Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

[mnstate0fhockey]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

If you don't think Guentzel had much control over the program under Lucia, then he has no college head coaching experience. And if you think his time as Associate Head Coach should count as head coaching experience, then he also deserves some responsibility for the program growing stale.

I like Mike Guentzel, but I understand and am ok with them going in a different direction. I really hope he stays on as an assistant.

 

[SteveO]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

Don Lucia was delegating a lot more to his assts. in the past couple years, but MG's job description was limited to the defense. He spent 21 years as a Gopher asst. under Doug Woog and Don Lucia and returned to the Gophers from Omaha in 2011 with a view to replacing Don Lucia whenever that time arrived. Brad Berry had 10 yrs. experience as an asst. at UND before being appointed as head coach.

Mike coached two Hobey Baker Award winners, 16 All-Americans and helped develop 29 NHL defenseman.

Some fans may not realize that last year about this time MG was honored by his NCAA D1 peers at the American Hockey Coaches Association convention in Naples, Fla. with the Terry Flanagan Award recognizing his career work as one of the top assistant coaches in college hockey.

“No one better represents the Gopher Hockey program and college hockey than Mike Guentzel,” said Lucia. “Mike was a great leader on the ice for the Gophers as a captain, and he has dedicated his career to being an equally great coach for us. In my opinion there isn’t a better coach in the nation for defensive prospects and for that matter, there isn’t a coach that cares more about his players and his program.”

In a statement last season at this time, Lucia mentioned Mike Guentzel as his choice to replacement him:

"Mike has certainly paid his dues," Lucia said. "He'd be the logical one to take over. He's obviously someone that I would endorse. He's very passionate. He's knowledgeable. He was a former captain. If I could wave my magic wand, which I don't get to do, I think he's earned the right to get the next opportunity here."

At the risk of being personally attacked for sharing a currently unconventional opinion on a discussion forum, I would have liked to have seen what MG as head coach would have brought to the table. His family bleeds hockey and I feel badly for him that he didn't get the job he'd been waiting for throughout his career.

Motzko stated that choosing his assts. will take more time. I wouldn't be surprised if we've seen the last of MG behind the Gopher bench.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

I think MG's approach to defensive integration is really very effective - among the best in the nation. I wouldn't be surprised if forwards got spoiled because of it.

Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if negative attitudes in the coaching staff exhibited on the bench contributed largely to passing the torch. If that's true, MG will likely not return.

 

[D2D]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

Motzko stated that choosing his assts. will take more time. I wouldn't be surprised if we've seen the last of MG behind the Gopher bench.

One would think that the longer it takes for Motzko to name his assistants the more likely it becomes that MG will not return.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

Don Lucia was delegating a lot more to his assts. in the past couple years, but MG's job description was limited to the defense. He spent 21 years as a Gopher asst. under Doug Woog and Don Lucia and returned to the Gophers from Omaha in 2011 with a view to replacing Don Lucia whenever that time arrived. Brad Berry had 10 yrs. experience as an asst. at UND before being appointed as head coach.

Mike coached two Hobey Baker Award winners, 16 All-Americans and helped develop 29 NHL defenseman.

Some fans may not realize that last year about this time MG was honored by his NCAA D1 peers at the American Hockey Coaches Association convention in Naples, Fla. with the Terry Flanagan Award recognizing his career work as one of the top assistant coaches in college hockey.



In a statement last season at this time, Lucia mentioned Mike Guentzel as his choice to replacement him:



At the risk of being personally attacked for sharing a currently unconventional opinion on a discussion forum, I would have liked to have seen what MG as head coach would have brought to the table. His family bleeds hockey and I feel badly for him that he didn't get the job he'd been waiting for throughout his career.

Motzko stated that choosing his assts. will take more time. I wouldn't be surprised if we've seen the last of MG behind the Gopher bench.

I really like and respect Mike Guentzel, but I don't think he was the right guy for the job. The program hasn't met expectations the past 4 years, and he isn't immune to some culpability. Especially when our defense has been lackluster the past 4 years.

I am arguably as provincial as they come and am a self-professed Gopher homer, but even I don't care too much about the "bleeds for the program" angle. In fact, that sounds an awful lot like the rhetoric coming from a small faction of our alumni that I detest. It hurts the program more than it helps.

Nothing against coach Guentzel. I am a big Mike Guentzel fan. If he moves on, I wish him well.

 

[Greenbayguy]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

I agree with this statement; not only was there a downward trend in productivity, but there should be an understanding that for Motzko to right the ship, he gets his own people. If that's Guentzel fine, if that's Bell fine, but he shouldn't be tied to them both.

 

[Koho]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

I really like and respect Mike Guentzel, but I don't think he was the right guy for the job. The program hasn't met expectations the past 4 years, and he isn't immune to some culpability. Especially when our defense has been lackluster the past 4 years.

I am arguably as provincial as they come and am a self-professed Gopher homer, but even I don't care too much about the "bleeds for the program" angle. In fact, that sounds an awful lot like the rhetoric coming from a small faction of our alumni that I detest. It hurts the program more than it helps.

Nothing against coach Guentzel. I am a big Mike Guentzel fan. If he moves on, I wish him well.

First, I find it interesting how so many people can judge an assistant coach, without seeing more than how they perform in front of the camera. Why do people think Guentzel was a star coach when he took over for Hill but now question his coaching. Yes, I understand. Performance of the D wasn't great this year. But how do you factor out guys who were recruited young just not being able to meet the projections of the past. NHL scouts thought these guys looked pretty good, not that long ago. Do people think all the players Guentzel developed in the past were a fluke, or that he has lost the ability to coach them recently? Could it be more about the recent players skills than the coaching, perhaps? I realize this is the internet and the point is speculation, but so many people seem to have switched on Guentzel in a few years, and I don't think he has necessarily changed. More importantly, there are a lot of factors to consider that we as fans don't see.

As for the people who assume he is gone because Motzko is delaying naming someone, did you ever think that maybe Motzko is purposely waiting for the dust to settle. He may be strongly considering Guentzel but knows that he needs a cooling off period before he might consider returning to the Gophers? Or maybe he is thinking he wants to see who SCSU offers to so he doesn't get an assistant to commit, then that person turns around and get hired at SCSU as the HC. Hard to know from our cheap seats.

And as for having an "M" guy, I am one who thinks having that is something worth considering. A lot of our recruits talk about always having wanted to be a Gopher. Some players were that way when they were younger and it faded some as they saw more options. (A top recruit to UND was that way.) A coach who can speak from the heart about what the Gopher Program has meant to them on the recruiting trail and the legacy of the program from personal experience will likely make a difference in some of these cases. It sets MN apart from most schools. I don't want to see all three coaches being from elsewhere for this reason. I don't think they all need to be "M" men either, you want your best option, especially at HC. So while there is that faction of alums that have had a negative influence with their insistence on all alum coaches and MN players, I believe maintaining some level of that Legacy and pride on the bench has value.

I don't pretend to be an expert judge of coaches so will wait and see how things go over teh next several years. But a lot of people who know better than I, including Lucia, who despite possibly having had some personality conflicts with him at times, speak highly of Guentzel's coaching ability and commitment to the job and the program. I would understand if Motzko wants a fresh start, or if Guentzel decides to leave. But I would be fine with Guentzel being brought back, despite how the D performed this last year. I think the evidence points to him being a good coach, and as I stated above, having someone with that level of commitment to the Legacy of the program I just can't see how it would be a negative.

 

[D2D]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

But a lot of people who know better than I, including Lucia, who despite possibly having had some personality conflicts with him at times, speak highly of Guentzel's coaching ability and commitment to the job and the program.

I think the timing of when Lucia spoke highly of Guentzel is something to consider. If I'm not mistaken, he has not voiced an opinion or given any kind of a recommendation, at least publicly, since he announced his retirement. Before that, yes, he was very supportive, but no way would he say anything different with games yet to be played.

I haven't done any research on other recent coaching changes, but how often has a new head coach retained his existing coaching staff vs. bringing in his own? Doing the latter would eliminate any possibility of:

(a) any lingering resentment (MG was interviewed and obviously wanted the job) and
(b) internal friction/disagreements between what Motzko wants to do (the new) and the way MG and Lucia have been doing things for so many years (the old).

After thinking about this I've come to the conclusion that a totally fresh start would be best for the program. This assumes that Motzko can identify and bring in the guys he needs to form a cohesive staff that are all on the same page - Motzko's page.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

First, I find it interesting how so many people can judge an assistant coach, without seeing more than how they perform in front of the camera. Why do people think Guentzel was a star coach when he took over for Hill but now question his coaching. Yes, I understand. Performance of the D wasn't great this year. But how do you factor out guys who were recruited young just not being able to meet the projections of the past. NHL scouts thought these guys looked pretty good, not that long ago. Do people think all the players Guentzel developed in the past were a fluke, or that he has lost the ability to coach them recently? Could it be more about the recent players skills than the coaching, perhaps? I realize this is the internet and the point is speculation, but so many people seem to have switched on Guentzel in a few years, and I don't think he has necessarily changed. More importantly, there are a lot of factors to consider that we as fans don't see.

As for the people who assume he is gone because Motzko is delaying naming someone, did you ever think that maybe Motzko is purposely waiting for the dust to settle. He may be strongly considering Guentzel but knows that he needs a cooling off period before he might consider returning to the Gophers? Or maybe he is thinking he wants to see who SCSU offers to so he doesn't get an assistant to commit, then that person turns around and get hired at SCSU as the HC. Hard to know from our cheap seats.

And as for having an "M" guy, I am one who thinks having that is something worth considering. A lot of our recruits talk about always having wanted to be a Gopher. Some players were that way when they were younger and it faded some as they saw more options. (A top recruit to UND was that way.) A coach who can speak from the heart about what the Gopher Program has meant to them on the recruiting trail and the legacy of the program from personal experience will likely make a difference in some of these cases. It sets MN apart from most schools. I don't want to see all three coaches being from elsewhere for this reason. I don't think they all need to be "M" men either, you want your best option, especially at HC. So while there is that faction of alums that have had a negative influence with their insistence on all alum coaches and MN players, I believe maintaining some level of that Legacy and pride on the bench has value.

I don't pretend to be an expert judge of coaches so will wait and see how things go over teh next several years. But a lot of people who know better than I, including Lucia, who despite possibly having had some personality conflicts with him at times, speak highly of Guentzel's coaching ability and commitment to the job and the program. I would understand if Motzko wants a fresh start, or if Guentzel decides to leave. But I would be fine with Guentzel being brought back, despite how the D performed this last year. I think the evidence points to him being a good coach, and as I stated above, having someone with that level of commitment to the Legacy of the program I just can't see how it would be a negative.

I find it equally as puzzling that some are so defensive about him not getting the job. I'm not either judging Mike, or claiming to be an expert. I am just stating my opinion. He doesn't have any college head coaching experience and he was in charge of a D corps that has struggled the past 4 years. That doesn't mean he can't be a great head coach. It also doesn't excuse him from any and all culpability in this program's struggles the last 4 years.

Again, I like Mike Guentzel. I am just not all that upset that he didn't get the head coaching job. And I certainly don't think that he was "owed" anything by the university. You need to earn a head coaching position, and there are differing opinions on whether or not his job performance earned that. You seem to think he proved capable, but I am not as sure on that.

I preferred a coach from outside the current staff, and we got that. I would love to see Mike stay on the staff to coach, but I am guessing he won't want to do that, which I cannot fault him for.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

And I will add this - The more people say that Mike Guentzel was "owed" the job (not saying anyone here has, but I have read that elsewhere), the more content I am that he didn't get the job. I don't want our coaching decisions to be made on ANYTHING other than coaching, talent development, and recruiting merits. I could care less if he is an alum or not or whether or not he is passionate about Gopher hockey. I care about talent evaluation, recruiting prowess, and coaching ability when it comes to filling our head coaching positions. I don't want to ever get to the point where we are just passing the torch to the guy who is the biggest cheerleader or has been around the longest.

Again, not saying that Mike Guentzel isn't good or great at any of those, I am just less confident in his ability than I was 5 years ago and I wanted to see a shakeup. Just my $0.02.

 

[Koho]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

And I will add this - The more people say that Mike Guentzel was "owed" the job (not saying anyone here has, but I have read that elsewhere), the more content I am that he didn't get the job. I don't want our coaching decisions to be made on ANYTHING other than coaching, talent development, and recruiting merits. I could care less if he is an alum or not or whether or not he is passionate about Gopher hockey. I care about talent evaluation, recruiting prowess, and coaching ability when it comes to filling our head coaching positions. I don't want to ever get to the point where we are just passing the torch to the guy who is the biggest cheerleader or has been around the longest.

Again, not saying that Mike Guentzel isn't good or great at any of those, I am just less confident in his ability than I was 5 years ago and I wanted to see a shakeup. Just my $0.02.

So I have never felt or said that he was owed the job. (My point was that we don't really know how good of a coach he was.) But I am guessing the people who state this are not using his dedication to the program as the only criteria. I think they are probably just not stating the facts about what made him a good coach (coaching, recruiting, talent development), and saying that commitment to the U should have pushed him over the top. I know I didn't feel like Motzko or anyone else was a sure homerun. Motzko was a new direction. Probably as good of a choice as any, but not the same as when it was a two horse race between Lucia and Blais. And I am guessing the people who regularly stated Lucia's more recent performance in the NCAA's weren't pumped about Bob's record. I think the people who felt Guentzel should have gotten the job recognize the affect the change in the recruiting landscape has had on college hockey so don't feel that the program was in the death spiral some felt and therefore a completely new direction wasn't necessary. I agree that dedication shouldn't be the primary factor in promoting a person, but it does have some value at a place like MN where you are recruiting based on the dedication generations of players have to the school and because the job is a grind where you want to be sure the motivation is there to go the extra mile. I am guessing that these people feel that there is enough value in this that it more than balances out his lack of HC experience. And I don't see how this is necessarily completely wrong and a person who says Guentzel wasn't right for the job is completely correct, when none of us are really in a position to accurately gauge this. There were people who know a lot better than us what his abilities area as a coach that were on both sides of the fence on this one.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

So I have never felt or said that he was owed the job. (My point was that we don't really know how good of a coach he was.) But I am guessing the people who state this are not using his dedication to the program as the only criteria. I think they are probably just not stating the facts about what made him a good coach (coaching, recruiting, talent development), and saying that commitment to the U should have pushed him over the top. I know I didn't feel like Motzko or anyone else was a sure homerun. Motzko was a new direction. Probably as good of a choice as any, but not the same as when it was a two horse race between Lucia and Blais. And I am guessing the people who regularly stated Lucia's more recent performance in the NCAA's weren't pumped about Bob's record. I think the people who felt Guentzel should have gotten the job recognize the affect the change in the recruiting landscape has had on college hockey so don't feel that the program was in the death spiral some felt and therefore a completely new direction wasn't necessary. I agree that dedication shouldn't be the primary factor in promoting a person, but it does have some value at a place like MN where you are recruiting based on the dedication generations of players have to the school and because the job is a grind where you want to be sure the motivation is there to go the extra mile. I am guessing that these people feel that there is enough value in this that it more than balances out his lack of HC experience. And I don't see how this is necessarily completely wrong and a person who says Guentzel wasn't right for the job is completely correct, when none of us are really in a position to accurately gauge this. There were people who know a lot better than us what his abilities area as a coach that were on both sides of the fence on this one.

I agree 100% that none of us really know how well Guentzel would have done in the job and none of us really know how good Motzko will do in this job yet. Like you said, there was no slam dunk choices like there were when Lucia was hired. And I can respect your opinion that Guentzel should have gotten the job. I wouldn't have been upset had he gotten the job, but I am not upset that he didn't get it.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

I think the timing of when Lucia spoke highly of Guentzel is something to consider. If I'm not mistaken, he has not voiced an opinion or given any kind of a recommendation, at least publicly, since he announced his retirement. Before that, yes, he was very supportive, but no way would he say anything different with games yet to be played.

I haven't done any research on other recent coaching changes, but how often has a new head coach retained his existing coaching staff vs. bringing in his own? Doing the latter would eliminate any possibility of:

(a) any lingering resentment (MG was interviewed and obviously wanted the job) and
(b) internal friction/disagreements between what Motzko wants to do (the new) and the way MG and Lucia have been doing things for so many years (the old).

After thinking about this I've come to the conclusion that a totally fresh start would be best for the program. This assumes that Motzko can identify and bring in the guys he needs to form a cohesive staff that are all on the same page - Motzko's page.

Lucia is still being paid by the U's athletics department, and will have a private voice on some (many?) things over the next year. He's in a spot where he can't really say anything publicly without creating problems fort he U's recruiting/hiring process. He pretty much has to stay quiet until all hiring decisions are made.

 

[D2D]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

Lucia is still being paid by the U's athletics department, and will have a private voice on some (many?) things over the next year. He's in a spot where he can't really say anything publicly without creating problems fort he U's recruiting/hiring process. He pretty much has to stay quiet until all hiring decisions are made.

Understood. Unlikely, but if Lucia did have any (private) input on the hire, either with Coyle or the committee - or both - I wonder which one he favored.

 

[Koho]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

I agree 100% that none of us really know how well Guentzel would have done in the job and none of us really know how good Motzko will do in this job yet. Like you said, there was no slam dunk choices like there were when Lucia was hired. And I can respect your opinion that Guentzel should have gotten the job. I wouldn't have been upset had he gotten the job, but I am not upset that he didn't get it.

Actually, I didn't think Guentzel should have, or shouldn't gotten it. I really didn't have an opinion on the best route. Just that I could see both sides. Same with assistants. Think the HC should have the freedom to chose who he thinks is best for the job (as I think Lucia should have for the last hire), but I think that having at least one person who has a history with the program has definite benefits.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

Actually, I didn't think Guentzel should have, or shouldn't gotten it. I really didn't have an opinion on the best route. Just that I could see both sides. Same with assistants. Think the HC should have the freedom to chose who he thinks is best for the job (as I think Lucia should have for the last hire), but I think that having at least one person who has a history with the program has definite benefits.

I agree on all those points.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

For those of you who haven't seen the tribute to Don from @FakeDonLucia...its pretty great. Start it back on March 17:

https://twitter.com/FakeDonLucia?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

I ****in hate Duluth but their style of play (at least until they get a lead and pack it in) is infinitely better than what the Gophers were doing this year and it’s not shocking that they won. I honestly have no idea how good their goalie actually is because he never had to do anything difficult. And they did it with a pretty young group from what I understand.

From what Bob has said so far hopefully we can expect similar from this team in the near future.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

I ****in hate Duluth but their style of play (at least until they get a lead and pack it in) is infinitely better than what the Gophers were doing this year and it’s not shocking that they won. I honestly have no idea how good their goalie actually is because he never had to do anything difficult. And they did it with a pretty young group from what I understand.

From what Bob has said so far hopefully we can expect similar from this team in the near future.

The one thing that struck me about UMD last night....was the fact that they almost never lost a one on one battle. ND couldn't get anything going because they'd get moving and then lose a one on one somewhere on the ice.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

The one thing that struck me about UMD last night....was the fact that they almost never lost a one on one battle. ND couldn't get anything going because they'd get moving and then lose a one on one somewhere on the ice.

I think it's in part due to the constant pressure UMD exerts in all 3 zones. Especially in the offensive zone, they aren't afraid to pinch or go all in one the forecheck sending at least 2 guys and if ND threw it to the boards that Dman would immediately pinch. In the neutral and D zone they consistently got in their opponents' faces as well and they barely conceded any good opportunities the whole tournament it seemed like. It's impressive how good their young blue line is and even in the first game against them this year it was obvious that they were playing a much better brand of hockey than we were. I can't say I watched all 59 college hockey teams this year but if any team from this year reminds me of how the Penguins play it's Duluth.