Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?

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[Kepler]

Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?

Agreed to a point. Even WITH the doc's bias...can't argue against the actual court footage of changed testimony/lying, the actual evidence that "happened" to be found during a search that should never have been performed by the certain individuals, etc.

The footage of them collecting "testimony" from the 70 IQ kid by leading him and selectively honing in on what they were trying to implant as a memory cinched it for me. All I could think was "I wonder how common this is?" It wasn't as if the officers just learned to do that on the spot. I'm sure it is a tale as old as time.

They should have taken a tip from the Chi police and "accidentally deleted" the tape.

Scary as anything that if you look at the wrong person funny you could lose your freedom, and the entire system will conspire to keep you locked up.

 

[haulin oats]

The footage of them collecting "testimony" from the 70 IQ kid by leading him and selectively honing in on what they were trying to implant as a memory cinched it for me. All I could think was "I wonder how common this is?" It wasn't as if the officers just learned to do that on the spot. I'm sure it is a tale as old as time.

They should have taken a tip from the Chi police and "accidentally deleted" the tape.

I saw on a news show like 20/20 or something where these cops had detained some 16 year old kids for a crime because they were in the area at the time. Off camera the cop said if you just admit to it I'll let you go. The kid admits to it on camera and has now spent something like a decade in prison for trusting the cops. So to answer your question, probobly on a monthly basis.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?

I saw on a news show like 20/20 or something where these cops had detained some 16 year old kids for a crime because they were in the area at the time. Off camera the cop said if you just admit to it I'll let you go. The kid admits to it on camera and has now spent something like a decade in prison for trusting the cops. So to answer your question, probobly on a monthly basis.

I'm almost positive that in the documentary one of the cops of one of the lawyers say it's THEIR JOB to try and get a confession. They'll do anything to get a confession.

 

[Terry Switzer]

Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?

Don't believe any it. I have a co-worker who is from Manitowoc, who went to High School with the Avery brothers.
He killed that poor woman. There is no doubt in anyone who lives in the Brown,(me) Kewaukee and Manitowoc Counties.
So many facts didn't make the movie it is laughable that people believe this garbage.

 

[GrinCDXX]

Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?

Don't believe any it. I have a co-worker who is from Manitowoc, who went to High School with the Avery brothers.
He killed that poor woman. There is no doubt in anyone who lives in the Brown,(me) Kewaukee and Manitowoc Counties.
So many facts didn't make the movie it is laughable that people believe this garbage.

I tend to agree that he most likely is guilty based on what I've read after watching the series. But, it's not like the footage was doctored--there was so much corruption on display here. Also, the bolded part of your post is another reason why this was so ridiculous--the trials shouldn't have been held within 200 miles of the places you listed because of the very sentiment you expressed.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?

Don't believe any it. I have a co-worker who is from Manitowoc, who went to High School with the Avery brothers.
He killed that poor woman. There is no doubt in anyone who lives in the Brown,(me) Kewaukee and Manitowoc Counties.
So many facts didn't make the movie it is laughable that people believe this garbage.

Yeah, you're right. SO much didn't make the movie.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...defense_information_that_was_left_out_of_mam/

Frankly, your comment reeks of the same crap everyone else fell victim to. You have a persona non grata that was destroyed by the community. They were so blinded by their hatred of this family that he was guilty before she was reported missing.

 

[Spartanforlife4]

Don't believe any it. I have a co-worker who is from Manitowoc, who went to High School with the Avery brothers.
He killed that poor woman. There is no doubt in anyone who lives in the Brown,(me) Kewaukee and Manitowoc Counties.
So many facts didn't make the movie it is laughable that people believe this garbage.

This post is basically the entire point of the documentary. Plus corrupt cops.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?

This post is basically the entire point of the documentary. Plus corrupt cops.

I actually laughed out loud the first time I read it. It was a definite head-desk moment

 

[Spartanforlife4]

I'm almost positive that in the documentary one of the cops of one of the lawyers say it's THEIR JOB to try and get a confession. They'll do anything to get a confession.

I think it was one of the lawyers. They said the training many people get in Chicago (sounded like there's a school or something there?) does not tell them to interrogate for the truth, but to interrogate for a confession, which are obviously two very different things.

After reading more about the case, including some of the evidence that was missing from the documentary, these are the possible situations. Note, this is removing anything Brendan said. Kid cannot be taken credibly. He changed his story multiple times, doesn't appear to have a grasp on reality and consequences, and thought his lawyer would be good because he likes cats.

1. Avery's bro-in-law and Brendan's brother did it. They were each other's alibis and the timelines with the bus driver didn't match up. They didn't like all the attention he was getting and were either jealous or annoyed.

2. He did it. Doesn't make sense for him to do it, but maybe he snapped or something. However, the prosecution's story was not how he did it.

3. Halbach's ex or her roommate. Wait forever to file a missing person, magically get access to her phone records and log in information, delete messages from the voicemail. All were surprisingly calm during the entire ordeal, even the searches. I still can't get over the smugness of the brother.

4. Police did it all. This seems the least likely, but ya never know.

In all four the police planted evidence.

Reddit has had some weird theories, like one about a sex club, but I'm pretty sure that all stems from the DA's sexting scandal.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?

3. Halbach's ex or her roommate. Wait forever to file a missing person

I'm going to disagree with this one. So I usually don't know when my roommate is going to be out of town or even when she's staying at her parents' place. I usually don't figure something is up until she returns or say a week or so has passed. So I'm not entirely sure this is something out of the norm.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?

I'm going to disagree with this one. So I usually don't know when my roommate is going to be out of town or even when she's staying at her parents' place. I usually don't figure something is up until she returns or say a week or so has passed. So I'm not entirely sure this is something out of the norm.

Those 2 should be suspects but that isn't the reason.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?

A very good article on the main thing that I took from watching the documentary:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/12/opinion/making-a-murderer-is-about-justice-not-truth.html

I don't know if Avery did it or not but I'm pretty the justice system didn't work the way everyone would expect it to work if they were accused of a crime.
I would expect the cops to act appropriately and be willing to admit when they're wrong.
I would expect the prosecutor to not poison the jury pool at least until a confession was backed up with evidence.
I would expect apparent conflicts of interest (not just actual conflicts of interest) to be properly dealt with, not just give public lip service.
I would expect officers to respect a suspect's rights and interrogate for truth, not for a confession.
These are pretty basic things that failed Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey, without questioning whether or not either is guilty, I think we can all agree that the system failed and we should expect more from the system.

 

[ericredaxe]

Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?

Have watched 5 episodes so far.... Definitely keeping my attention.

This might be s dumb question, but this is "real" footage correct? (Not actors playing the parts?

 

[The Rube]

Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?

Have watched 5 episodes so far.... Definitely keeping my attention.

This might be s dumb question, but this is "real" footage correct? (Not actors playing the parts?

The court/media stuff? That's real. Very real.

Edit: and video stuff. You can find some video stuff on youtube, like Dassey's full confession (cough cough)

 

[J.D.]

Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?

My thoughts are he did it but that there was also corruption by the police. Ken kratz, what a dink that guy came across as.

As a legalese simpleton, some of the judge's decisions seemed curious to me. And I cannot understand how this dassey kid was pinned like he was. Life in prison with no evidence supporting what he said happened...wow.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?

My thoughts are he did it but that there was also corruption by the police. Ken kratz, what a dink that guy came across as.

As a legalese simpleton, some of the judge's decisions seemed curious to me. And I cannot understand how this dassey kid was pinned like he was. Life in prison with no evidence supporting what he said happened...wow.

Using him to substantiate the Avery case.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?

Using him to substantiate the Avery case.

Yep. Just collateral damage.

I'm not really sure though why anybody thinks Avery is actually guilty. I can understand thinking he hasn't 100% proven his innocence, but that is not the legal standard. Once the state cheats -- and boy did they ever -- that's it, they've blown their case. And once you eliminate the state's case, on what grounds is Avery any more likely a suspect than, well, pretty much any other person in the entire documentary?

I have one shred of idealism left: I don't think the cops just out and out murdered her to set Avery up. But still that seems to me about as statistically likely as Avery doing it, which is to say highly unlikely.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?

That is precisely how I feel.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?

Yep. Just collateral damage.

I'm not really sure though why anybody thinks Avery is actually guilty. I can understand thinking he hasn't 100% proven his innocence, but that is not the legal standard. Once the state cheats -- and boy did they ever -- that's it, they've blown their case. And once you eliminate the state's case, on what grounds is Avery any more likely a suspect than, well, pretty much any other person in the entire documentary?

I have one shred of idealism left: I don't think the cops just out and out murdered her to set Avery up. But still that seems to me about as statistically likely as Avery doing it, which is to say highly unlikely.

To clarify, you're using legal standard--which I agree with you on. I'm just saying deep down, I *think* Avery did it. But, what I think obviously doesn't mean anything here.