Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

[brookyone]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

Do you think the skills advance more during the HS season because longer or AAA because there is typically a higher level of skill and desire per team?

My opinion, AAA by all means with that higher level of skill and generally stronger competition. I think experience in AAA (the more the better) outside the high school season is becoming...or has become a large benefit for those players and landing a D-I roster spot. Plus...it's simply more playing time that the high school only player doesn't get that is an additional advantage.

There is some good competition in HS hockey and players do improve noticeably while playing high school hockey...but the player with AAA experience nearly always seem to be a step or two ahead. I don't know the numbers...but I don't know if there's many players from Minnesota that progress to D-I without some AAA experience anymore. I don't think there are many that do.

 

[giwan]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

My opinion, AAA by all means with that higher level of skill and generally stronger competition. I think experience in AAA (the more the better) outside the high school season is becoming...or has become a large benefit for those players and landing a D-I roster spot. Plus...it's simply more playing time that the high school only player doesn't get that is an additional advantage. There is some good competition in HS hockey and players do improve noticeably while playing high school hockey...but the player with AAA experience nearly always seem to be a step or two ahead. I don't know the numbers...but I don't know if there's many players from Minnesota that progress to D-I without some AAA experience anymore. I don't think there are many that do.

I believe so as well, the AAA player though gets less ice time per week as I am guessing the HS players get at least 5 days

 

[joehockey]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

I believe so as well, the AAA player though gets less ice time per week as I am guessing the HS players get at least 5 days

So the girls HS season goes from the first week of November to mid Februaury - regualar season is 25 games if you go through state you have about 31 games. If you play two games a week you get 3-4 practices of one hour each. Most top players who want to play D1 are training or skating and then playing with a AAA Team maybe a schedule of 15-30 games and then the fall Elite League which is 16-20 games with about one practice. The amount of time or games from March to November is likely more than in a HS season - for some significantly moe.

 

[ARM]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

I think one big advantage that High School programs have over the extended season programs is that the players are much more passionate about the competition. If you ask any player who has experienced success at both which was more meaningful to them, I'd bet that they'll all say the high school hockey was, because they are performing for friends and neighbors. Nothing against the other organizations that do raise the talent level, but I think 6 year old girls dream of playing for "Home Town High" not "ACME AAA Summer Team".

 

[giwan]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

So the girls HS season goes from the first week of November to mid Februaury - regualar season is 25 games if you go through state you have about 31 games. If you play two games a week you get 3-4 practices of one hour each. Most top players who want to play D1 are training or skating and then playing with a AAA Team maybe a schedule of 15-30 games and then the fall Elite League which is 16-20 games with about one practice. The amount of time or games from March to November is likely more than in a HS season - for some significantly moe.

Game time is no where near as helpful as practice time. How often do you touch a puck during a game compared to during practice.

There may be more passion for the school but not for the ice in HS vs AAA. Especially if as in some AAA programs they bring the same girls back again and again

 

[joehockey]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

I agree I think a girl training in the summer is probably doing 4 on ice training vs every game.

The HS memory is very very special - lifetime special. You have a special bond and many of the kids may have played together since they started hockey. By HS though there are very different levels of commitment or focus across a HS Team.

From these summer teams or Elite League though you heighten the competition in HS as the top girls get to play together and know each other - there is no great thrill than to play in the HS season against top players who are friends on opposing Teams (and beat them).

 

[giwan]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

Is girl's HS hockey split into school sizes or does everyone play everyone end of the year?

 

[D2D]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

Is girl's HS hockey split into school sizes or does everyone play everyone end of the year?

There are two classes (A and AA) based on school enrollment. Small schools (A) can voluntarily "opt up" and compete in AA with a two year commitment. Also, subject to approval by the State High School League, schools that do not have enough players to field their own team can pool together ("cooperatives") and compete as one team. These play in either A or AA based on the combined enrollment of the participating schools. At the end of the year there are two state tournaments - one for A and one for AA - and thus two state champions are declared.

Check out Minnesota Hockey Hub [ http://www.mngirlshockeyhub.com/ ] to learn more.

 

[joehockey]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

AA and A Big School and Small 8 Sections in each.

 

[WCHFan]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

Do you think the skills advance more during the HS season because longer or AAA because there is typically a higher level of skill and desire per team?

It's my opinion that by a far margine players advance through the summer. It's not just AAA teams which helps players play at a much higher level then the HS season. I once was speaking with a group of D1 coaches watching a HS winter tourny who said that many Minnesota girls would never get the opportunity with out AAA programs. HS hockey is much slower than AAA hockey. It is AAA teams and summer programs like OS, Fhit, CODP etc. that make the difference.

Only the real high scoring girls would get the opportunity without summer hockey in my oppinion.

 

[ManBehindTheCurtain]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

Horse cart, chicken egg. The best players are playing AAA. Do they get additional opportunities because they play AAA or because they are the best players?

 

[brookyone]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

Horse cart, chicken egg. The best players are playing AAA. Do they get additional opportunities because they play AAA or because they are the best players?

I think it's a "measured" mixture of both that make for a recipe for success. Obviously (I think) it takes a certain skill level to earn and utilize the advantage of AAA experience. Those training programs mentioned by WCHFan are a pretty siginificant part of the equation too I believe.

 

[WCHFan]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

Most of the Minnesota AAA teams are hand picked and usually because the are top in their associations or HS teams. Some choose not to participate because of distance, cost or happy with their summer programs and of course some are left off for various reasons. Don't get mad at me for stating a player have issues like Not a team player, bad attitude and of course the parent issue. Just saying all could have a factor.

The past few season in Minesota there was alway a top Northern team put together and always strong.

 

[D2D]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

Horse cart, chicken egg. The best players are playing AAA. Do they get additional opportunities because they play AAA or because they are the best players?

Also, because they tend to be the most motivated, they (not coincidentally) become the best players and thus get the additional opportunities (another twist to the chicken and egg).

I would also add that the more motivated players can improve tremendously during the high school season IF they are fortunate to get great coaching. Most teams practice every day of the season, except Sunday and days when there are games. Typically the number of practices for an AAA team are not anywhere near that. Besides getting strong coaching in high school it certainly helps if a player is part of a top program (so that they are "pushed" in practice) and one that plays other top teams.

And although not always the case, there are certainly instances of AAA teams being coached by well-meaning parents who are not very good coaches (although this is more true at the younger levels). In those situations the players still get the benefit of game experience against top competition, but if the coaching isn't there and the team doesn't practice very much, the girls pretty much have to figure things out on their own.

 

[WCHFan]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

Also, because they tend to be the most motivated, they (not coincidentally) become the best players and thus get the additional opportunities (another twist to the chicken and egg).

I would also add that the more motivated players can improve tremendously during the high school season IF they are fortunate to get great coaching. Most teams practice every day of the season, except Sunday and days when there are games. Typically the number of practices for an AAA team are not anywhere near that. Besides getting strong coaching in high school it certainly helps if a player is part of a top program (so that they are "pushed" in practice) and one that plays other top teams.

And although not always the case, there are certainly instances of AAA teams being coached by well-meaning parents who are not very good coaches (although this is more true at the younger levels). In those situations the players still get the benefit of game experience against top competition, but if the coaching isn't there and the team doesn't practice very much, the girls pretty much have to figure things out on their own.

Agree. There a few great HS coaches out there who get it. Not only have excellent programs but also PROMOTE their players(contact D1-3 coaches about their players. I would have to say only a few.

 

[SlewFoot]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

I think it's a "measured" mixture of both that make for a recipe for success. Obviously (I think) it takes a certain skill level to earn and utilize the advantage of AAA experience. Those training programs mentioned by WCHFan are a pretty siginificant part of the equation too I believe.

Good discussion. Everyone has an opinion and I think there is some truth to everyone's comments. I have an opinion too and IMHO I think:

1. HS Hockey is inclusive and generates a great interest in girls hockey. Without it I don't think the numbers would be nearly as great as they are. Some kids start playing hockey because of it and get hooked and develop into great players. It is a positive for the sport and I think coaches at the top teams do a good job of developing their talent.

2. AAA is great for exposure to the scouts and coaches. There are really two levels of AAA. The Icecats, Jr. Whitecaps and maybe the Northern Stars are at one level and the rest are somewhere below in overall talent. Top AAA teams give scouts and coaches a chance to see top talent playing against top talent. The scouts and coaches want to see how girls play against best. HS and lower level AAA makes it a little harder to judge talent since good players can dominate against weaker opponents and sometimes embellishes abilities. I agree with the Chicken and Egg discussion. Its hard to determine if AAA makes the player or the player makes AAA. I think that the girls on the top AAA teams get some development (not as much as with 3. below) in that they get a taste of what its like playing at a higher level and get a better understanding of what it takes to succeed.

3. There's a difference between AAA and off season development. The top players will play AAA but the best players also do good offseason work that includes on ice and IMO more importantly off ice training. Girls need to get bigger, stronger and faster to compete at the next level. AAA, NDP, Prospects type of programs, Elite league, etc. are all nice for exposure and have some development benefit but IMO the real work is at places like Minnesota Made, FHIT, Velocity, Potter, CADP, Bjugstad, etc. where girls train hard on taking their skills to the next level.

I'm sure that I'm leaving out lots of stuff and programs (such as the Thoroughbreds, Orange Crush) but I think that's what is happening in Minnesota in a Nutshell.

 

[giwan]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

Well really its not an either or as to getting to the top. You have to play both to get that good. The passion helps make the choice to participate in AAA.

In the end it comes down to 10,000 plus hours of purposeful training. Which leads me to believe that the games in HS can offer less as more teams may be weak. A lot is mentioned about the U19 ie Whitecaps but really it has to be started much younger then that. Not easy to garner that many purposeful hours.

It of course helps greatly that the culture toward hockey in MN is that way.

 

[WCHFan]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

Good discussion. Everyone has an opinion and I think there is some truth to everyone's comments. I have an opinion too and IMHO I think:

1. HS Hockey is inclusive and generates a great interest in girls hockey. Without it I don't think the numbers would be nearly as great as they are. Some kids start playing hockey because of it and get hooked and develop into great players. It is a positive for the sport and I think coaches at the top teams do a good job of developing their talent.

2. AAA is great for exposure to the scouts and coaches. There are really two levels of AAA. The Icecats, Jr. Whitecaps and maybe the Northern Stars are at one level and the rest are somewhere below in overall talent. Top AAA teams give scouts and coaches a chance to see top talent playing against top talent. The scouts and coaches want to see how girls play against best. HS and lower level AAA makes it a little harder to judge talent since good players can dominate against weaker opponents and sometimes embellishes abilities. I agree with the Chicken and Egg discussion. Its hard to determine if AAA makes the player or the player makes AAA. I think that the girls on the top AAA teams get some development (not as much as with 3. below) in that they get a taste of what its like playing at a higher level and get a better understanding of what it takes to succeed.

3. There's a difference between AAA and off season development. The top players will play AAA but the best players also do good offseason work that includes on ice and IMO more importantly off ice training. Girls need to get bigger, stronger and faster to compete at the next level. AAA, NDP, Prospects type of programs, Elite league, etc. are all nice for exposure and have some development benefit but IMO the real work is at places like Minnesota Made, FHIT, Velocity, Potter, CADP, Bjugstad, etc. where girls train hard on taking their skills to the next level.

I'm sure that I'm leaving out lots of stuff and programs (such as the Thoroughbreds, Orange Crush) but I think that's what is happening in Minnesota in a Nutshell.

Agree..

Just the one option you left out which is what I feel the top Program for girls in Minnesota. OS with Winny Brodt and Chris Peterson. I believe they do more for the girls as far as meeting with coaches and promoting Minnesota girls. Yes they have many programs for the average player but the also offer the Elite player options like Prospects which has current college D1-3 coaches come in and actually run a practice. I also feel they were huge in getting the HS Elite league put together which showcases the top Minnesota girls by putting together 3 all star teams along with Shattuck which attracts many college coaches.

 

[SlewFoot]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

Agree..

Just the one option you left out which is what I feel the top Program for girls in Minnesota. OS with Winny Brodt and Chris Peterson. I believe they do more for the girls as far as meeting with coaches and promoting Minnesota girls. Yes they have many programs for the average player but the also offer the Elite player options like Prospects which has current college D1-3 coaches come in and actually run a practice. I also feel they were huge in getting the HS Elite league put together which showcases the top Minnesota girls by putting together 3 all star teams along with Shattuck which attracts many college coaches.

I think you are right about the OS program, at least regarding getting girls exposure but my 3rd point was talking about development. As you point out, the OS Prospects and the Elite program (started in large part by OS) are good exposure programs but IMO not true "development" programs like the others. I know OS has a general training program but I don't know too much about it except it seems to be a short term program (6 - 8 weeks) versus the summer long programs of many of the others (and in the case of FHIT, 8 months - March thru October) and the OS program doesn't have a good hardcore dryland feature that many of the others have.

Also, I agree with giwan that it takes 10,000 hours of purposeful training. I think games are important but IMO games enhance but don't replace dryland and skills training.

 

[giwan]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

Also, I agree with giwan that it takes 10,000 hours of purposeful training. I think games are important but IMO games enhance but don't replace dryland and skills training.

I believe games give you two things. Nothing except a game situation gives you the feel for the speed/intensity in skating, passing and puck handling. The other is the sense or ice vision to see the how the play can develop a couple of passes down the ice.

I believe all other skills can be learned during practice on and off the ice.

If you have not noticed not from MN hence the reason I was asking about MN girls HS hockey. Though I have but have watched many MN AAA competitions.