Maine Offseason 2020: We Stay Home But Swayman Leaves

[Drew S.]

Understood and agree. It will indeed be a test of where UMaine stands with regards to its past. Don't get me wrong, most schools/programs in the same shoes as UMaine would probably struggle to cut ties with such a successful and storied run, but it's been 20 years since Walshy passed. They've understandably followed that with Whitehead, which I don't think anyone had questioned at the time - having been picked by Walsh (I think?) - so maybe the only previous time there was a question on the direction of the hockey program was 12 years later when Red was hired?

Walsh1.0 was one of the great hires in college hockey history. Walsh2.0 (Whitehead) was a pretty darned good hire, as he kept the program nationally relevant for some time after. We can debate whether it was down to Standbrook's ongoing role, or if Timmy had an actual hand in it, until the cows come home. In retrospect, Walsh3.0 (Gendron) was a step too far with the old formula. A Walsh4.0 (Guite) would probably be disastrous, looking at program's trend since 2001.

If Umile ever managed to win the D-1 title at UNH, I have no doubt he'd still be there running the show, probably well into his 80's. As it was, UNH felt it was necessary to extend the "almost but not quite" Umile Era by hiring one of his former players, who had only enjoyed marginal "success" at both Brown and UConn before he was hired for his first head coaching job.

There was nothing "bizarre" about UMaine's decision to run with Whitehead, or even with Gendron, given his ties to the '93 team. At least they were attached to Walsh, who managed to win the big enchilada. That's understandable, up to a point. UMaine isn't the first school to have fallen into this.

What's truly "bizarre" is a school looking to build on the also-ran "legacy" of a good-but-not-great coach, as the folks 3 hours SW of Orono appear to be doing now. So, as you see, it could be worse ...

I doubt there has been a post on the subject more off the mark than this one. This isn’t a test of the past or anything else, it’s solely to pick the person who can do the best job going forward and hopefully get the program back where it belongs.

 

[Chuck Murray]

I doubt there has been a post on the subject more off the mark than this one. This isn't a test of the past or anything else, it's solely to pick the person who can do the best job going forward and hopefully get the program back where it belongs.

The original poster to whom I was responding agreed with my previous post, but pointed out ...

Ideally yes but the Univ has this bizarre hold on the past that worries me in this process. This is a true test to see if they can break that or willing to.

I merely was pointing out that UMaine's prior handling of their Men's Hockey hires was not unusual, and to some degree quite understandable - up to a point. Whether that point included the Gendron hire, we can debate that too. I think pretty much all of you guys (except a few Guite backers) think it's time to put that stuff aside, and pick the most qualified candidate. I agree.

I added the UNH context only because (1) it reinforces the point that UMaine is hardly the only school that is reluctant to relax their grip on their past - BU is starting down that path too - and (2) Mike Souza six years ago has a lot in common with Ben Guite right now. It's a cautionary tale.

So in the end, we're not in disagreement. Hindsight is 20/20, making decisions in real time is way more challenging. Look at the choices that UMaine had for head coaching hires back in 1984. Walsh was hardly the obvious most qualified candidate out of that bunch. One of the guys was already a successful D-1 coach at another school, and would win the D-1 title at RPI less than a year later (Addesa). Another one of those guys turned into a scout/personnel guy who was behind some of the New Jersey Devils' Stanley Cup teams (Conte). A third was a UNH assistant who had recruited for some fairly successful teams later in the Charlie Holt era (O'Connor). Sometimes what appears to be the obvious right answer isn't so right OR obvious ...

 

[NorthMike]

. This isn’t a test of the past or anything else, it’s solely to pick the person who can do the best job going forward and hopefully get the program back where it belongs.

Absolutely!
To do this the Univ needs to move on from the past in their hiring decision and get the best candidate they can. Hopefully so.

 

[Jackcurtis23]

Read on an “insider” blog that Joe Dumais from QU was being considered. Granted this was early last week. Anyone else hear that name?

 

[Ma#1ne Hky]

Read on an “insider” blog that Joe Dumais from QU was being considered. Granted this was early last week. Anyone else hear that name?

I had not heard his name being on the list, but who knows? I did go over to the Q hockey site and read up on his playing and coaching resume...with that said he could very well be a interesting out of the box candidate, a dark-horse/wild-card. But most of the chatter has been in the wading days to the announcment is the 2 Ben's{Barr & Guite} But we may well be surprised who gets selected in the process.....myself I still think there are more then 2 left in the mix...oh well in a few days we will finally know...

 

[DavidNardolillo]

Read on an “insider” blog that Joe Dumais from QU was being considered. Granted this was early last week. Anyone else hear that name?

If Dumais left, then Quinnipiac will have lost both top assistants this offseason; Bill Riga already took the head job at Holy Cross.

 

[Fishman'81]

TBA no later then Wednesday May 12th...with that said I hope but figure they won't say who applied and who they(UMAINE search team)asked...so far to date and there could be more but Montgomery/Moore/Lang/Capuano have asked not to be considered for the Job. Barr is the BIG FISH if Maine can land him/imo...but one guy that will land a Div.1 job either next year or the year after will be former UML assistant and current HC @ Norwich Cam Ellsworth.

I have often wondered why highly successful D-3 coaches never seem to get a look at D-1 openings. Some of those guys turn programs around overnight, and others of them just recruit and win, and recruit and win, and recruit and win.. And for years and years on end. (And, yeah, Norwich is a prime example of that.)

Still have to think that nobody with any aspirations of D-1 greatness would be eager to take on a situation such as it is at a Maine, a UHN, etc right now. Very steep hills to climb, and lots to lose.

 

[acs64]

Lots to lose? Why is that? This is not going to be a coach which follows a legend. Its a coach after the coach after the coach that followed a legend. Its a clean slate where he has nothing to lose. Sure I suppose if you're talking Barr he may have some pressure on him to succeed. But there's a ton of history and a hungry fan base to work with. Its not as if the new guy has to win a NC his first year out, (second year would be acceptable, lol). Chit if the guy can recruit he can be very successful at UMaine, imo. And he might be pleasantly surprised by how great the fans are and what a special place it is to win at Alfond.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Lots to lose? Why is that? This is not going to be a coach which follows a legend. Its a coach after the coach after the coach that followed a legend. Its a clean slate where he has nothing to lose. Sure I suppose if you're talking Barr he may have some pressure on him to succeed. But there's a ton of history and a hungry fan base to work with. Its not as if the new guy has to win a NC his first year out, (second year would be acceptable, lol). Chit if the guy can recruit he can be very successful at UMaine, imo. And he might be pleasantly surprised by how great the fans are and what a special place it is to win at Alfond.

Depends on who has got something to "lose". Fishy will probably recoil in horror when I take his side here, but any would-be coach who walks into this job as his first head coaching job DOES have lots to lose. If the selected coach cannot pull it off at UMaine (or UNH, or wherever), there's a very good chance he's blown his one and only chance at a D-1 head coaching career. Sure, he can go back and do whatever it was he used to do (Barr as a D-1 recruiter, Ellsworth as a D-3 head coach) but that will likely be it. And in the end, they may be just fine with it. But everything IS on the line for the coach, make no mistake.

Prime example, just drawing on personal experience, someone I know from the world of travel soccer was itching to get into a Varsity HS head coaching position. Must have finished as runner-up for 3 decent local HS programs - not prime jobs, but not bottom of the barrel either. Got discouraged and impatient, ended up taking the first HC job that would hire Coach in the role, which was a perennial loser program. Actually did a pretty decent job for a few years, made them way less bad than before, almost respectable, but not quite over the hump. New AD comes in, doesn't have the context, hires new coach, program craters and now no longer exists. So Coach did a pretty decent job, but only two people (Coach and former AD) know it. Coach is back in travel soccer again, ten years older, no closer to a decent HS head coaching opportunity. Ship has sailed. In the meantime, two of the three jobs where Coach finished as runner-up re-opened when folks who beat Coach out moved on or were fired.

Not equating D-1 Hockey to HS soccer, but the principles are the same. A lot of coaches only get that one (1) chance to run the show at the level they desire - and many more never even get that chance. God knows how many D-1 coaches have sent in a resume or CV to fill an AHL or NHL job, and never hear back, that we've never heard about. Would you be surprised if you found out Walshy sent a resume/CV for a pro HC job at some point (especially during his suspension)? The guy was all about self-belief and confidence, I wouldn't be surprised if he did. On the other hand ... if Walshy failed at UMaine, would he have gotten another HC opportunity at the D-1 level? Well, ... did Jack Semler ever get that second chance elsewhere? Will Mike Souza ever got a second HC opportunity if he can't turn the UNH program around shortly??

The upside at UMaine is absolutely huge, no doubt about it. Ditto at UNH. acs64 is right, future HC successors don't need to worry about following Walshy or Umile or Whitehead or Holt. They will welcome those comparisons in the future, IF they can first succeed in the job ... and that's the tricky part. Success is hardly a given, we've seen it before, either way. Most HC hires are confident they can pull it off. My coaching colleague thought so, too. Luce is a prime example at this level (UConn) yet the guy in Amherst just lapped him in half the time on their respective jobs. I mean, who saw that coming?

The new UMaine hire has everything to gain yes, but lots to lose as well. Most folks with the self-confidence to get this far in the profession, though, will take that risk more often than not ...

 

[acs64]

FCS Chuck if the guy isn’t willing to hang his ball sack out there for a good job then we don’t want him. He could apply instead for the HC of the sisters of charity broom ball team and be safe with nothing to lose. If you want to be a HC go for it

 

[amkirby10]

The suspense is killing me. You would think that "early next week" means tomorrow at the latest, right?

 

[Jackcurtis23]

Suspense is killing me too.

From NE Hockey Journal:

According to industry sources, Maine is likely to name a successor to Red Gendron in the coming days. Interim Maine head coach Ben Guite, UMass associate head coach Ben Barr and Quinnipiac associate head coach Joe Dumais are the favorites to land the top gig in Orono.

 

[Drew S.]

Suspense is killing me too.

From NE Hockey Journal:

According to industry sources, Maine is likely to name a successor to Red Gendron in the coming days. Interim Maine head coach Ben Guite, UMass associate head coach Ben Barr and Quinnipiac associate head coach Joe Dumais are the favorites to land the top gig in Orono.

You've got to think it's a two horse race...

 

[Chuck Murray]

FCS Chuck if the guy isn’t willing to hang his ball sack out there for a good job then we don’t want him. He could apply instead for the HC of the sisters of charity broom ball team and be safe with nothing to lose. If you want to be a HC go for it

Totally agree, acs64. Still doesn't mean there's "nothing to lose" if it doesn't work out at UMaine.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Suspense is killing me too.

From NE Hockey Journal:

According to industry sources, Maine is likely to name a successor to Red Gendron in the coming days. Interim Maine head coach Ben Guite, UMass associate head coach Ben Barr and Quinnipiac associate head coach Joe Dumais are the favorites to land the top gig in Orono.

Joe Dumais makes way more sense than Scott Pellerin. Should find out in the next 48 hours ...

 

[Fishman'81]

Lots to lose? Why is that? This is not going to be a coach which follows a legend. Its a coach after the coach after the coach that followed a legend. Its a clean slate where he has nothing to lose. Sure I suppose if you're talking Barr he may have some pressure on him to succeed. But there's a ton of history and a hungry fan base to work with. Its not as if the new guy has to win a NC his first year out, (second year would be acceptable, lol). Chit if the guy can recruit he can be very successful at UMaine, imo. And he might be pleasantly surprised by how great the fans are and what a special place it is to win at Alfond.

The roster, ACS... Nobody is going to win there anytime soon, sadly. And why would an up and coming coach throw away his first shot at success in Maine right now? There's a good reason that nobody seems to want this job.

 

[amkirby10]

Fishman might be the most negative fan about his own team I've ever seen.

Yes, the team is obviously not great right now. Just how bad they actually are is up for some debate. But to act like this program is unsalvageable is just ridiculous.

 

[Fishman'81]

Fishman might be the most negative fan about his own team I've ever seen.

Yes, the team is obviously not great right now. Just how bad they actually are is up for some debate. But to act like this program is unsalvageable is just ridiculous.

I'm not negative; I'm realistic. The proof is in the pudding, no debate is in order.

I defended Whitehead's talent down to the wire, even as I eventually joined the call for his head. But Red inherited NHL-quality players, and there's nothing like that for whoever takes the job now, clearly.

We have to hope that a guy with excellent recruiting pipelines and a lot of patience gets the nod, and that'll still take 3-4-5 years, minimum. This past regime has buried the program for a while, no two ways about it. If not for the blind hog/acorn deal with the amazing Swayman, Maine would not have had even a remote sniff of the NCAA's in years and years now.

 

[Drew S.]

I'm not negative; I'm realistic. The proof is in the pudding, no debate is in order.

I defended Whitehead's talent down to the wire, even as I eventually joined the call for his head. But Red inherited NHL-quality players, and there's nothing like that for whoever takes the job now, clearly.

We have to hope that a guy with excellent recruiting pipelines and a lot of patience gets the nod, and that'll still take 3-4-5 years, minimum. This past regime has buried the program for a while, no two ways about it. If not for the blind hog/acorn deal with the amazing Swayman, Maine would not have had even a remote sniff of the NCAA's in years and years now.

Go look at Heisenberg's 2013 list. The program was an absolute mess when Timmy left.

 

[umhockey91]

The inept UM ADs let this program slip. Both Whitehead and Gendron languished in mediocrity under some of the worst ADs in Maine history (Patrick Nero, Blake James, Steve Abbott).