ought to field perennial title challengers:
Orioles
Royals
A's
Pirates
Reds
Dodgers
Teams that I feel ought to perennially suck:
Rangers
Indians
Angels
Astros
Padres
Braves
I'll bet you can tell when I grew up.
Inshalla
aparch
Acetaminamerican
Re: MLB 2018.1: ...And The Nationals Will Not Make It Out of the First Round
'Make Baseball Fun Again', they said, just 'not too much fun.'
Rob Manfred is trying to Roger Goodell the MLB...
'Make Baseball Fun Again', they said, just 'not too much fun.'
Rob Manfred is trying to Roger Goodell the MLB...
TovarishchLisa
(Comrade Fox)
Re: MLB 2018.1: ...And The Nationals Will Not Make It Out of the First Round
A's take at least 3 from the Jays, going for the sweep tomorrow. Win today ensured a winning 10-game road trip!
Clutch grand slam by Pinder!
A's take at least 3 from the Jays, going for the sweep tomorrow. Win today ensured a winning 10-game road trip!
Clutch grand slam by Pinder!
- Status