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Minnesota Golden Gopher Women's Hockey 2012-2013
- Thread starter brookyone
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Blackbeard
Well-known member
Silent But Deadly
New member
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Women's Hockey 2012-2013
I'm not sure if LaShomb's stick was under Menefee's neck or arm but I am pretty sure that Menefee didn't lose her balance. I'm even more sure that LaShomb had plenty of leverage and utilized it to it's fullest. Looked about as intentionial as the cross check to Terry to me.
I'm not sure if LaShomb's stick was under Menefee's neck or arm but I am pretty sure that Menefee didn't lose her balance. I'm even more sure that LaShomb had plenty of leverage and utilized it to it's fullest. Looked about as intentionial as the cross check to Terry to me.
Blackbeard
Well-known member
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Women's Hockey 2012-2013
If you take the time to look at it frame by frame, and it's not easy because it happens so fast and you've got to be quick on the clicker to see the appropriate frames...I had to do it several times before I saw the appropriate frames), LaShomb's stick is definitely lower than Menefee's right arm. That doesn't mean to say that her blade wasn't curling up towards Menefee's neck but it certainly wasn't wrapped around her neck. The blade is only so long and the distance between them made it impossible for her blade to wrap around Menefee's neck.
I'm not saying that she necessarily wasn't assisted to the ice. It looked to me like a combination of the two. We've all seen many times someone doing what Menefee did who turns instantly from a full speed rush after slamming on the brakes as she did with her body leaning backwards trying to move 180 degrees away from the net...it is extremely difficult for a player to get her strong leg, in this case her left leg, from out in front of herself in time to pull it back underneath herself in order to prevent herself from falling or more often than not, stumbling.
That is what it appears to me that happened with some small assistance from LaShomb.
If you watch it very closely frame by frame with cold objectivity you will at least see where her stick was in relation to Menefee's right arm and the rest flows from there.
If you take the time to look at it frame by frame, and it's not easy because it happens so fast and you've got to be quick on the clicker to see the appropriate frames...I had to do it several times before I saw the appropriate frames), LaShomb's stick is definitely lower than Menefee's right arm. That doesn't mean to say that her blade wasn't curling up towards Menefee's neck but it certainly wasn't wrapped around her neck. The blade is only so long and the distance between them made it impossible for her blade to wrap around Menefee's neck.
I'm not saying that she necessarily wasn't assisted to the ice. It looked to me like a combination of the two. We've all seen many times someone doing what Menefee did who turns instantly from a full speed rush after slamming on the brakes as she did with her body leaning backwards trying to move 180 degrees away from the net...it is extremely difficult for a player to get her strong leg, in this case her left leg, from out in front of herself in time to pull it back underneath herself in order to prevent herself from falling or more often than not, stumbling.
That is what it appears to me that happened with some small assistance from LaShomb.
If you watch it very closely frame by frame with cold objectivity you will at least see where her stick was in relation to Menefee's right arm and the rest flows from there.
mnpokecheck
Drinking the Koolaid
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Women's Hockey 2012-2013
Really - lol - frame by frame.
She didn't shoot her or impale her on a spike. She took a cheap shot which happens many times a game - if it gets out of hand the players and coaches will address it in their own ways.
Really - lol - frame by frame.
She didn't shoot her or impale her on a spike. She took a cheap shot which happens many times a game - if it gets out of hand the players and coaches will address it in their own ways.Blackbeard
Well-known member
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Women's Hockey 2012-2013
???...did you take the time to watch it carefully?
???...did you take the time to watch it carefully?
HockeyEast33
New member
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Women's Hockey 2012-2013
The thing I now notice most about Lashomb after looking at a number of clips is that she is on the ice for a lot of goals against. I guess that speaks to the quality of her play (or lack thereof) and why she has pent up anger all the time.
The thing I now notice most about Lashomb after looking at a number of clips is that she is on the ice for a lot of goals against. I guess that speaks to the quality of her play (or lack thereof) and why she has pent up anger all the time.
mnpokecheck
Drinking the Koolaid
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Women's Hockey 2012-2013
My comment was about the seriousness of your frame by frame critique. But yes I did look at it and IMO she hooked the scorer and intentionally pulled her down - a cheap shot, but hey there's elbows, head shots, holds, slashes and trips by most teams every game. It's not that big a deal, nobody was likely to get injured on her hook - should have been a penalty. Now the cross-check on Saturday was different and worthy of a 1-2 game suspension to start next season.
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Women's Hockey 2012-2013
Here's the link to a Fox Sports North video that ran last Friday during the Gopher men's hockey game that looks at the Gopher women's three Patty Kaz finalists.
http://t.co/KqtHuinnkw
Here's the link to a Fox Sports North video that ran last Friday during the Gopher men's hockey game that looks at the Gopher women's three Patty Kaz finalists.
http://t.co/KqtHuinnkw
Blackbeard
Well-known member
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Women's Hockey 2012-2013
The claim by the person who posted the video was that "here she hooks Menefee around the neck". It's absolutely impossible to tell in real time what happened. The only way to determine the facts in this particular instance, if one is interested in the facts, is to try to watch it as close to frame by frame as one can. If you equate attempting to determine the facts with "the seriousness of" my "frame by frame critique" then I'd have to agree with you.
I have no skin in this particular game and therefore am not potentially impeded by viewing the video through homer glasses and, as well, have in the past stated on this forum that I think that UND is consistently a very greasy team but neither do I think that it is right to accuse someone of an act that didn't occur, regardless of what the "perpetrator's" reputation might otherwise be, thereby automatically jumping onto the collectively convenient bandwagon of indignation.
LaShomb may or may not have intended worse in this particular instance, only she would know that...not you and not me... but the facts provided by the video prove that Menefee was, in fact, not hooked around the neck. It also shows that whatever assistance LaShomb provided in Menefee's being introduced to the ice was approaching negligible and at the very least, headed in that direction. If you think otherwise then you are also stating that LaShomb has the ability to repeal the laws of physics. It's all there in the video for eyes that are prepared to take the time to actually see.
And for the record, I do not think that the original poster intentionally made the inacurrate claim.
The claim by the person who posted the video was that "here she hooks Menefee around the neck". It's absolutely impossible to tell in real time what happened. The only way to determine the facts in this particular instance, if one is interested in the facts, is to try to watch it as close to frame by frame as one can. If you equate attempting to determine the facts with "the seriousness of" my "frame by frame critique" then I'd have to agree with you.
I have no skin in this particular game and therefore am not potentially impeded by viewing the video through homer glasses and, as well, have in the past stated on this forum that I think that UND is consistently a very greasy team but neither do I think that it is right to accuse someone of an act that didn't occur, regardless of what the "perpetrator's" reputation might otherwise be, thereby automatically jumping onto the collectively convenient bandwagon of indignation.
LaShomb may or may not have intended worse in this particular instance, only she would know that...not you and not me... but the facts provided by the video prove that Menefee was, in fact, not hooked around the neck. It also shows that whatever assistance LaShomb provided in Menefee's being introduced to the ice was approaching negligible and at the very least, headed in that direction. If you think otherwise then you are also stating that LaShomb has the ability to repeal the laws of physics. It's all there in the video for eyes that are prepared to take the time to actually see.
And for the record, I do not think that the original poster intentionally made the inacurrate claim.
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Women's Hockey 2012-2013
My "around the neck" claim was more of the order of "in the area", e.g. "I haven't seen you around the forum," rather than "encircling or surrounding." I thought her stick blade was someplace that it had no business being. The reason that it is that high may be because Menefee lifted her stick to celebrate, and LaShomb's stick followed. That is possible.
As for your "repeal the laws of physics," comment, I can only guess that you don't know much about vector forces. Wherever the butt end of the stick goes, the blade will have to follow. Typically what players do in a situation like that is they allow some slack in their holding of the stick so that the person who is tangled has a chance to free herself. They stop moving away or allow their arms to go slack so that there isn't any tension. One sees that all the time at the conclusion of a play or when players separate, because they've been taught to be responsible for their stick so as not to injure or draw penalties. In this case, #4 skates away and pulls her right hand, and the knob of the stick, away. Both contribute to the force that is transferred to Menefee through the stick blade. She didn't fall on her own. You are correct that this could be unintentional, because I don't claim to be reading her mind. But she certainly made no attempt to extricate her stick safely, and that's what I'm used to seeing the vast majority of the time from players. Be responsible for your stick at all times.
If you want to analyze more video, go look at other highlights from other UND vs UM games, and whenever there is somebody involved when the other team is celebrating, it is always #4. I haven't looked at games versus other opponents, so I don't know if there is a pattern outside of games versus the Gophers. Overall, there could be inaccuracies in what I wrote, just as your "laws of physics" claim has been incorrectly applied here. I saw this play at the time it happened, but did not comment until the escalation of an ill-advised reaction in the wake of a goal against.
Sorry, I've been busy with other things while you were analyzing the "Zapruder Tape."
My "around the neck" claim was more of the order of "in the area", e.g. "I haven't seen you around the forum," rather than "encircling or surrounding." I thought her stick blade was someplace that it had no business being. The reason that it is that high may be because Menefee lifted her stick to celebrate, and LaShomb's stick followed. That is possible.As for your "repeal the laws of physics," comment, I can only guess that you don't know much about vector forces. Wherever the butt end of the stick goes, the blade will have to follow. Typically what players do in a situation like that is they allow some slack in their holding of the stick so that the person who is tangled has a chance to free herself. They stop moving away or allow their arms to go slack so that there isn't any tension. One sees that all the time at the conclusion of a play or when players separate, because they've been taught to be responsible for their stick so as not to injure or draw penalties. In this case, #4 skates away and pulls her right hand, and the knob of the stick, away. Both contribute to the force that is transferred to Menefee through the stick blade. She didn't fall on her own. You are correct that this could be unintentional, because I don't claim to be reading her mind. But she certainly made no attempt to extricate her stick safely, and that's what I'm used to seeing the vast majority of the time from players. Be responsible for your stick at all times.
If you want to analyze more video, go look at other highlights from other UND vs UM games, and whenever there is somebody involved when the other team is celebrating, it is always #4. I haven't looked at games versus other opponents, so I don't know if there is a pattern outside of games versus the Gophers. Overall, there could be inaccuracies in what I wrote, just as your "laws of physics" claim has been incorrectly applied here. I saw this play at the time it happened, but did not comment until the escalation of an ill-advised reaction in the wake of a goal against.
Blackbeard
Well-known member
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Women's Hockey 2012-2013
As I've made clear, I make no claims as to whether or not LaShomb is an angel. My comments have been restricted to this one particular play.
My "physics" comment was predicated on both Menefee's already compromised physical position without any help from anybody else and equally on LaShomb's physical position in relation to Menefee's which would allow LaShomb very little leverage to haul down Menefee if that was her intent and further on the fact that LaShomb's direction of motion away from Menefee was at an angle that continually decreased any leverage that she might otherwise have had. And it decreased it in the blink of an eye so her window of "opportunity" was infinitesimal.
Was her stick around Menefee's chest area?...in a hooking position?...Of course it was. It was just lower than Menefee's right arm.
I've also made clear that I think it was a combination of the two...Menefee's very awkward position and a little help from LaShomb, whatever little she could have physically provided given the above, but also understanding that it would only have taken very little assistance from La Shomb to get Menefee to the ice due to Menefee's already compromised physical position.
After the "frame by frame" comment by the previous poster the same analogy that you mentioned flashed through my mind. Regardless of what the video shows I suppose there will still be those who think LaShomb was concealed behind the fence under the shade tree on the grassy knoll. So be it. My only interest once I saw the video was in the accuracy of what she may or may not have done and how much opportunity she may have had, if any, to do it.
And thanks for the lesson on vector forces. Who woulda thunk?
Sorry, I've been busy with other things while you were analyzing the "Zapruder Tape."
As for your "repeal the laws of physics," comment, I can only guess that you don't know much about vector forces. Wherever the butt end of the stick goes, the blade will have to follow. Typically what players do in a situation like that is they allow some slack in their holding of the stick so that the person who is tangled has a chance to free herself. They stop moving away or allow their arms to go slack so that there isn't any tension. One sees that all the time at the conclusion of a play or when players separate, because they've been taught to be responsible for their stick so as not to injure or draw penalties. In this case, #4 skates away and pulls her right hand, and the knob of the stick, away. Both contribute to the force that is transferred to Menefee through the stick blade. She didn't fall on her own. You are correct that this could be unintentional, because I don't claim to be reading her mind. But she certainly made no attempt to extricate her stick safely, and that's what I'm used to seeing the vast majority of the time from players. Be responsible for your stick at all times.
If you want to analyze more video, go look at other highlights from other UND vs UM games, and whenever there is somebody involved when the other team is celebrating, it is always #4. I haven't looked at games versus other opponents, so I don't know if there is a pattern outside of games versus the Gophers. Overall, there could be inaccuracies in what I wrote, just as your "laws of physics" claim has been incorrectly applied here. I saw this play at the time it happened, but did not comment until the escalation of an ill-advised reaction in the wake of a goal against.
As I've made clear, I make no claims as to whether or not LaShomb is an angel. My comments have been restricted to this one particular play.
My "physics" comment was predicated on both Menefee's already compromised physical position without any help from anybody else and equally on LaShomb's physical position in relation to Menefee's which would allow LaShomb very little leverage to haul down Menefee if that was her intent and further on the fact that LaShomb's direction of motion away from Menefee was at an angle that continually decreased any leverage that she might otherwise have had. And it decreased it in the blink of an eye so her window of "opportunity" was infinitesimal.
Was her stick around Menefee's chest area?...in a hooking position?...Of course it was. It was just lower than Menefee's right arm.
I've also made clear that I think it was a combination of the two...Menefee's very awkward position and a little help from LaShomb, whatever little she could have physically provided given the above, but also understanding that it would only have taken very little assistance from La Shomb to get Menefee to the ice due to Menefee's already compromised physical position.
After the "frame by frame" comment by the previous poster the same analogy that you mentioned flashed through my mind. Regardless of what the video shows I suppose there will still be those who think LaShomb was concealed behind the fence under the shade tree on the grassy knoll. So be it. My only interest once I saw the video was in the accuracy of what she may or may not have done and how much opportunity she may have had, if any, to do it.
And thanks for the lesson on vector forces. Who woulda thunk?
CanHockGuy
New member
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Women's Hockey 2012-2013
Yes...#4....my bad. Had 5 on my mind with a game I guess.... Sorry to #5, if there is one.
Yes...#4....my bad. Had 5 on my mind with a game I guess.... Sorry to #5, if there is one.
Blackbeard
Well-known member
FiveHoleFrenzy
Well-known member
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Women's Hockey 2012-2013
Certainly some interesting opinions on what will take place this Friday, especially from the aspect of what BC will bring to the table. Case in point from today's WW article referring to Minnesota not having seen the speed of a team like BC. Maybe so, but then again ARM pointed out that Minnesota practices against itself having players with world class speed of their own on the roster.
We will see how BC deals with what Minnesota brings to the table, which is the most complete team from goaltender out, that BC has faced this year.
Certainly some interesting opinions on what will take place this Friday, especially from the aspect of what BC will bring to the table. Case in point from today's WW article referring to Minnesota not having seen the speed of a team like BC. Maybe so, but then again ARM pointed out that Minnesota practices against itself having players with world class speed of their own on the roster.
We will see how BC deals with what Minnesota brings to the table, which is the most complete team from goaltender out, that BC has faced this year.
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bluffrinkrat
New member
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Women's Hockey 2012-2013
I agree with Candace that there should be some sort of sanction on LaShomb (perhaps having to sit for ND's opening game next fall) for her cross-check on Kelly Terry. I'm not sure even the not so saintly Saint Jarrin' John Bailey would have taken that cheap shot at the end of a game. He may have split an opposing player's head open with his stick or fist in the 3rd period to get the crowd charged up, but not after the game was already over. Other than that, it was very exciting to be at Ridder last Saturday. In fifty years or so of watching hockey I've never seen a game where two teams seemed to leave everything they had on the ice any more than that. Well, there was that state bantam tournament up in Hibbing in 1962, but that's another story. One last thought, this time concerning the two players formerly known as the "traitor twins." Well, at least considered that by a few ND fans we saw at Engelstad arena in December of 2009. You two have been fun to watch both in cheering for you for two years and against you for three. A somewhat left-handed thank you for making the North Dakota hockey program better because competitive hockey is always more fun to watch. Now, if my alma mater Mankato can just get going. I wonder if wearing my very old purple and white jersey under my Gopher sweatshirt would help. Definitely not and it wouldn't fit anyway.
I agree with Candace that there should be some sort of sanction on LaShomb (perhaps having to sit for ND's opening game next fall) for her cross-check on Kelly Terry. I'm not sure even the not so saintly Saint Jarrin' John Bailey would have taken that cheap shot at the end of a game. He may have split an opposing player's head open with his stick or fist in the 3rd period to get the crowd charged up, but not after the game was already over. Other than that, it was very exciting to be at Ridder last Saturday. In fifty years or so of watching hockey I've never seen a game where two teams seemed to leave everything they had on the ice any more than that. Well, there was that state bantam tournament up in Hibbing in 1962, but that's another story. One last thought, this time concerning the two players formerly known as the "traitor twins." Well, at least considered that by a few ND fans we saw at Engelstad arena in December of 2009. You two have been fun to watch both in cheering for you for two years and against you for three. A somewhat left-handed thank you for making the North Dakota hockey program better because competitive hockey is always more fun to watch. Now, if my alma mater Mankato can just get going. I wonder if wearing my very old purple and white jersey under my Gopher sweatshirt would help. Definitely not and it wouldn't fit anyway.
brookyone
Deport Right Wing Nuts
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Women's Hockey 2012-2013
http://www.gophersports.com/sports/w-hockey/spec-rel/032013aai.html
http://www.gophersports.com/sports/w-hockey/spec-rel/032013aai.html
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Women's Hockey 2012-2013
Possible. But I'd give a major stick advantage to MN vs. anyone. They just control play.
With all due respect to a very good BC team, 'most complete team' is an understatement. Anyone can be beat in a single game, but MN just beat UND 6 times (a team which would have about the same record as BC if it had not lost to MN 6 times).
To put it another way, BC has a very good KRACH score of 783 (4th in the country)...while MN's score is 21,750.
Possible. But I'd give a major stick advantage to MN vs. anyone. They just control play.
With all due respect to a very good BC team, 'most complete team' is an understatement. Anyone can be beat in a single game, but MN just beat UND 6 times (a team which would have about the same record as BC if it had not lost to MN 6 times).
To put it another way, BC has a very good KRACH score of 783 (4th in the country)...while MN's score is 21,750.
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