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Maine Offseason 2020: We Stay Home But Swayman Leaves

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acs64 said:
Two UNH'ers on the Maine thread lamenting our troubles is giving me heartburn :D
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Always warms my heart to see guys like you and Wally posting on here, acs64.

You guys are welcome to chime in on the UNH thread anytime. I promise to vouch for you.

Especially if it means we get a new coach - if you guys don't want Monty, we'll take him. :-)
 
Chuck Murray said:
Always warms my heart to see guys like you and Wally posting on here, acs64.

You guys are welcome to chime in on the UNH thread anytime. I promise to vouch for you.

Especially if it means we get a new coach - if you guys don't want Monty, we'll take him. :-)
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Chuck this congeniality you are exhibiting here is scary. What happened to the a-hole we all knew and despised? :-)

Pretty sure UMaine can’t and won’t select Monty for that position. In today’s world too many sensitive people would get their panties in a bunch for hiring a DUI.

How ironic could it possibly be to have UMaine pass on him only to have you guys hire him and kick the chit outta the Bears down the road.
 
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acs64 said:
Two UNH’ers on the Maine thread lamenting our troubles is giving me heartburn :D
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Yes.

There's a term for that: "schadenfreude"... Let's all to the UHN thread, pretend that we give a F* about who they hire next, and embrace our inner gas-bags... I'm sure Chuckie would lap-up our insight as if it was beans and cornbread.

Please pass me the Rolaids, if you have any left.
 
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walrus said:
If they are doing a natl search, who is on the committee?
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It is a good question and you would think that it would be shared just to show how important this next hire will be{imo on the hire}and a estimated time line to figure what the 2021-22 season will look like as in a Staff and to keep the present roster and incoming recruits a idea on what to expect. I am wary again that anything positive will come down, and that is a downer for all. I do understand the Interim tag on Guite as there has to be someone in charge of the Fort while the process goes on...but after awhile you wonder.
 
Fishman'81 said:
Let's all to the UHN thread, pretend that we give a F* about who they hire next, and embrace our inner gas-bags... I'm sure Chuckie would lap-up our insight as if it was beans and cornbread.
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It's not like I'm either the Welcome Wagon or Border Patrol for access to the UNH thread(s), any more than you are for this thread or other UMaine-related topics. So come on over and do/say whatever you want to. It's a free country (or at least it used to be) ...

As far as "pretending to give a F*" ... to be clear, I've never said my interest in who UMaine hires even approaches the level of interest you folks have in your own program. I'm not going to pizz on your shoes and tell you it's raining. But there are some similarities between the programs, and a fair share of common history in the battles between the programs, where for a relatively short window of time, Hockey East was actually focused on two non-MA/Boston area teams - UMaine and UNH. If UNH shared that history with UVM - another northern New England HEA school - I'd probably be interested in what they'd be doing in a similar situation. UVM and UMaine are both 3 hours away. But there is no real UVM vs. UNH history of note, see? Any more than there is a comparable UVM vs. UMaine history of note. So no one cares about UVM. Simple, no?

To put it as simply as possible, since you seem to be a person of fairly simple thinking (not that there's anything wrong with that BTW) ... I want UNH to be good/very good again. I want them to challenge for league and national honors, just like you guys want UMaine to do. But the most special moments in my UNH fandom always seemed to revolve around UMaine and/or BC, with a dash of BU sprinkled in there ... but UMaine at the front of that line. I've met more than a few UMaine fans who used to post here (some who still do), and I know you will struggle with this ... but I like UMaine fans (and some BC fans, too), as we have things in common that we don't have in common with the big-city Boston folks/programs.

And if UNH ever returns to some level of prominence, I would like for UMaine to be their closest rival. To be clear, I want UNH to be great, and I'd be very happy if UMaine settles for just being very good - kind of a reversal of what things were like when Walshy and Umile were doing Tri-City Dodge car commercials together over two decades ago. Now if somehow UNH does become great, UVM rises from nothingness and becomes our "new" UMaine, and UMaine is stuck as the "new" UVM, I'm sure I'll adjust. But until "Green Out the Gutt" replaces "White Out the Whitt", I'll always be interested in how UMaine is doing.

I'm not sure this is radical, outside-the-box thinking? It's hardly schadenfreude, I save that stuff for Luce and UConn, for reasons that would blow a lot of BC fans' minds. With me and UMaine, right now, it's much more "misery loves company" at worst, and at best wanting a return of a great non-Boston rivalry between the two best northern New England schools in HEA.
 
Chuck Murray said:
... and then there were three ... :-)
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I just worry, because at UNH a national search was a 55.5 miles radius to Wakefield. I worry that at Maine that definition wouldn't reach that many candidates like Barr, unless he happens to vacation in Acadia. Just looking out for our friends up north;)
 
NCAA watcher said:
I just worry, because at UNH a national search was a 55.5 miles radius to Wakefield. I worry that at Maine that definition wouldn't reach that many candidates like Barr, unless he happens to vacation in Acadia. Just looking out for our friends up north;)
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I think you're exaggerating a bit there, 'Watcher. Most local folks know Melrose (Captain Turtleneck) and Wakefield (MS7) share a common border, plus a hospital. UNH's "national search" radius was probably less than five (5) miles from Umile's front porch to the Mount Hood GC clubhouse.
 
umhockey91 said:
It's a secret. God knows that Larry Mahoney won't tell us....that would involve investigative journalism.
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(...Or even waking up on time once in a while.)

Tell ya what, though, this transfer portal is a very serious consideration.

Two Maine guys in the portal who were DNP on every box are not the issue at all, but any chance of cherry-picking a few *actual* talents just HAVE to be contingent on installing a relevant coaching staff, yesterday. There is no time to waste here; we're looking at 4 long years of repercussions involving both the Covid rules and the portal.

Monty might be able to do that, but the leftovers from the Red disaster certainly will not.

Pretty sure that Maine will blow this and stink-up HEA for years to come, but if the AD has Brain Cell One, he must get ahead of the curve, or at least try to keep up.
 
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Sean Pickett said:
I haven't researched the other leagues and there might be a coach who was able to turn it around after 8 seasons, but it seems to me that would be unlikely.
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Sean Pickett said:
I was wrong and there is a head coach who took twelve seasons before getting above 0.500, Minnesota-Duluth's Coach Sandelin.
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I've now finished compiling the cumulative records for 389 head coaching stints that lasted more then a single season at all current or former DI schools since WWII (with a few starting before the war). Of those 389 instances, 167 coached for at least 8 seasons, and of those 57 had losing records and 8 didn't return for a ninth season. With Coaches Gendron (RIP) and Cavanaugh among the group of 49 I looked at the remaining 47 and to my surprise I found that 7, about 15%, went on to have a winning cumulative record and 1 is currently at 0.500. I next took a closer look at the 8 coaches and most had some success in both the regular and post season during their first seven seasons. The most successful has arguably been Scott Sandelin, but Ted Donato and Frank Serratore are also in that mix, with Doug Ross also a winner before he stepped down. Here are what each did their first eight and successive seasons:

[TABLE="width: 829"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, colspan: 2"]Scott Sandelin, UMD, 21 seasons, cumulative 0.545%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]First 8[/TD]
[TD]2 winning seasons (0.583, 0.667), 2 league semifinals, 1 FF[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Next 13[/TD]
[TD]11 winning seasons, 7 league semifinals, 4 championship games, 3 titles, 9 NCAAs, 5 FFS, 4 championship games, 3 titles[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, colspan: 2"]Ted Donato, Harvard, 16 seasons, cumulative 0.530%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]First 8[/TD]
[TD]4 winning seasons (0.662, 0.629, 0.559, 0.544), 4 championship games, 1 title, 2 NCAAs[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Next 8[/TD]
[TD]6 winning seasons, 5 league semifinals, 3 championship games, 2 titles, 4 NCAAs, 1 FF[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, colspan: 2"]Frank Serratore, AFA, 24 seasons, cumulative 0.524%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]First 8[/TD]
[TD]1 winning (0.513), one 0.500 season, 4 league semifinals[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Next 16[/TD]
[TD]12 winning seasons, 2 regular season titles, 9 league semifinals, 7 championship games, 7 titles, 7 NCAAs[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, colspan: 2"]Doug Ross, UAH, 22 seasons, cumulative 0.590%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]First 8[/TD]
[TD]5 winning seasons (0.518, 0.667, 0.596, 0.611, 0.554), 1 DII Frozen Four championship game[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Next 14[/TD]
[TD]11 winning seasons, 2 regular season titles, 1 tournament title, 3 DII Frozen Four championship games, 2 titles[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Looking at Coaches Donato's and Ross' success those first eight seasons it's a bit surprising both had losing records. Then there are the 3 coaches who got their cumulative winning percentage above 0.500, but never did much before or after their eighth season:

[TABLE="width: 829"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, colspan: 2"]Craig Dahl, SCSU, 18 seasons, cumulative 0.521%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]First 8[/TD]
[TD]2 winning seasons, 1 NCAA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Next 10[/TD]
[TD]7 winning seasons, 5 league semifinals, 1 tournament title, 4 NCAAs[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, colspan: 2"]John Markell, OSU, 16 seasons, cumulative 0.511%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]First 8[/TD]
[TD]3 winning seasons (0.667, 0.561, 0.550), 3 league semifinals, 1 championship game, 2 NCAAs, 1 FF[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Next 8[/TD]
[TD]4 winning seasons, 3 league semifinals, 2 championship games, 1 title, 4 NCAAs[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, colspan: 2"]James Fullerton, Brown, 15 seasons, cumulative 0.511%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]First 8[/TD]
[TD]3 winning season (0.526, 0.522, 0.688)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Next 7[/TD]
[TD]6 winning seasons, 2 league semifinals, 1 championship game, 1 FF[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


And finally there is the coach currently at 0.500:

[TABLE="width: 829"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, colspan: 2"]Derek Schooley, RMU, 17 seasons, cumulative 0.500%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]First 8[/TD]
[TD]1 winning (0.586) and 2 0.500 seasons, 5 league semifinals, 2 championship games[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Next 9[/TD]
[TD]6 winning seasons, 3 regular season titles, 6 league semifinals, 4 championship games, 1 title, 1 NCAA[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


So, there was a chance, however unlikely, that Coach Gendron could have turned it around and gone on to have a cumulative winning record. However, even if he had I don't think he would have been in the first group. Nor do I think Coach Cavanaugh will end up in the first group.

Sean
 
How do we not know ANYTHING at this point. Is the search committee formed? If so, who is on it? Are they soliciting applicants? Have they set any interviews? What's the timeline?
 
AMC said:
How do we not know ANYTHING at this point. Is the search committee formed? If so, who is on it? Are they soliciting applicants? Have they set any interviews? What's the timeline?
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When does the semester end? In an ideal world the new coach would have a chance to spend some time with the team before they go home.
 
I did a little more in depth research on the length coaching stints and of the 165 coaches, who coached 8 seasons, 150 (90.9%) coached at least another season. Of those 43 (28.6%) ended with a cumulative record above 0.600, 54 (36%) ended with a cumulative record between 0.500 and 0.600, and 53 (35.3%) ended with a losing cumulative record. So, for a fair number of athletic directors in the past, staying with a losing coach after 8 seasons was acceptable, depending on what they wanted from the program. However, currently only 6 (counting Coach Cavanaugh) of 26 active coaches (23%) who have coached 8+ seasons have a losing record, somewhat better than the historical percentage.

As for when losing coaches do leave, 8 had their tenures ended after 8 seasons (1 by the termination of the program), 10 after 9 seasons (again 1 by the termination of the program), 4 after 10 seasons (1 due to death), 3 after 11 seasons (1 by leaving from another HC position) and 9 after 12 seasons. For the next 7 seasons 2 coaches with losing records ended their tenure, with 1 still coaching after 19 seasons, and 10 coaching 20+ seasons, with 2 still active.

So, as it unfortunately looks like Maine has decided to no longer focus on having a winning program I think Coach Gendron would have been retained for at least another season, if not several more. I also think this makes it likely that Coach Guite will be named head coach and get a four year contract.

Sean
 
Sean Pickett said:
So, as it unfortunately looks like Maine has decided to no longer focus on having a winning program I think Coach Gendron would have been retained for at least another season, if not several more. I also think this makes it likely that Coach Guite will be named head coach and get a four year contract.

Sean
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Only Ken Ralph will ever know for sure whether Red was gonna be offered a chance to return next season, regardless of what he or others in his circle may or may not say in the future. We do know he was playing it coy publicly, and I suspect pressure of the "not knowing what the future looks like" may well have contributed to Red's condition on the fateful day (or not). What happened and how it happened almost guarantees there will never be a definitive public answer.

I'm sure Coach Guite would rather have assumed control of the UMaine program any way other than this way. How ironic it would be that a program that was diverted from its previous station atop the D-1 pyramid by an untimely death could see its reversal and return to past glories triggered by another untimely death? I think the only other HEA program where the head coach has passed even once was UNH (Kullen), and his situation was more akin to Walsh, where they were bringing programs up or back out of its doldrums.

Rebuilds are much more demanding and all-encompassing energy-wise. In retrospect, Red seemed an odd fit for demands of a UMaine return to glory. Red was in his mid-50's at his time of hire - about 10 years older than Walsh when he passed, and 15 years older than Kullen - when Red's remit was probably to keep things where Whitehead had in his best years, and if he could match Walsh's level, it's a happy bonus? But as Red got older, and the job became more demanding as UMaine faltered (like UNH), the odd fit at the outset became odder and probably WAY more demanding. Guys who stick around into their 60's and beyond are usually on cruise control to a degree - either in a good way (York) or not so good (Umile, Parker, Ceglarski and others) way. Red didn't have the luxury of a soft landing, and in the end, it may have caught up with him.

Apologies if I've offended anyone with this discussion, so close to Red's passing. In the end, I truly believe Red was placed in a tough spot - one he asked for at age 55, but one he might not have been up for at age 63, an older man being asked to succeed in a younger man's job (the rebuild part). You can only delegate so much of the job to younger assistants, and you can't delegate away the pressure. In the end, you're still the captain of the ship, and the brunt of that pressure falls on you. Too bad there wasn't an Asst. AD slot for him to slide into, or a chance to gracefully ride off into the sunset?
 
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