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Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For More?

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Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For More?

Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For More?

In hindsight he probably got better development with the Pioneers than with Russell, so Russell actually did him a favor.

Yeah, because Russell has ruined every single player he's touched. :rolleyes:

If there's one thing I've learned over the past three or four years, it's that a player's stats in junior hockey are generally not a perfect indicator of success (or lack of it) at the collegiate or major junior levels, except in the case of truly gifted players. This seems to hold true regardless of which school a player decides to attend or team he decides to sign with, and only a few "late bloomers" here and there will surprise people.

With regards to recruiting, people need to face the facts. The school can make all the facilities improvements that they want, bus in all the ladies they think are necessary, and tout the program's history to no end. All of those elements are of minor concern to a potential blue chip recruit. None of that is going to change the school's location, lack of TV/scout exposure, and (for the past two and a half decades) reputation for losing seasons and coaching instability. Now that college hockey has increasingly become a legitimate route to the NHL, the best players are going to go where they stand the greatest chance of getting a pro team's attention, and therefore the days of Tech landing the Espositos and Zukes of today's world any more frequently than, say, once a decade are pretty much over.

I also noticed in the weekly WCHA column that ESPN did a story on the 10 oldest rinks in college hockey. The DECC was 10th oldest and that was built in 1966. Sadly, the JMSIA can't be far from making this list but with the recent improvements I don't see Tech getting a new building in the next 10-15 years.

Ryan J

http://sports.espn.go.com/travel/news/story?id=4796116

The JMSIA won't get replaced for a very long time unless a Ralph Engelstad-type mogul comes along and offers Tech a wad of cash. With the proposed improvements, along with the changes that have already occurred behind the scenes since 2000 (the player facilities improvements, which are what matter the most), I don't see the need for a new building. Nice to have, but not necessary.
 
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Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For More?

Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For More?

Yeah, because Russell has ruined every single player he's touched. :rolleyes:

Actually, he kind of has. I know that silly Russell slappies like you won't agree, but look at Baker. Last year, he was frequently the only offense and grit the team had. This year, he's regressed into a stone-hands puck hog who doesn't backcheck worth a ****. The entire defense plays mediocre at best - Kivisto is now essentially a one-way forward, while Doriott and Nielsen are big, slow, and tend to make more bad decisions than good ones. Both are prime examples of Russell's recruiting ineptitude. Robinson, who showed promise in flashes last season, has seemingly lost all of his confidence and actually looks worse than Bryce Luker, something I did not think was even possible.

The only reason the score in the U of M game was respectable was because the refs gave them a gift, and Hogan is the worst Michigan goaltender in twenty years. Don't let Russell's smooth talk blind you. As you yourself previously speculated, he's lost this team and should be fired this March.
 
Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For More?

Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For More?

Heard this a few days ago, apologize if its already been posted (going back 2 days in an MTU season thread is probably having to read 300 posts) but I figure you guys would enjoy it.

Apparently Wednesday night when the Flames were in St. Paul, Dion Phaneuf and Big John Scott started jawing at each other, and BJS then asked Phaneuf what he was going to do to enjoy his Olympic Break off.
 
Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For More?

Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For More?

Is it newbie season already?
 
Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For Mor

Heard this a few days ago, apologize if its already been posted (going back 2 days in an MTU season thread is probably having to read 300 posts) but I figure you guys would enjoy it.

Apparently Wednesday night when the Flames were in St. Paul, Dion Phaneuf and Big John Scott started jawing at each other, and BJS then asked Phaneuf what he was going to do to enjoy his Olympic Break off.

Mind you Dion Phaneuf missed Olympic team.
 
Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For Mor

Mind you Dion Phaneuf missed Olympic team.

Sorry... thought that was implied with the post, but thanks for pointing that out, I guess some people out there might not know that and would be left scratching their heads (at best!).
 
Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For More?

Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For More?

Heard this a few days ago, apologize if its already been posted (going back 2 days in an MTU season thread is probably having to read 300 posts) but I figure you guys would enjoy it.

Apparently Wednesday night when the Flames were in St. Paul, Dion Phaneuf and Big John Scott started jawing at each other, and BJS then asked Phaneuf what he was going to do to enjoy his Olympic Break off.
Yeah, I saw that already, but it should definitely be repeated! :D

John Scott. Is. Awesome.
Not to be confused with John Scott Rocks, who is complete tool.
Is it newbie season already?
Apparently so, it is second half of the year. I guess we should be getting ready to see threads complaining about why their team went down in pairwise after winning. :rolleyes:
 
Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For More?

Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For More?

Yeah, because Russell has ruined every single player he's touched. :rolleyes:

If there's one thing I've learned over the past three or four years, it's that a player's stats in junior hockey are generally not a perfect indicator of success (or lack of it) at the collegiate or major junior levels, except in the case of truly gifted players. This seems to hold true regardless of which school a player decides to attend or team he decides to sign with, and only a few "late bloomers" here and there will surprise people.

With regards to recruiting, people need to face the facts. The school can make all the facilities improvements that they want, bus in all the ladies they think are necessary, and tout the program's history to no end. All of those elements are of minor concern to a potential blue chip recruit. None of that is going to change the school's location, lack of TV/scout exposure, and (for the past two and a half decades) reputation for losing seasons and coaching instability. Now that college hockey has increasingly become a legitimate route to the NHL, the best players are going to go where they stand the greatest chance of getting a pro team's attention, and therefore the days of Tech landing the Espositos and Zukes of today's world any more frequently than, say, once a decade are pretty much over.

The JMSIA won't get replaced for a very long time unless a Ralph Engelstad-type mogul comes along and offers Tech a wad of cash. With the proposed improvements, along with the changes that have already occurred behind the scenes since 2000 (the player facilities improvements, which are what matter the most), I don't see the need for a new building. Nice to have, but not necessary.
I'm sorry but this program can be doing far better than what it is this year. I don't expect this program to be winning 20 games a year, but to think that this team isn't playing with a team concept to defense anymore is crazy. The fact that a program like Yale can come in and tie Wisconsin while MTU managed to get outscored 14-2 in two games is embarrassing (even with World Junior Players missing), or the fact that RPI can get athletes like D'Amigo to go there but MTU hasn't come close to pulling in anyone that has a shot at any WJ team bothers me. Russell's best man at his wedding is a coach for the USNDT and yet none of those players have committed to MTU since Russell got here. Brett Engelhardt, Bryan Perez, and others previously have come to tech after playing in the USNDT. As for TV/Scout exposure, MTU is on TV as often if not more often than SCSU, Mankato, Duluth, Bemidji, UNO, UAA. I have sat next to scouts at MTU games in Houghton. Scouts go where the players are...

/Rant

I'm just very frustrated with the whole situation atm
 
Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For Mor

Scouts go where the players are...

We saw some at GLI. A player is always going to be seen by scouts no matter who they play for. Anyways it's great to shine when you're playing on the road against another team in front of a scout.
 
Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For Mor

We saw some at GLI. A player is always going to be seen by scouts no matter who they play for. Anyways it's great to shine when you're playing on the road against another team in front of a scout.

For Tech players, this may be the most important purpose for the GLI - they're guaranteed to play at least one team that's otherwise worth scouting. Those scouts won't ignore a standout performer from an otherwise-shabby team. Shame that none of our guys have made the most of it, since 2007 at least.
 
Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For More?

Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For More?

Is it newbie season already?

From the looks of things, I'm afraid so.

And SG, I agree with you that this season and the direction the team has taken have been confounding to the Nth degree, but I don't believe the problem is entirely Russell himself. Games like the UW games, MSU game, etc. displayed that when the team plays as individuals instead of a team, the lack of talent beyond the top line is painfully obvious. 3.5 years ago, Russell showed the way to future competitiveness for the program when he (along with Batty) got a group of mainly grinders and role players with marginal scoring touch to play as a team. I haven't seen much 'team play' since then.
 
Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For Mor

From the looks of things, I'm afraid so.

And SG, I agree with you that this season and the direction the team has taken have been confounding to the Nth degree, but I don't believe the problem is entirely Russell himself. Games like the UW games, MSU game, etc. displayed that when the team plays as individuals instead of a team, the lack of talent beyond the top line is painfully obvious. 3.5 years ago, Russell showed the way to future competitiveness for the program when he (along with Batty) got a group of mainly grinders and role players with marginal scoring touch to play as a team. I haven't seen much 'team play' since then.

If I was a coach the first thing I would do is remove the nameplates from their jerseys.
 
Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For Mor

For Tech players, this may be the most important purpose for the GLI - they're guaranteed to play at least one team that's otherwise worth scouting. Those scouts won't ignore a standout performer from an otherwise-shabby team. Shame that none of our guys have made the most of it, since 2007 at least.
Scouts will go anywhere to find someone that will improve their team...guys like Wilson, Kinrade, Conner, Scott...they were all scouted by NHL clubs IN HOUGHTON and they got chance to play at the next level because they were good enough. A Scouts job is to find the diamond amongst the coal. There are plenty of opportunities to get noticed by scouts when playing for MTU and in the WCHA.
 
Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For More?

Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For More?

OK, so I was wrong about scouting opportunities. That leaves me to ponder some questions:

1. Can JR's Cornell-based systems work in the WCHA over the long term? I don't mean to knock another conference, but the ECAC isn't exactly known for being the toughest league to succeed in, nor has it produced a lot of national champions.

2. In relation to #1, is it fair to say that perhaps we just surprised some teams in 06-07 who didn't take us seriously (Vermont, North Dakota, and Wisconsin all come to mind)?

3. Is Russell so busy recruiting guys who fit "the system", that he's overlooking better talent who could help this program?

This is all stuff I've been thinking about in the past couple of months, and should not be taken as a sign that I think Russell needs to go.
 
Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For More?

Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For More?

This is all stuff I've been thinking about in the past couple of months, and should not be taken as a sign that I think Russell needs to go.

Brilliant :rolleyes:
 
Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For More?

Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For More?

Brilliant :rolleyes:
Wow, its like you're in a beer commercial. Fitting, since that is caliber of commentary you've contributed in your first 2 posts.
 
Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For More?

Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For More?

From the looks of things, I'm afraid so.

And SG, I agree with you that this season and the direction the team has taken have been confounding to the Nth degree, but I don't believe the problem is entirely Russell himself. Games like the UW games, MSU game, etc. displayed that when the team plays as individuals instead of a team, the lack of talent beyond the top line is painfully obvious. 3.5 years ago, Russell showed the way to future competitiveness for the program when he (along with Batty) got a group of mainly grinders and role players with marginal scoring touch to play as a team. I haven't seen much 'team play' since then.

Russell lost the team concept when he made the statement that among the forwards he had a top six and everyone else was a coin toss. First, he doesn't have a top six, maybe a top two (Olson and Baker), the others show up occasionally and have no accountability because they are "top six". It's really hard to know if there is scoring ability after the first line because the lower lines get three or four short shifts per period. Hardly enough time to get into the flow of the game.

end of rant
 
Re: Michigan Tech Season Thread Part IV: You Guys Give Up, Or Are You Thirsty For Mor

Russell lost the team concept when he made the statement that among the forwards he had a top six and everyone else was a coin toss. First, he doesn't have a top six, maybe a top two (Olson and Baker), the others show up occasionally and have no accountability because they are "top six". It's really hard to know if there is scoring ability after the first line because the lower lines get three or four short shifts per period. Hardly enough time to get into the flow of the game.

end of rant

I'd say it's the top one. Olsen, but having said that there are a lot of guys getting better.
More of a problem is the defensive play. Forwards not coming back, and defensemen who are not good at clearing rebounds. I was pleased to see they were able to break out of the zone better than I expected. and I don't agree that the system is flawed. doesn't MSU play the same system.?
 
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