Minnesota Women's Hockey Off-Season 2015: #BASK

[KTDC]

Re: Minnesota Women's Hockey Off-Season 2015: #BASK

Hmmm, has Miss Kessell been written off?

Written off is a little strong for me, but I am assuming she won't be back.

I have a % in my head of how likely I think it is that she will return. It's greater than zero but not high.

 

[OldDave]

Re: Minnesota Women's Hockey Off-Season 2015: #BASK

Agree with this 100% and with the sentiments regarding the significance of that advantage per the impact on the teams success throughout the last four years. I made the very same observation to fellow GWH fan at the championship game. Reach is a huge advantage when it comes to gathering up passes that aren't right on the mark as well. Particularly valuable at / near the blueline on offense.

I went looking briefly, but couldn't find any physical / height info for Marshall or Robinson. The discussion made me curious about their stature.

I also agree with the sentiment that height gives the D an advantage (although I suspect strength is the real advantage). At the time they committed, Marshall was listed as 5' 7" and Robinson was 5' 10". Don't know if there has been any growth since then...

 

[bluffrinkrat]

Re: Minnesota Women's Hockey Off-Season 2015: #BASK

I love lists so....

Number 1 Reasons Why:

Gophers record the past 4 years.....Tall, stellar defensive corps.

Undefeated season in 2013.....Noora Raty.

Winning Nattys in 04 and 05.....Greatest line in the history of women's hockey.

Winning in 2000.....Wasn't there, wouldn't be prudent to speculate, but, Killewald and Muzerall?

 

[FiveHoleFrenzy]

Re: Minnesota Women's Hockey Off-Season 2015: #BASK

Just one for Hauser. Travis Weber was in goal in '03. I agree with everything else you said though. It's tough to be a goalie, especially some nights at Mariucci if you were Adam Hauser. At least he got some redemption in the Maine game. I still have his photo from the Star Tribune on the wall in the hockey room showing him throwing his stick in the air at the end of the game. Maybe as a reminder anyone can be redeemed or maybe I'm a little masochistic. He was a trial some nights.

A trip down memory lane with Hauser in 2002 showing the highs and lows he had in the Frozen Four against Michigan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDwWQJPlZrY

 

[pokechecker]

Re: Minnesota Women's Hockey Off-Season 2015: #BASK

on the flip side, forwards are getting taller
that's probably the main thing, how do your D match up to the opponents F
and your F to their D

I noticed many of the NCAA tourney opposing D, especially the "better" ones were small, some only 5-2

 

[ne7minder]

Re: Minnesota Women's Hockey Off-Season 2015: #BASK

I noticed many of the NCAA tourney opposing D, especially the "better" ones were small, some only 5-2

I felt bad for a couple of them. I think it was RIT that had one I don't think was 5' in skates! Saw the softball team play NU this weekend & they had a player listed as 5'0" but she was a good foot smaller than several players listed as less than 6' so my guess is she was 4'10" or so. She pinch hit & I assumed she would walk - I wouldn't want to try to hit that micro strike zone! But she did end up with a couple of strikes before grounding out.

I am very grateful that at least womens sports still has room for 'normal' kids. I do not believe Mike Antonovich could survive in todays game & that would be a shame because there was a lot of skill in that small package.

 

[KTDC]

Re: Minnesota Women's Hockey Off-Season 2015: #BASK

I felt bad for a couple of them. I think it was RIT that had one I don't think was 5' in skates! Saw the softball team play NU this weekend & they had a player listed as 5'0" but she was a good foot smaller than several players listed as less than 6' so my guess is she was 4'10" or so. She pinch hit & I assumed she would walk - I wouldn't want to try to hit that micro strike zone! But she did end up with a couple of strikes before grounding out.

I am very grateful that at least womens sports still has room for 'normal' kids. I do not believe Mike Antonovich could survive in todays game & that would be a shame because there was a lot of skill in that small package.

This

 

[ne7minder]

Re: Minnesota Women's Hockey Off-Season 2015: #BASK

Winning Nattys in 04 and 05.....Greatest line in the history of women's hockey.

Winning in 2000.....Wasn't there, wouldn't be prudent to speculate, but, Killewald and Muzerall?

04-05 YES! Although I would love to be able to see Kessel-Brandt-Menefee one more season, I think they could move into first place.

We saw 2000 & the Gophers had the best lines. Killewald was top notch & Muzzy did shine but that was a superior team. I'm old enough to remember when the boys state tourney could be won by a team with 1 great line (years earlier it could be won with one great player - girls hockey is getting to that 'line' stage now). In 2k MN had one great line & one line better than anyone elses 2nd.

EDIT: I see questions about Amanda's return. AS much As I would love to see her play again if I were her dad I would kick her butt cheeks up around her ears if she said she would play again. You only get one brain and there are plenty of good reasons to lose it but hockey is not one of them. Given the recovery time for this set of concussions there are no sports events worth that much risk.

 

[bluffrinkrat]

Re: Minnesota Women's Hockey Off-Season 2015: #BASK

So Hauser was all over the place in the Michigan game. If I've got this right, he avoids a "full Adam Hauser" by misplaying the puck with his glove hand onto the Michigan player's stick who then shoots at the open net only to have Hauser dive across the goal mouth and make an unbelievable save with his glove. No wonder he drove the fans crazy at Mariucci. The second Michigan goal was a simple "Hauser." Correct? Thanks for the link, I think.

At the end of each season when the men lose, I pull down a DVD of the Maine or the New Hampshire games and it helps ease the pain and the Gophers always win.

 

[ARM]

Re: Minnesota Women's Hockey Off-Season 2015: #BASK

I agree that height is a great asset for a defenseman; I just wouldn't rank it as high as some do. Consider players like Mira and Baylee. They were excellent defensemen by the time they graduated, but they weren't anywhere near as effective when they first arrived at the "U", even though they were already tall. Confidence is another trait that appears to be just as important as size. Might be a chicken-egg thing, but once those two gained some, their games took off. Reach comes in particularly handy after a D gets beat, because it allows her to recover and still disrupt the play. I've also watched great D who compensated for a lack of height and reach by not getting beat in the first place. All else being equal, sure I'd like height. But size is just one reason why someone like Stecklein is great. More importantly, she almost always makes the right play. When a tall defenseman makes an ill-advised pass through the slot, she just has a higher vantage point for the opposition's scoring chance that results.

As for brooky, he and I have watched enough games together where the fact that a defenseman was tall didn't necessarily leave us with a peaceful easy feeling.

 

[ARM]

Re: Minnesota Women's Hockey Off-Season 2015: #BASK

Winning Nattys in 04 and 05.....Greatest line in the history of women's hockey.

Winning in 2000.....Wasn't there, wouldn't be prudent to speculate, but, Killewald and Muzerall?

There have been a lot of great lines, although I haven't seen any that were more productive than Wendell between Darwitz and Stephens. Harvard had some very nice lines, but the Wendell line was able to maintain its scoring pace against top competition. One big difference between those teams and the previous two years is that Horak played better in the postseason, just like Räty and Leveille did once they became upperclassmen. In 2005, the Gophers also had the advantage of what was the top power play in NCAA history until the 2013 Gophers came along. With the top line augmented by Wall's blasts from the blue line and Ross screening and cleaning up garbage, they were tough to stop.

We saw 2000 & the Gophers had the best lines. Killewald was top notch & Muzzy did shine but that was a superior team. I'm old enough to remember when the boys state tourney could be won by a team with 1 great line (years earlier it could be won with one great player - girls hockey is getting to that 'line' stage now). In 2k MN had one great line & one line better than anyone elses 2nd.

I don't know that the Gophers had the best line in 2000. Teams like UMD and Harvard were very good up front. I thought Minnesota was just deep overall. Ambria Thomas was a very underrated player, and her line with Slominski and Engstrom was probably more solid than the top scoring line with Muzerall, Curtin, and Kukowski. The blue line was also strong, led by Courtney Kennedy, who would finish in the top three in the Kazmaier the following season, and Winny Brodt. That team was most similar to the 2011-2012 Gophers I'd say if I was going to compare it to another Minnesota championship team. Ironically, Minnesota may have been more talented in 1998-99 when it had Schmidgall and Ralph. Curtin was really the only impact player added, but the big difference was more experience through the roster.

 

[bluffrinkrat]

Re: Minnesota Women's Hockey Off-Season 2015: #BASK

I think Mike Antonovich would be a fine player today in college if he played today. He was about the same size as Neal Broten and Pat Micheletti, maybe a little lighter. When he was 13 or so in the state bantam tournament he and his older brother and the other Greenway kids gave our team it's only loss of the year, 3-2 in overtime up in Hibbing. Not that I remember it or anything. It was an interesting tournament with a very young Dan Mahle, Jim Carter, Craig Sarner and Henry Boucha among others. Since Harding had a little trouble with Johnson back then we never got a chance for a rematch. Wonder whatever happened to that consolation trophy. Probably got buried under the rubble when they put in the new highway downtown.

It will be interesting to see how Kyle Rau does in the pros. Like Antonovich he's 5-8.

 

[brookyone]

Re: Minnesota Women's Hockey Off-Season 2015: #BASK

As for brooky, he and I have watched enough games together where the fact that a defenseman was tall didn't necessarily leave us with a peaceful easy feeling.

I couldn't help but think about those times while reading the discussion on tall defenseman. You also reminded me of shorter Gopher D that was pretty adept at creating anxiety for the fan too.

 

[bluffrinkrat]

Re: Minnesota Women's Hockey Off-Season 2015: #BASK

Well, as Lincoln once said in introducing himself and his wife to a crowd below through a buildings window, "This is the long and short of it." It seems obvious that it would be better to have a good 5-5 defenseman on your team than a bad 6 ft. player. But being of equal ability in all aspects I would also rather have a 5-10 to 6 ft. defenseman than a 5-4 to 5-6 one for all the previously belabored reasons.

Alexandra, Mira and Bailey all improved greatly by the time they were seniors. When Mira was a freshman not only did she rarely skate with the puck, she rarely hung onto it for more than a second or two before passing. But even as a freshman she used her long reach to her advantage. When Mira as a senior would occasionally carry the puck out of her zone I knew she had come a long way and not just from Finland. Alexandra and Bailey also eventually became very good puck handlers and would occasionally make end to end impressive rushes. In all three you could just see their confidence grow as they got older. I suppose there has been a short defensemen or two that also improved in the same ways, but like Mary Todd with her head barely above the bottom of the window frame, it just hasn't been as noticeable. Kidding.

That peaceful easy feeling by the way never comes until the game ends with the Gophers ahead or on a 1972 Eagles album.

 

[brookyone]

Re: Minnesota Women's Hockey Off-Season 2015: #BASK

http://www.gophersports.com/sports/w-hockey/spec-rel/041415aaa.html

 

[ne7minder]

Re: Minnesota Women's Hockey Off-Season 2015: #BASK

I think Mike Antonovich would be a fine player today in college if he played today. He was about the same size as Neal Broten and Pat Micheletti, maybe a little lighter. When he was 13 or so in the state bantam tournament he and his older brother and the other Greenway kids gave our team it's only loss of the year, 3-2 in overtime up in Hibbing. Not that I remember it or anything. It was an interesting tournament with a very young Dan Mahle, Jim Carter, Craig Sarner and Henry Boucha among others. Since Harding had a little trouble with Johnson back then we never got a chance for a rematch. Wonder whatever happened to that consolation trophy. Probably got buried under the rubble when they put in the new highway downtown.

It will be interesting to see how Kyle Rau does in the pros. Like Antonovich he's 5-8.

You were a Knight? Ha, I was a Govie about this time. Small world. I remember Mike playing for the WHL Saints & they would always team him up with some monster who I assume had the job of dealing with people who were too tough on Mike.

 

[ne7minder]

Re: Minnesota Women's Hockey Off-Season 2015: #BASK

I don't know that the Gophers had the best line in 2000. Teams like UMD and Harvard were very good up front. I thought Minnesota was just deep overall. Ambria Thomas was a very underrated player, and her line with Slominski and Engstrom was probably more solid than the top scoring line with Muzerall, Curtin, and Kukowski. The blue line was also strong, led by Courtney Kennedy, who would finish in the top three in the Kazmaier the following season, and Winny Brodt. That team was most similar to the 2011-2012 Gophers I'd say if I was going to compare it to another Minnesota championship team. Ironically, Minnesota may have been more talented in 1998-99 when it had Schmidgall and Ralph. Curtin was really the only impact player added, but the big difference was more experience through the roster.

I thought their #1 played the best, maybe not the most talent but the best line together.

 

[ARM]

Re: Minnesota Women's Hockey Off-Season 2015: #BASK

But being of equal ability in all aspects I would also rather have a 5-10 to 6 ft. defenseman than a 5-4 to 5-6 one for all the previously belabored reasons.

At that point, they are no longer equal. Let's go beyond the general case and look at a specific one. BC got the most talented tall defenseman in last year's freshman class in Megan Keller; the Gophers landed Sydney Baldwin. Keller was on the US senior national team for the World Championships, so she's obviously viewed as a very talented player. If I had a chance to trade Baldwin for Keller, I wouldn't do it. Like you, I like height, but I like hockey players whose skating ability stands out even more.

 

[pokechecker]

Re: Minnesota Women's Hockey Off-Season 2015: #BASK

So are we gonna reminisce about HS or argue about height?

But to D2D's point that the game has gotten a lot more physical since the days of Winny Brodt

in general the game probably is more physical, but I'm wondering if you ever saw Courtney Kennedy or Kelly Stephens play
Milica is a girl scout in comparison

At that point, they are no longer equal. Let's go beyond the general case and look at a specific one. BC got the most talented tall defenseman in last year's freshman class in Megan Keller; the Gophers landed Sydney Baldwin. Keller was on the US senior national team for the World Championships, so she's obviously viewed as a very talented player. If I had a chance to trade Baldwin for Keller, I wouldn't do it. Like you, I like height, but I like hockey players whose skating ability stands out even more.

your comparison isn't apples to apples either
I'll let Brooky speak for Brooky, but for me I am not talking about one tall or short player, I'm talking about the entire blueline, when the entire team is tall and talented, it presents a problem for the other team

I know it was only game, but I was not impressed by any of the BC D

I don't know that the Gophers had the best line in 2000. Teams like UMD and Harvard were very good up front. I thought Minnesota was just deep overall. Ambria Thomas was a very underrated player, and her line with Slominski and Engstrom was probably more solid than the top scoring line with Muzerall, Curtin, and Kukowski. The blue line was also strong, led by Courtney Kennedy, who would finish in the top three in the Kazmaier the following season, and Winny Brodt. That team was most similar to the 2011-2012 Gophers I'd say if I was going to compare it to another Minnesota championship team. Ironically, Minnesota may have been more talented in 1998-99 when it had Schmidgall and Ralph. Curtin was really the only impact player added, but the big difference was more experience through the roster.

I see what you did there

In 2000 the line situation was similar to 2014, which line really was the top line?
ultimately though, the top player ultimately delivers or doesn't, and like this year, did

 

[FiveHoleFrenzy]

Re: Minnesota Women's Hockey Off-Season 2015: #BASK

At that point, they are no longer equal. Let's go beyond the general case and look at a specific one. BC got the most talented "towering" defenseman in last year's freshman class in Megan Keller; the Gophers landed Sydney Baldwin. Keller was on the US senior national team for the World Championships, so she's obviously viewed as a very talented player. If I had a chance to trade Baldwin for Keller, I wouldn't do it. Like you, I like height, but I like hockey players whose skating ability stands out even more.

I look forward to hearing from the BC crowd next year about who will be "clearly the best" coming in.

Between Keller and Baldwin? Tough choice but based on what the Gophers needed I think Baldwin worked out very well. However, It would have been interesting to see what Keller would have done under the tutelage of the Gopher coaching staff.