Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018
I think he's saying overall he disagrees with SteveO's argument.
I think he's saying overall he disagrees with SteveO's argument.
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Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018
- Thread starter SteveO
- Start date
Tipsy McStagger
Falling on fans at NHC since 2001
He isn't taking the job to fail. I assume by taking the job, his aim is to make the program as good as he can. Wherever he thinks the program is doesn't matter to me.
mnstate0fhockey
New member
Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018
I really don't understand why anyone would think he isn't here to win and see the program succeed. He made it pretty clear during his press conference, however it was specifically worded, that he understands the job he is taking (expectations from alums, fans, the media, etc..). He was very complimentary of the game, the state, and the schools. He understands the state and the expectations and pressures that come with this job.
Is he a sharp public speaker? Probably not as sharp as they come, but he admitted that. What he is excellent at is evaluating talent, recruiting, coaching, and leading. He's proven that. I am very happy with the hire.
I really don't understand why anyone would think he isn't here to win and see the program succeed. He made it pretty clear during his press conference, however it was specifically worded, that he understands the job he is taking (expectations from alums, fans, the media, etc..). He was very complimentary of the game, the state, and the schools. He understands the state and the expectations and pressures that come with this job.
Is he a sharp public speaker? Probably not as sharp as they come, but he admitted that. What he is excellent at is evaluating talent, recruiting, coaching, and leading. He's proven that. I am very happy with the hire.
gopher wes
Dammit, Gorilla!!
Wisko McBadgerton
Teaching you how to Bucky.
Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018
I've always really liked and respected Motzko.
Sadly, the only way I'll now be able to continue that forward is if he fails miserably.
I've always really liked and respected Motzko.
Sadly, the only way I'll now be able to continue that forward is if he fails miserably.
FredsDeadFriend
New member
Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018
Actually Slap Shot, that is a very good post. Don Lucia said close to the same thing when he got hired, that he grew up wanting to play for the Gophers, but didn't get recruited and opted to play elsewhere instead, and I believed he was very happy to get the honor to coach the Gophers and now who would question his love and loyalty to the program?
Now Motzko went even further, attending the U for 2 years, trying out for the team both seasons, seems he wanted it more than Lucia did, at least if you consider actions to be worth more than words, and had to, in a sense, settle for playing for SCSU? Then he got to coach at UMn during its back to back title run? Then got a chance to be a head coach, at his official alma mater(btw, if he won a Nobel Prize, his name would be included in the list of Minnesota's Nobel winners. That is standard policy, every school that a scholar/scientist attended is given credit) and tried and did a pretty good job of getting SCSU higher up the ladder than they were when he was hired, but despite his efforts, couldn't find success with the team at the NCAA level, and unlike many of us who are not coaches of Div 1 hockey teams, he got to see how hard or easy it was to recruit players to UMn in comparison to getting them to come to SCSU, he got to see first hand the amount of resources each school had available to them, he got to see what the fan base was like, and also what it was like to live in St Cloud as compared to somewhere in the Twin Cities, and looking at all of that, it wouldn't shock me one bit if he had a ton of passion for the job of coaching at Minnesota. He wanted to play here, but failed to do that, so now he has the opportunity to lead the team back to the Top? This reminds me of Herb Brooks being fired up to COACH the Olympic team to a Gold Medal since he was not able to play for the team and win a Gold Medal.
Maybe it's because I do not like the idea of *****ing about something that can not be changed, like the move to the BTHC from the old wcha. When that happened, I accepted it immediately and fully embraced it and now look, my faith in the idea of the BTHC that I forced myself to have, has been rewarded with 3 BTHC teams in the Frozen Four!!!
So as upset as I was about the idea of dumping Lucia and hiring anyone other than maybe Grant P, I'm quickly coming around and starting to like this hire more and more.
So again, good post Slap Shot.
Actually Slap Shot, that is a very good post. Don Lucia said close to the same thing when he got hired, that he grew up wanting to play for the Gophers, but didn't get recruited and opted to play elsewhere instead, and I believed he was very happy to get the honor to coach the Gophers and now who would question his love and loyalty to the program?
Now Motzko went even further, attending the U for 2 years, trying out for the team both seasons, seems he wanted it more than Lucia did, at least if you consider actions to be worth more than words, and had to, in a sense, settle for playing for SCSU? Then he got to coach at UMn during its back to back title run? Then got a chance to be a head coach, at his official alma mater(btw, if he won a Nobel Prize, his name would be included in the list of Minnesota's Nobel winners. That is standard policy, every school that a scholar/scientist attended is given credit) and tried and did a pretty good job of getting SCSU higher up the ladder than they were when he was hired, but despite his efforts, couldn't find success with the team at the NCAA level, and unlike many of us who are not coaches of Div 1 hockey teams, he got to see how hard or easy it was to recruit players to UMn in comparison to getting them to come to SCSU, he got to see first hand the amount of resources each school had available to them, he got to see what the fan base was like, and also what it was like to live in St Cloud as compared to somewhere in the Twin Cities, and looking at all of that, it wouldn't shock me one bit if he had a ton of passion for the job of coaching at Minnesota. He wanted to play here, but failed to do that, so now he has the opportunity to lead the team back to the Top? This reminds me of Herb Brooks being fired up to COACH the Olympic team to a Gold Medal since he was not able to play for the team and win a Gold Medal.
Maybe it's because I do not like the idea of *****ing about something that can not be changed, like the move to the BTHC from the old wcha. When that happened, I accepted it immediately and fully embraced it and now look, my faith in the idea of the BTHC that I forced myself to have, has been rewarded with 3 BTHC teams in the Frozen Four!!!
So as upset as I was about the idea of dumping Lucia and hiring anyone other than maybe Grant P, I'm quickly coming around and starting to like this hire more and more.
So again, good post Slap Shot.
FredsDeadFriend
New member
Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018
I think the example of the Lam sisters is relevant as a comparison to Motzko. Why did they pick Minnesota over UND? lol we all know why, at UMn they could play for Natl Titles.
But why did they transfer to UND? Because that was their first love, that is where their true loyalties laid. I had a lot of respect for them for doing that. It was good for women's hockey and worked to help make UND a much better team, until they left and well, things went downhill from there.
So let me ask you SteveO, why did Motzko leave UMn and go to SCSU? Was it because SCSU was his true first love? Is that the team he grew up wanting to play for?
Why did Herb Brooks leave UMn to coach the Olympic team? Was coaching the Gophers and winning a Natl Title in ncaa hockey his biggest dream? If it was, he would have turned down the chance to coach the Olympic team and/or gone back to UMn the next year.
Or was it to win a Gold Medal at the Olympics? I think we all know the answer to that.
The Lams were willing to sacrifice the great chance of winning Natl Titles, to do something more noble and memorable and meaningful.
If Motzko's TRUE love was SCSU, wouldn't he have gone there his first year? And wouldn't he have turned down the offer to come here and coach? I mean, SCSU, arguably has been the more successful program as of late. Had he stayed there and we gone with Grant P or someone even further down the list of candidates, there would be a chance SCSU would have continued to best the Gophers in head to head matchups and in their place in the rankings and # of trips to the NCAA tourney, etc..
So it's a pay raise, but you don't think SCSU wouldn't have given him a pay raise if they thought it would keep him there? Grant P used the interviewing for the job here as leverage for a pay raise, my guess is Motzko would have gotten a raise had he made that offer to SCSU. But he didn't, did he? And the cost of living in the Twin Cities is higher than it is in St Cloud, so will he really be making a HUGE amount more, when it's all said and done?
So I doubt the money issue was a big factor. And Prestige? The only way he'll gain more prestige is if he does something MORE than what Lucia did the past 5-10 years, and something MORE than what SCSU succeeds in doing the next couple of years as well.
This seems sort of like the Herb Brooks thing to me. Motzko came to the U to play for the U and that didn't work out, and didn't just try once, but twice, much like Brooks tried out for the 1960 Olympic team and it didn't work out, and tried again in 64 and made the team but didn't win Gold. 20 years later he left what was easily considered, AT THAT TIME, the #1 top most prestigious college hockey program of the 70's, to take on the daunting task of trying to beat the mighty Russians and garner the US a Gold Medal. Now it's been how many years since he tried out for the Gophers and failed, and he gets an opportunity to lead the team he couldn't make, to a Natl Title? And he knows what it feels like since he as on the staff when Lucia achieved as a coach what he couldn't as a player.
Seems to me like there could be the evidence there of where his heart truly has been all along? Definitely worth considering.
I think the example of the Lam sisters is relevant as a comparison to Motzko. Why did they pick Minnesota over UND? lol we all know why, at UMn they could play for Natl Titles.
But why did they transfer to UND? Because that was their first love, that is where their true loyalties laid. I had a lot of respect for them for doing that. It was good for women's hockey and worked to help make UND a much better team, until they left and well, things went downhill from there.
So let me ask you SteveO, why did Motzko leave UMn and go to SCSU? Was it because SCSU was his true first love? Is that the team he grew up wanting to play for?
Why did Herb Brooks leave UMn to coach the Olympic team? Was coaching the Gophers and winning a Natl Title in ncaa hockey his biggest dream? If it was, he would have turned down the chance to coach the Olympic team and/or gone back to UMn the next year.
Or was it to win a Gold Medal at the Olympics? I think we all know the answer to that.
The Lams were willing to sacrifice the great chance of winning Natl Titles, to do something more noble and memorable and meaningful.
If Motzko's TRUE love was SCSU, wouldn't he have gone there his first year? And wouldn't he have turned down the offer to come here and coach? I mean, SCSU, arguably has been the more successful program as of late. Had he stayed there and we gone with Grant P or someone even further down the list of candidates, there would be a chance SCSU would have continued to best the Gophers in head to head matchups and in their place in the rankings and # of trips to the NCAA tourney, etc..
So it's a pay raise, but you don't think SCSU wouldn't have given him a pay raise if they thought it would keep him there? Grant P used the interviewing for the job here as leverage for a pay raise, my guess is Motzko would have gotten a raise had he made that offer to SCSU. But he didn't, did he? And the cost of living in the Twin Cities is higher than it is in St Cloud, so will he really be making a HUGE amount more, when it's all said and done?
So I doubt the money issue was a big factor. And Prestige? The only way he'll gain more prestige is if he does something MORE than what Lucia did the past 5-10 years, and something MORE than what SCSU succeeds in doing the next couple of years as well.
This seems sort of like the Herb Brooks thing to me. Motzko came to the U to play for the U and that didn't work out, and didn't just try once, but twice, much like Brooks tried out for the 1960 Olympic team and it didn't work out, and tried again in 64 and made the team but didn't win Gold. 20 years later he left what was easily considered, AT THAT TIME, the #1 top most prestigious college hockey program of the 70's, to take on the daunting task of trying to beat the mighty Russians and garner the US a Gold Medal. Now it's been how many years since he tried out for the Gophers and failed, and he gets an opportunity to lead the team he couldn't make, to a Natl Title? And he knows what it feels like since he as on the staff when Lucia achieved as a coach what he couldn't as a player.
Seems to me like there could be the evidence there of where his heart truly has been all along? Definitely worth considering.
Tipsy McStagger
Falling on fans at NHC since 2001
Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018
Ladies and gentlemen...he's back.
Ladies and gentlemen...he's back.
FredsDeadFriend
New member
Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018
I said I'd be nicer and try to stop triggering guys like you. But this is the GOPHER thread, not the SCSU thread, so I assumed I was talking to basically to Gopher fans, but I forgot how much you SCSU fans love to hang out in this thread, and you have every right to hang out here I guess, so I'll try to be more sensitive to that from here on out. So I apologize.
I said I'd be nicer and try to stop triggering guys like you. But this is the GOPHER thread, not the SCSU thread, so I assumed I was talking to basically to Gopher fans, but I forgot how much you SCSU fans love to hang out in this thread, and you have every right to hang out here I guess, so I'll try to be more sensitive to that from here on out. So I apologize.
First Time Long Time
Rebuilding
What you don't understand is...we (and not just Huskies) just want you to go away.
Tipsy McStagger
Falling on fans at NHC since 2001
Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018
You can post whatever you want. You are on topic. I am on topic. That doesn't mean you aren't going to be mocked for it. I especially liked these:
SCSU may have given him a pay raise. But the Gophers DOUBLED HIS SALARY. St. Cloud can't compete with that.
If it helps your psyche to think he secretly loved the Gophers all along and couldn't wait to ditch his alma mater to go back there, rock on. But it's a pretty ridiculous theory.
You can post whatever you want. You are on topic. I am on topic. That doesn't mean you aren't going to be mocked for it. I especially liked these:
Was Motzko nominated for a Nobel Prize? If not, what the hell does that have to do with anything.FredsDeadFriend said:
If Motzko's "TRUE love" was the Gophers, wouldn't he have stayed there like Guentzel did? Wouldn't he have turned down the offer to go to St. Cloud and coach? I mean, the U of M inarguably had been the more successful program at that time.FredsDeadFriend said:
FredsDeadFriend said:
SCSU may have given him a pay raise. But the Gophers DOUBLED HIS SALARY. St. Cloud can't compete with that.
If the money wasn't a big factor, why did he ever leave the Gophers? When you listen to his reasoning on why he left SCSU, his responses have been "I always thought I had one more move in me", "It was an opportunity and I wanted it", "This was a job that you only get one kick at the can, and it was there” To me, these are vague responses that actually don't tell the person listening anything. Probably because the real reasons don't sound any better. "I took the job because they doubled my pay", "I took the job because the Gophers spend twice as much on hockey as St. Cloud", and "I took the job because it will be easier to get recruits to go to a big name school" all sound cold and would turn off the people they are trying to sell this move to.FredsDeadFriend said:
If it helps your psyche to think he secretly loved the Gophers all along and couldn't wait to ditch his alma mater to go back there, rock on. But it's a pretty ridiculous theory.
Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018
Would anyone question Potulny's love for the Gophers because he took a job with NMU? I believe he interviewed for the Gophers opening. Why did Blais coach UND? If Motzko was nothing but loyal to SCSU why take a job with Minnesota the first time around? Only because of money? When he did leave is it not logical that he wanted to become a head coach and didn't see Lucia leaving anytime soon or could it only be because UM meant nothing to him?
Regardless is there there really a pissing contest going on trying to prove the only reason someone would take a job with UM is because of money even though SCSU could have paid him at least in the same ballpark? Really? Is the pettiness really that deep?
Would anyone question Potulny's love for the Gophers because he took a job with NMU? I believe he interviewed for the Gophers opening. Why did Blais coach UND? If Motzko was nothing but loyal to SCSU why take a job with Minnesota the first time around? Only because of money? When he did leave is it not logical that he wanted to become a head coach and didn't see Lucia leaving anytime soon or could it only be because UM meant nothing to him?
Regardless is there there really a pissing contest going on trying to prove the only reason someone would take a job with UM is because of money even though SCSU could have paid him at least in the same ballpark? Really? Is the pettiness really that deep?
FredsDeadFriend
New member
Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018
Funny thing about America, that's not how it works. Sorry. I believe there is an ignore option though, so hey, there is that option. Well, have a nice day!
Funny thing about America, that's not how it works. Sorry. I believe there is an ignore option though, so hey, there is that option. Well, have a nice day!
FredsDeadFriend
New member
Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018
Hey Tippsy, I've given my 2 cents, and its just a theory, I could easily be wrong. Your opinion is just as valid as mine, and I respect it, so I won't argue with you and your theory that I just want to soothe my psyche sounds very plausible so I'm ok with your take. I appreciate your reasoned response. Have a nice day!
Hey Tippsy, I've given my 2 cents, and its just a theory, I could easily be wrong. Your opinion is just as valid as mine, and I respect it, so I won't argue with you and your theory that I just want to soothe my psyche sounds very plausible so I'm ok with your take. I appreciate your reasoned response. Have a nice day!
First Time Long Time
Rebuilding
We do believe he took it mostly because of money whether he says so or not. He doubled his salary basically and there was no way we could match that.
His loyalty to us wasn't strong enough to overcome that...ce la vie.
It hurts and you can't expect us to not be a little petty about it for a while.
I mean when was the last time a head coach left for a job with one of their biggest rivals? It doesn't happen often.
mnstate0fhockey
New member
Actually, Brooks said numerous times that the best experience of his life wasn't winning the gold, winning national championships, or coaching in the NHL. It was playing in the State Tourney with his buddies.
Tipsy McStagger
Falling on fans at NHC since 2001
Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018
I can't even tell who you are addressing here. You seem to be making my point while also arguing against it.
No one did question Potulny's love for the Gophers. Fred here is trying to question Motzko's love for St. Cloud. Motzko took the job with Minnesota probably because he coaches for a living, it paid well and it was a good opportunity to learn under a well thought of coach at a big time college hockey program. When he left it definitely is logical that he wanted to become a head coach and didn't see Lucia leaving anytime soon. He wasn't hired as a head coach, though. He was hired as an assistant under Dahl. And no, $302k is not in the same ballpark as $565k plus performance bonuses.
But I will put it to you this way: If a guy couldn't make the team at UND, and the Gophers took him in and put him on the team. And then the Gophers give that same guy his first coaching opportunity. Years later, after a handful of jobs, he is an assistant at UND for 4 years. The Gophers then offer the guy a lateral move as an assistant and he takes it. Suprisingly, whoever is coaching the Gophers quits and the guy is made the head coach. He coaches the Gophers for 13 years and then UND offers to pay him the same amount to go there. Would you want a guy that would leave the Gophers coaching your program? If it isn't the money, isn't that a pathetic level of disloyalty? So am I being petty for defending Motzko's decision, or is it petty to try and rub salt in the wound of a fanbase whose coach was just poached from them by saying his allegiance was to the Gophers all along?
I can't even tell who you are addressing here. You seem to be making my point while also arguing against it.
No one did question Potulny's love for the Gophers. Fred here is trying to question Motzko's love for St. Cloud. Motzko took the job with Minnesota probably because he coaches for a living, it paid well and it was a good opportunity to learn under a well thought of coach at a big time college hockey program. When he left it definitely is logical that he wanted to become a head coach and didn't see Lucia leaving anytime soon. He wasn't hired as a head coach, though. He was hired as an assistant under Dahl. And no, $302k is not in the same ballpark as $565k plus performance bonuses.
But I will put it to you this way: If a guy couldn't make the team at UND, and the Gophers took him in and put him on the team. And then the Gophers give that same guy his first coaching opportunity. Years later, after a handful of jobs, he is an assistant at UND for 4 years. The Gophers then offer the guy a lateral move as an assistant and he takes it. Suprisingly, whoever is coaching the Gophers quits and the guy is made the head coach. He coaches the Gophers for 13 years and then UND offers to pay him the same amount to go there. Would you want a guy that would leave the Gophers coaching your program? If it isn't the money, isn't that a pathetic level of disloyalty? So am I being petty for defending Motzko's decision, or is it petty to try and rub salt in the wound of a fanbase whose coach was just poached from them by saying his allegiance was to the Gophers all along?
Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018
I don't begrudge you one bit about being upset about it, I just think you're selling Bob and the UM program a bit short is all. We can agree to disagree.
Yes I would and it isn't. Bob wanted to be a head coach - why should he stay at Minnesota for an unknown number of years just in hopes of one day replacing Lucia? Can he not have 2 passions (UM and head coaching) at the same time? Yet sometimes those passions don't always intersect. I've been in my business for 20 years after starting off in a different field. I've been with one company for 14 years that I love (first 10 in MN the past 4 here in PH), but the day I get an offer that makes sense to come back to MN even if it isn't with my current company I am gone. It doesn't make me disloyal it makes me astute.
I don't fault Grant one iota for going to NMU to chase his dreams which obviously includes head coaching. Sure he got more $ to go to NMU but it wasn't a ridiculous amount more - but he has the passion for leading a program and went after it. I don't find it disloyal to the Gophers at all and if he finally gets the chance to come back hear to lead assuming he's proven he's worthy I'll welcome him back 100%.
As I said to FTLT it's not unusual fo ryou to be unhappy with this at all but I do think there's a bit of cloudy judgement going on here in assuming Bob is only in it for the money. But if he is and he leads them to wins I can live with it I guess. I'll leave this argument behind because it's pretty silly imho.
I don't begrudge you one bit about being upset about it, I just think you're selling Bob and the UM program a bit short is all. We can agree to disagree.
Yes I would and it isn't. Bob wanted to be a head coach - why should he stay at Minnesota for an unknown number of years just in hopes of one day replacing Lucia? Can he not have 2 passions (UM and head coaching) at the same time? Yet sometimes those passions don't always intersect. I've been in my business for 20 years after starting off in a different field. I've been with one company for 14 years that I love (first 10 in MN the past 4 here in PH), but the day I get an offer that makes sense to come back to MN even if it isn't with my current company I am gone. It doesn't make me disloyal it makes me astute.
I don't fault Grant one iota for going to NMU to chase his dreams which obviously includes head coaching. Sure he got more $ to go to NMU but it wasn't a ridiculous amount more - but he has the passion for leading a program and went after it. I don't find it disloyal to the Gophers at all and if he finally gets the chance to come back hear to lead assuming he's proven he's worthy I'll welcome him back 100%.
As I said to FTLT it's not unusual fo ryou to be unhappy with this at all but I do think there's a bit of cloudy judgement going on here in assuming Bob is only in it for the money. But if he is and he leads them to wins I can live with it I guess. I'll leave this argument behind because it's pretty silly imho.
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Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018
I think you nailed it and I can't disagree with you. I am not proud of the fact that a school with a much larger budget can wave money in front of a head coach and poach him from a smaller school, whose recent program success is unparalleled under his leadership, with a counter offer that by comparison is like offering him a cup of coffee.
Something I read recently comes to mind:
Virtue has no master. If a person does not honor this principle and rejoice in it, but is purchasable for money, he creates many masters for himself. - Plato
I've never entertained the thought that Bob Motzko is not passionate about coaching, and I fully expect him to deliver it in full measure to the Gopher players and staff.
But the thought occurred to me if he ever thought last season, after successfully coaching the Huskies to #1 in the NCAA and winning their second Penrose Cup as NCHC regular-season champions; "You know, I think I'm done here at SCSU. There's really nothing more to experience with the hockey program. I'm ready to move on"? If he did, that's extremely atypical for a coach with his recent success.
I think most Gopher fans understand that's exactly what MG has been faithfully doing for several years.
I think you nailed it and I can't disagree with you. I am not proud of the fact that a school with a much larger budget can wave money in front of a head coach and poach him from a smaller school, whose recent program success is unparalleled under his leadership, with a counter offer that by comparison is like offering him a cup of coffee.
Something I read recently comes to mind:
Virtue has no master. If a person does not honor this principle and rejoice in it, but is purchasable for money, he creates many masters for himself. - Plato
I've never entertained the thought that Bob Motzko is not passionate about coaching, and I fully expect him to deliver it in full measure to the Gopher players and staff.
But the thought occurred to me if he ever thought last season, after successfully coaching the Huskies to #1 in the NCAA and winning their second Penrose Cup as NCHC regular-season champions; "You know, I think I'm done here at SCSU. There's really nothing more to experience with the hockey program. I'm ready to move on"? If he did, that's extremely atypical for a coach with his recent success.
I think most Gopher fans understand that's exactly what MG has been faithfully doing for several years.
Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018
MG didn't get the job, but I am sure the admin did their due diligence when it came to evaluating MG and you have zero reason to believe they didn't.
Did you call the hiring of Lucia into question for leaving CC even though they were doing extremely well at the time? Yes Lucia was not an alum, but again Bob did attend the U for 2 years (and only left because he was cut) and did coach there for several years. Your angst over this is bizarre.
MG didn't get the job, but I am sure the admin did their due diligence when it came to evaluating MG and you have zero reason to believe they didn't.
Did you call the hiring of Lucia into question for leaving CC even though they were doing extremely well at the time? Yes Lucia was not an alum, but again Bob did attend the U for 2 years (and only left because he was cut) and did coach there for several years. Your angst over this is bizarre.
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