Slap Shot
I got nothing
I wonder how many FF teams the past decade for instance had one senior on the team.
USCHO Fan Forum
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.
Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013 Part II: Mmmm, Iron City Beer!
- Thread starter Greyeagle
- Start date
- Status
I wonder how many FF teams the past decade for instance had one senior on the team.
Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013 Part II: Mmmm, Iron City Beer!
That's not a legit line of thinking to me.
The Gophers had a number of guys who could have/should have stepped up and been leaders. But they didn't.
You look at the urgency and pace that the teams that made it to the Frozen Four played with, and we hadn't seen that out of MN since January.
Seniors are the most likely candidates to bring that kind of game and spread it to the rest of the team, but there were guys on the Gophers who could have very well been playing their last college hockey, had tremendous skill and the ability to ignite the rest of the guys on the bench. It simply didn't happen.
That's not a legit line of thinking to me.
The Gophers had a number of guys who could have/should have stepped up and been leaders. But they didn't.
You look at the urgency and pace that the teams that made it to the Frozen Four played with, and we hadn't seen that out of MN since January.
Seniors are the most likely candidates to bring that kind of game and spread it to the rest of the team, but there were guys on the Gophers who could have very well been playing their last college hockey, had tremendous skill and the ability to ignite the rest of the guys on the bench. It simply didn't happen.
HarleyMC
Registered User
Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013 Part II: Mmmm, Iron City Beer!
IMO to have the inherent potential to "win it all", a college team has to have talent, depth, good coaching and quality student-athlete leadership. This season clearly did not have enough "quality" senior leadership and I think it did affect the sustainability of consistent play in the the second half. While there is always "leadership potential" for some players, I didn't see any player on the team who has either the experience or maturity to provide any significant on or off ice leadership impact, other than the ones assigned to leadership roles (Haula, Helgy and Budish).
It's noteworthy that just having several seniors on the team DOES NOT mean there is adequate quality senior leadership either. The 2002-03 national championship team only had 2 seniors (Demarchi, Anthony), but so did the 2008-09 team that missed the NCAAs! The added leadership value with the 2002-03 team was the previous season's FF experience of the sophomores and juniors and the quality leadership that provided to filled in the gaps for senior leadership (plus freshman Thomas Vanek
).
The 2001-02 championship team, and FF teams of 2004-05 and 2011-12 all had solid leadership coming from 6-7 battle tested seniors. In fact, this season marks the ONLY year under Lucia's tenure the Gophers have had only ONE senior on the team. The value of having battle tested guys like last season with Taylor Matson and Jake Hansen, who endured the agonizing down years, should not be overlooked. I see the lack of enough "quality" senior leadership as one significant factor that had an inferential effect on team play this season and their lack of consistency. Depending on who stays, next season should have stronger senior leadership.
IMO to have the inherent potential to "win it all", a college team has to have talent, depth, good coaching and quality student-athlete leadership. This season clearly did not have enough "quality" senior leadership and I think it did affect the sustainability of consistent play in the the second half. While there is always "leadership potential" for some players, I didn't see any player on the team who has either the experience or maturity to provide any significant on or off ice leadership impact, other than the ones assigned to leadership roles (Haula, Helgy and Budish).
It's noteworthy that just having several seniors on the team DOES NOT mean there is adequate quality senior leadership either. The 2002-03 national championship team only had 2 seniors (Demarchi, Anthony), but so did the 2008-09 team that missed the NCAAs! The added leadership value with the 2002-03 team was the previous season's FF experience of the sophomores and juniors and the quality leadership that provided to filled in the gaps for senior leadership (plus freshman Thomas Vanek
). The 2001-02 championship team, and FF teams of 2004-05 and 2011-12 all had solid leadership coming from 6-7 battle tested seniors. In fact, this season marks the ONLY year under Lucia's tenure the Gophers have had only ONE senior on the team. The value of having battle tested guys like last season with Taylor Matson and Jake Hansen, who endured the agonizing down years, should not be overlooked. I see the lack of enough "quality" senior leadership as one significant factor that had an inferential effect on team play this season and their lack of consistency. Depending on who stays, next season should have stronger senior leadership.
Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013 Part II: Mmmm, Iron City Beer!
Well, I think we all agree that leadership was one of the biggest detriments to this year's team.
But I'd contend that guys like Budish, Bjugstad, Condon and Schmidt all had the potential, motivation, experience and opportunity to step up and take that role on. They didn't. Budish and Schmidt showed flashes of it, but never really developed that identity. Parenteau could have provided a 2nd level or role-player type of leadership but didn't (I think there were circumstances that hindered that identity from coming forward in him). I really liked the way Alt was playing the past few months, but he is never going to be that outgoing and vocal leader that championship teams need. Ironically, I think Holl may have been the best example of true leadership on the team.
This team also had FF experience from the previous season.; but it didn't translate into much.
Well, I think we all agree that leadership was one of the biggest detriments to this year's team.
But I'd contend that guys like Budish, Bjugstad, Condon and Schmidt all had the potential, motivation, experience and opportunity to step up and take that role on. They didn't. Budish and Schmidt showed flashes of it, but never really developed that identity. Parenteau could have provided a 2nd level or role-player type of leadership but didn't (I think there were circumstances that hindered that identity from coming forward in him). I really liked the way Alt was playing the past few months, but he is never going to be that outgoing and vocal leader that championship teams need. Ironically, I think Holl may have been the best example of true leadership on the team.
This team also had FF experience from the previous season.; but it didn't translate into much.
Driftryder
Gopher Hockey
Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013 Part II: Mmmm, Iron City Beer!
Congrats and good luck with the Caps to Schmidt.
I'm sure Haula and Bjugs will be gone after Budish.
It's hard to stock a team of seniors anymore, unless you are the ECAC.
Congrats and good luck with the Caps to Schmidt.
I'm sure Haula and Bjugs will be gone after Budish.
It's hard to stock a team of seniors anymore, unless you are the ECAC.
GopherFan89
New member
Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013 Part II: Mmmm, Iron City Beer!
What do you guys think the chances are for Bjugstad and Haula leaving? 90% for Bjugstad or is he 100% gone?
What do you guys think the chances are for Bjugstad and Haula leaving? 90% for Bjugstad or is he 100% gone?
Driftryder
Gopher Hockey
Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013 Part II: Mmmm, Iron City Beer!
I would say 100% for both.
I would say 100% for both.
carltonbarrett
New member
Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013 Part II: Mmmm, Iron City Beer!
I know you guys have some excellent recruits coming next year but am wondering if they can replace all these guys that are probably leaving early? I remember when BC lost in the 2000 title game, I was thinking they were screwed because they were losing most of their big guns, but their excellent freshmen class the next year was so good that they carried them all the way to the 2001 championship. It looks possible that your recruits could do the same thing.
I know you guys have some excellent recruits coming next year but am wondering if they can replace all these guys that are probably leaving early? I remember when BC lost in the 2000 title game, I was thinking they were screwed because they were losing most of their big guns, but their excellent freshmen class the next year was so good that they carried them all the way to the 2001 championship. It looks possible that your recruits could do the same thing.
Driftryder
Gopher Hockey
Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013 Part II: Mmmm, Iron City Beer!
Yeah it sounds like Kloos Cammarata Guertler and Fasching are coming in next year for sure, the first 3 have been putting up some nice offensive numbers in the USHL. But replacing the guys who left and who are expected to leave won't be easy but can be done.
Yeah it sounds like Kloos Cammarata Guertler and Fasching are coming in next year for sure, the first 3 have been putting up some nice offensive numbers in the USHL. But replacing the guys who left and who are expected to leave won't be easy but can be done.
I don't like counting on rookies to carry the load its a recipe for disaster.
carltonbarrett
New member
Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013 Part II: Mmmm, Iron City Beer!
Cammarata looks like the type that could replace one of the big guns in very short order.
Cammarata looks like the type that could replace one of the big guns in very short order.
Tipsy McStagger
Falling on fans at NHC since 2001
No worries about leadership?
HarleyMC
Registered User
Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013 Part II: Mmmm, Iron City Beer!
Kloos (26-51-77), Cammarata (34-48-82) and Guertler (31-20-51) are currently tearing up the USHL in scoring, and should see significant ice time next season to fill the skates of the departed. Looks like we'll be a little smaller and younger up front: Rau (5'8", 173), Warning (5'9", 181), Kloos (5'9", 170), Cammarata (5'7". 156), Guertler (5'9", 178), and Connor Reilly (5'11, 174). A strong incoming class and very capable scoring threats to start the B1G era...I like it.
Sounds like Budish is headed for Music City. Jared Larsen apparently has also left for greener pastures.
In terms of leadership next season, Condon seems to be the likely candidate for captain flanked by senior leadership from Alt, Serratore, Parenteau, Holl. Marshall and Alt co-lead the backline, with Rau, Warning, Ambroz leading offensively. Senior leadership next season doesn't suggest overwhelming strength...but we'll be ok as long as they're consistently working hard week to week.
Kloos (26-51-77), Cammarata (34-48-82) and Guertler (31-20-51) are currently tearing up the USHL in scoring, and should see significant ice time next season to fill the skates of the departed. Looks like we'll be a little smaller and younger up front: Rau (5'8", 173), Warning (5'9", 181), Kloos (5'9", 170), Cammarata (5'7". 156), Guertler (5'9", 178), and Connor Reilly (5'11, 174). A strong incoming class and very capable scoring threats to start the B1G era...I like it.
Sounds like Budish is headed for Music City. Jared Larsen apparently has also left for greener pastures.
In terms of leadership next season, Condon seems to be the likely candidate for captain flanked by senior leadership from Alt, Serratore, Parenteau, Holl. Marshall and Alt co-lead the backline, with Rau, Warning, Ambroz leading offensively. Senior leadership next season doesn't suggest overwhelming strength...but we'll be ok as long as they're consistently working hard week to week.
Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013 Part II: Mmmm, Iron City Beer!
Sure. But the start of every year there's always the appearance of a leadership vacuum...and someone always shows up.
Sometimes I wonder if leadership is overrated. I'd take either talent, experience or depth over leadership in terms of captains. Confidence and drive due to leadership comes from coaches. What mattters from there is what it means to players. Team captain 'leadership' is further down the list IMO.
Sure. But the start of every year there's always the appearance of a leadership vacuum...and someone always shows up.
Sometimes I wonder if leadership is overrated. I'd take either talent, experience or depth over leadership in terms of captains. Confidence and drive due to leadership comes from coaches. What mattters from there is what it means to players. Team captain 'leadership' is further down the list IMO.
Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013 Part II: Mmmm, Iron City Beer!
The team is starting from such a position of talent depth...that we still could be very deep. Bjugs, Haula, Schmidt will likely be replaced with Cammarata, Kloos and Mike Reilly. I'd still rather have that than any other talent in the country. As I mentioned, the teams prospects will be tied to what happens to the second and third lines.
The team is starting from such a position of talent depth...that we still could be very deep. Bjugs, Haula, Schmidt will likely be replaced with Cammarata, Kloos and Mike Reilly. I'd still rather have that than any other talent in the country. As I mentioned, the teams prospects will be tied to what happens to the second and third lines.
Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013 Part II: Mmmm, Iron City Beer!
So, is that why the Goph's lost? I mean, Qu has a roster full of seniors and Yale has a few... and SCSU has their Captain...
It is a legit point, seniors provide much more than meets the eye. Besides, they are more mature physically and don't always have one eye in the mirror and the other on the NHL. Not these days. Long gone before that happens.
So, is that why the Goph's lost? I mean, Qu has a roster full of seniors and Yale has a few... and SCSU has their Captain...
It is a legit point, seniors provide much more than meets the eye. Besides, they are more mature physically and don't always have one eye in the mirror and the other on the NHL. Not these days. Long gone before that happens.
Driftryder
Gopher Hockey
Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013 Part II: Mmmm, Iron City Beer!
It seems like many of the "non traditional" Frozen Four teams the last few years have had the older sr's on the team, I think it does help in some way, obviously it's not the case for every team. But an older player probably isn't going to the NHL, so like you said they are "all in" for their college program and don't have one eye on the NHL.
This is not an excuse as to why the Gophers lost either, imo they seemed to get lazy later in the season and turn it on when they had to, but got caught with their "pants down" against a good Yale team.
It seems like many of the "non traditional" Frozen Four teams the last few years have had the older sr's on the team, I think it does help in some way, obviously it's not the case for every team. But an older player probably isn't going to the NHL, so like you said they are "all in" for their college program and don't have one eye on the NHL.
This is not an excuse as to why the Gophers lost either, imo they seemed to get lazy later in the season and turn it on when they had to, but got caught with their "pants down" against a good Yale team.
- Status