Maine @ UNH 10/24: Will Whitehead finally pop?

[Gibber]

Re: Maine @ UNH 10/24: Will Whitehead finally pop?

I dont know Gib....judging by the way these two (Mack and PC) are playing right now, that rivalry might be with NU and UHN

But, ur right overall....at least until we get rid of that jughead behind the bench who provides zero leadership to this team.

I might be in the minorty on my side of the border, but I'd MUCH prefer maine to be a contender. Honestly, as decent as the atmosphere was on Saturday, it's just not the same. I'd rather see that game later in the season, even in December...BUT alas...

 

[acs64]

Re: Maine @ UNH 10/24: Will Whitehead finally pop?

I might be in the minorty on my side of the border, but I'd MUCH prefer maine to be a contender. Honestly, as decent as the atmosphere was on Saturday, it's just not the same. I'd rather see that game later in the season, even in December...BUT alas...

Yeah, it wuz an early confrontation.....fortunate for us it was an early game, otherwise Timbo would have had the goalies and defense in complete disarray later in the season and the scores this weekend would have 8-2 or whatever.....(shakin my head)

 

[maineblackbear]

Re: Maine @ UNH 10/24: Will Whitehead finally pop?

curious how long Maine will continue to offer D1 sports at all; the university is faced with losing 30-40 percent of its faculty in order to reduce its budget by 40 million + over the next four years.

It is inconceivable to me that the school would cut a third of its faculty without looking at other expensive operations. If the hockey team is no longer revenue producing (and its revenue numbers have been declining) and other sports are expensive without producing revenue at all, why would the school continue to support d1 sports?

I have the report detailing the needed cuts and it is frightening-- does someone else have the athletic dept costs and revenue?

Whitehead may be the last D1 hockey coach at Maine for the foreseeable (10 year plus) future . . . that would be fitting if only to demonstrate the meaning of the word "irony."

 

[AMC]

Re: Maine @ UNH 10/24: Will Whitehead finally pop?

curious how long Maine will continue to offer D1 sports at all; the university is faced with losing 30-40 percent of its faculty in order to reduce its budget by 40 million + over the next four years.

It is inconceivable to me that the school would cut a third of its faculty without looking at other expensive operations. If the hockey team is no longer revenue producing (and its revenue numbers have been declining) and other sports are expensive without producing revenue at all, why would the school continue to support d1 sports?

I have the report detailing the needed cuts and it is frightening-- does someone else have the athletic dept costs and revenue?

Whitehead may be the last D1 hockey coach at Maine for the foreseeable (10 year plus) future . . . that would be fitting if only to demonstrate the meaning of the word "irony."

This is what I have been saying, if the hockey team is not a national title contender, there is no reason to offer D-I sports at UMaine.

Why else are we doing it? To see the occasional 7-5 football season with a road playoff game? For losing men's and women's basketball? Maine would be DOMINANT in D-II, and could use primarily instate athletes.

 

[JB]

Re: Maine @ UNH 10/24: Will Whitehead finally pop?

This is what I have been saying, if the hockey team is not a national title contender, there is no reason to offer D-I sports at UMaine.

Why else are we doing it? To see the occasional 7-5 football season with a road playoff game? For losing men's and women's basketball? Maine would be DOMINANT in D-II, and could use primarily instate athletes.

The question is can Maine drop down to D-II in everything but Hockey. There is no D-II hockey so would they be allowed to play up like so many other hockey schools. I know the rules for all this have changed in the last 5 year but I am not up on the ins and outs of it.

 

[Gibber]

Re: Maine @ UNH 10/24: Will Whitehead finally pop?

The question is can Maine drop down to D-II in everything but Hockey. There is no D-II hockey so would they be allowed to play up like so many other hockey schools. I know the rules for all this have changed in the last 5 year but I am not up on the ins and outs of it.

Is there a maximum enrollment for DII schools?

 

[AMC]

Re: Maine @ UNH 10/24: Will Whitehead finally pop?

Is there a maximum enrollment for DII schools?

No, some of those University of California system schools have to be bigger than Maine. Hell, NYU is D-3 and has 20,000 undergrads.

And I'm not advocating Maine be D-II and play up in hockey, I'm saying that if Maine isn't a national title contender, it should not even be supporting D-I hockey. Just drop it down, let it dink around with St. Anselm's.

 

[sandiegoblkbr]

Re: Maine @ UNH 10/24: Will Whitehead finally pop?

I'm saying that if Maine isn't a national title contender, it should not even be supporting D-I hockey. Just drop it down, let it dink around with St. Anselm's.

There are about 200 D-1 athletic programs that could say and should do the same thing.

 

[Gibber]

Re: Maine @ UNH 10/24: Will Whitehead finally pop?

No, some of those University of California system schools have to be bigger than Maine. Hell, NYU is D-3 and has 20,000 undergrads.

And I'm not advocating Maine be D-II and play up in hockey, I'm saying that if Maine isn't a national title contender, it should not even be supporting D-I hockey. Just drop it down, let it dink around with St. Anselm's.

Yeah it was just a curiosity, then I found out that some HUGE schools have D2

 

[walrus]

Re: Maine @ UNH 10/24: Will Whitehead finally pop?

Cutting Football would free up the most money but Alums would freak. I say cut football and Mens BBall, both are waste

 

[sandiegoblkbr]

Re: Maine @ UNH 10/24: Will Whitehead finally pop?

Cutting Football would free up the most money but Alums would freak. I say cut football and Mens BBall, both are waste

That would make a lot of sense.

When Maine hockey and football are doing well.........the UMaine athletic dept. does well. Right now, the football team is up and down and draws about 5,000/game average. The hockey team stinks and will likely average around 4,000/game this season.

Football currently brings in about $400K with their guarantee game alone and IS the face of UMaine athletics right now. UNH drew 14,000 people for their homecoming game vs. Villanova a couple of weeks ago........so there is a lot of upside to having a successful football program.

The whole basketball argument is moot. That sport will never be dropped and we all know it. Again, if Maine could start WINNING (like that powerhouse basketball state Vermont does) then they could easily average 3,000/ game........same with the women. And those sports are MUCH less expensive to operate than hockey.

The problem across the board is a lack of leadership (Kennedy, James & Co.) and some pretty mediocre (Cosgrove) to bad (Whitehead and Woodward) coaching.

 

[walrus]

Re: Maine @ UNH 10/24: Will Whitehead finally pop?

That would make a lot of sense. .

If they draw 5000 for 5 games, thats 25,000 times X, I have no idea what a ticket costs for football, lets say 20 bucks. so thats 500,000 bucks. They have 65 scholarships, 50 something must be out of state, oops, in the red already, not to mention 10 coaches, trainers, equipment.Sure they got some dough from Fla St., they're still in the red. The football team will never pay its own way, cut it.

 

[Whalers]

Re: Maine @ UNH 10/24: Will Whitehead finally pop?

Regarding hoops, most programs are self sufficient due to the NC$$ tourney money that gets parcelled out to all the schools. Coaches, travel and a good portion of the scholarships are covered with this dough and then the balance is paid for by ticket receipts, sponsors and game contingencies for getting slaughtered by the big boys on their home court. If the team does well, and can pack out the place (either UNH or Maine), then this is gravy.

 

[JB]

Re: Maine @ UNH 10/24: Will Whitehead finally pop?

If they draw 5000 for 5 games, thats 25,000 times X, I have no idea what a ticket costs for football, lets say 20 bucks. so thats 500,000 bucks. They have 65 scholarships, 50 something must be out of state, oops, in the red already, not to mention 10 coaches, trainers, equipment.Sure they got some dough from Fla St., they're still in the red. The football team will never pay its own way, cut it.

There was some discussion that UNH was going to push along with some other I-AA schools to cut the number of scholarships allowed to make it more affordable. It was a couple years back and there was a quote in the news from the then UNH president. Of course it was mis-read in the article and a bunch of alumni got all wigged out that the football team wouldn't be able to "compete".

 

[sandiegoblkbr]

Re: Maine @ UNH 10/24: Will Whitehead finally pop?

The football team will never pay its own way, cut it.

Things don't work that way in college athletics.

You'd have a total of about 100 teams (from all sports) across the country if only teams that run in the black were allowed to keep playing.

 

[sandiegoblkbr]

Re: Maine @ UNH 10/24: Will Whitehead finally pop?

There was some discussion that UNH was going to push along with some other I-AA schools to cut the number of scholarships allowed to make it more affordable. It was a couple years back and there was a quote in the news from the then UNH president. Of course it was mis-read in the article and a bunch of alumni got all wigged out that the football team wouldn't be able to "compete".

The problem is that in FCS football you have about a dozen programs (Montana, Appalachian State, Delaware, JMU, to name a few) that want to stay status quo with schollies. Their programs draw in the 20,000ish range and are money makers.......and they are successful year in and year out.......they also hold a lot of sway over their conferences and other schools. I'd be all for cutting scholarships in football from the current 63 down to the 40-50 range.........but for a small group of schools to go it alone would be suicide and they would be better off eliminating the programs.

 

[walrus]

Re: Maine @ UNH 10/24: Will Whitehead finally pop?

Things don't work that way in college athletics.

You'd have a total of about 100 teams (from all sports) across the country if only teams that run in the black were allowed to keep playing.

I don't care about other schools

 

[AMC]

Re: Maine @ UNH 10/24: Will Whitehead finally pop?

Things don't work that way in college athletics.

You'd have a total of about 100 teams (from all sports) across the country if only teams that run in the black were allowed to keep playing.

How many of those schools are facing turning out the lights on about 1/3 of the university? I'd rather keep even one of those programs than subsidize losing athletics teams.

If it was a private university like Boston U, that's fine, that's the kind of decision a private institution can responsibly make. BU essentially exists to make money, they need to attract a wide ranging student body, if having athletics brings in out of state students/elicits alumni donations, that's fine.

Also, if a public university like UNH (42%) or UVM (66%) that draws a large number of out of state students wants to have D-I athletics to draw in students, good for them. They are getting a good return on their investment.

But what is the ROI for a public university like UMaine that has about 15% of its students from outside Maine? I would rather have a populace that can read and write than be shelling out money for Maine's sports teams to struggle against random competition.

 

[maineblackbear]

Re: Maine @ UNH 10/24: Will Whitehead finally pop?

AMC is correct in terms of the dilemma facing UMO; athletics at a second tier school like Maine exists to give opportunities for students who would not otherwise be able to attend college while a couple of programs need to make enough money in order to pay for the department as a whole. In our case, hockey was the moneymaker for a long time, while football occasionally chipped in and some sports, like basketball (particularly women's ball earlier for UMO) also helped. Now, for a lot of reasons university costs have expanded, state support has declined, the economy has imploded, equaling declining tax revenues and the financial support for most of these athletic programs is almost nil. Hockey at Maine should be a no-brainer, but its revenues appear to be declining (called Athletic Department today and they directed me to a 2004 !!! report-- um, that ain't even close to being recent--does anyone have more recent figures?)....

Now Ohio State loses money on their athletic programs. Yes, they do. They spend about fifty million and lose about a million per year-- but that is revenue stream of fifty millions per year, some of which goes to academics. Makes no sense for The Ohio State University to reduce athletics, as they are to a certain extent reliant upon it (and can call upon state funding, though that safety net is being withdrawn in Ohio, also).

Now, Whitehead deserves to be fired because he will be costing jobs, as well as prestige. Prestige equals revenue stream. Doubt that? I am also alum from Gonzaga University-- do you have any idea how much money has been generated by a hitherto mediocre program bursting onto the national scene and miracle of miracles staying there for eleven years? (This year is looking dicey, though- but kids are young, fan base is solid and Mark Few is untouchable)-- anyway, prestige equals applicants (and GU's applications are through the roof; I could not get in today as well as merchandise (and of course NCAA basketball has money deals that college hockey has wet dreams about)-- but losses equals losses in revenue and losses in applicants and losses in support.

So, does the University cut its losses, re-market itself as academic-oriented, or cut 1/3rd of the college in the hopes that athletics can turn into a revenue producer again? Athletics versus academics and the students lose again. And all of this is pre-Tabor--Tabor passes and the cuts are even worse--this is not an idle threat-- cutting 1/3 of the faculty is based upon pre-Tabor projections . . .

we live in interesting times.

 

[walrus]

Re: Maine @ UNH 10/24: Will Whitehead finally pop?

And all of this is pre-Tabor--Tabor passes and the cuts are even worse--this is not an idle threat-- cutting 1/3 of the faculty is based upon pre-Tabor projections . . .

we live in interesting times.

Why is TABOR going to cut even more? Is there going to be a vote to cut taxes if TABOR passes?