USCHO Fan Forum
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.
Maine Hockey 2013-2014 Part 1: Red Dawn
- Thread starter gscott13
- Start date
- Status
Re: Maine Hockey 2013-2014 Part 1: Red Dawn
Willy was definitely not the worst goalie to play at Maine post-Jimmy....I like the pick too, the kid worked his tail off and he was ready to help the team in '07 when Bishop got hurt and again in '10 when Darling went off the deep end. One of the real nice things about that run through Lowell in the quarters was the way he played, someone I felt good about rooting for. Plus, the relating to the players, understanding etc stuff that others mentioned.
And Hey, that BC team dropped 7 on Miami and 5 on Wisconsin in the Frozen Four so....yeah parts of that OT Hockey East final were ugly but that was a wagon.
Willy was definitely not the worst goalie to play at Maine post-Jimmy....I like the pick too, the kid worked his tail off and he was ready to help the team in '07 when Bishop got hurt and again in '10 when Darling went off the deep end. One of the real nice things about that run through Lowell in the quarters was the way he played, someone I felt good about rooting for. Plus, the relating to the players, understanding etc stuff that others mentioned.
And Hey, that BC team dropped 7 on Miami and 5 on Wisconsin in the Frozen Four so....yeah parts of that OT Hockey East final were ugly but that was a wagon.
Re: Maine Hockey 2013-2014 Part 1: Red Dawn
Well I don't think Dave being on the staff as a volunteer is going to make or break the progress of this team. Give him a chance. You never know. If he's the biggest issue then remember where what we were all beeatching about last year! And I disagree that he was the worst goalie ever at Maine. That's a pretty big statement.
Well I don't think Dave being on the staff as a volunteer is going to make or break the progress of this team. Give him a chance. You never know. If he's the biggest issue then remember where what we were all beeatching about last year! And I disagree that he was the worst goalie ever at Maine. That's a pretty big statement.
Re: Maine Hockey 2013-2014 Part 1: Red Dawn
Simply the fact that he's presumably being brought in and not skyping with the kids would've been well received no matter who the head coach was
Simply the fact that he's presumably being brought in and not skyping with the kids would've been well received no matter who the head coach was
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Maine Hockey 2013-2014 Part 1: Red Dawn
I've seen every goalie that has played any significant minutes at Maine, and I can't think of a more incompetent one, assuming a decent sample-size of games... I saw a few games when Wilson couldn't have stopped a medicine ball.
Not picking a fight, but I'm very curious to hear who you and ck1969 think were worse than Dave.
I've seen every goalie that has played any significant minutes at Maine, and I can't think of a more incompetent one, assuming a decent sample-size of games... I saw a few games when Wilson couldn't have stopped a medicine ball.
Not picking a fight, but I'm very curious to hear who you and ck1969 think were worse than Dave.
Ma#1ne Hky
New member
Re: Maine Hockey 2013-2014 Part 1: Red Dawn
Shawn Sirman
Shawn Sirman
walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Re: Maine Hockey 2013-2014 Part 1: Red Dawn
WHo cares, is he playing for Maine next season? The rumor is he is going to be a coach. He was the best goalie on those teams, he didn't give up, he didn't ask to be taken out(Sirman) he wasn't drinking his lunch(Darling).
Last edited:
Re: Maine Hockey 2013-2014 Part 1: Red Dawn
For the biggest failure/waste of talent it's Darling hands down. Like Wally said Willy never gave up, never quit. There's more to being the worst ever besides stats.
For the biggest failure/waste of talent it's Darling hands down. Like Wally said Willy never gave up, never quit. There's more to being the worst ever besides stats.
MaineHockeyMom
Banned
Re: Maine Hockey 2013-2014 Part 1: Red Dawn
I am pretty sure that if the choices were Alexander over Skype and Wilson in person, people would go with Wilson
and I seem to remember him stealing a few games when he played for some really bad Maine teams under a really bad "system"
was he the worst Maine goalie ever? I think the worst goalie performance I had ever seen was a game Doyle played against Merrimack, when he and ExExter appeared to be TRYING to give the game away. Both gave up very weak goals all night long and the teams tied 5-5. But I would also say that Doyle was one of Maine's best goalies ever.
I am pretty sure that if the choices were Alexander over Skype and Wilson in person, people would go with Wilson
and I seem to remember him stealing a few games when he played for some really bad Maine teams under a really bad "system"
was he the worst Maine goalie ever? I think the worst goalie performance I had ever seen was a game Doyle played against Merrimack, when he and ExExter appeared to be TRYING to give the game away. Both gave up very weak goals all night long and the teams tied 5-5. But I would also say that Doyle was one of Maine's best goalies ever.
Ma#1ne Hky
New member
Re: Maine Hockey 2013-2014 Part 1: Red Dawn
Darlings problem was HIMSELF..period..he let a Team down..sad to say the least,to add to a wasted talent,when his head was on straight..but that's the past..
blackbearbandie
Registered User
Re: Maine Hockey 2013-2014 Part 1: Red Dawn
Ultimately, it is up to the individual to adapt and overcome, and Scott did let the team down, but to be truly a team you win and lose as a team and I think the team failed him too and his dependencies were allowed to fester and flourish in an environment amongst teammates and coaches that perhaps should/could have intervened earlier and not allowed things to progress and ultimately end the way they did. I saw Scott Darling walking away from the Alfond crying on the night he was dismissed from the team. It was an unfortunate situation, but to say it was only his issue "period" is going a step too far, imho, and really highlights some of the behind the scenes dysfunction that has been overshadowed by the success the majority of the team has experienced in the classroom.
Ultimately, it is up to the individual to adapt and overcome, and Scott did let the team down, but to be truly a team you win and lose as a team and I think the team failed him too and his dependencies were allowed to fester and flourish in an environment amongst teammates and coaches that perhaps should/could have intervened earlier and not allowed things to progress and ultimately end the way they did. I saw Scott Darling walking away from the Alfond crying on the night he was dismissed from the team. It was an unfortunate situation, but to say it was only his issue "period" is going a step too far, imho, and really highlights some of the behind the scenes dysfunction that has been overshadowed by the success the majority of the team has experienced in the classroom.
irishfan85
New member
Re: Maine Hockey 2013-2014 Part 1: Red Dawn
Whitehead was a nice man who tried to get team to behave well off ice and do well in classroom but he didn't demand the respect of his players. He recruited strong students for most part but from talking with players they didn't fear him.
Whitehead was a nice man who tried to get team to behave well off ice and do well in classroom but he didn't demand the respect of his players. He recruited strong students for most part but from talking with players they didn't fear him.
Re: Maine Hockey 2013-2014 Part 1: Red Dawn
Well, for me it was when I watched Gionta score 5 goals in 15 minutes(I think it was 15 minutes from what I can remember). One of them was a very weak shot from up high on the circle that went 5 hole with nobody else around and anyone screening the goalie. It was so bad I went from disappointed, to irate, to laughing all in the span of minutes. I am not sure I will ever see something like that again. That was Yeats I believe. Yeats also gave up the goose in Minny, another painful memory. Oh well.
But that night in Conte Forum when Yeats did that, I am sure nobody can top it.
Having said all that, like you said, Yeats was a solid goalie. He just had very undesirable moments where he looked like he had no training. To his credit though, he turned in one of the most impressive performances when I watched he and Conklin go head to head at the Whittemore center in a game that ended in a 0-0 tie. Some 0-0 ties are just that, good goalie performances from both sides. This 0-0 tie was something altogether different. The goalies were robbing all night. The save Conklin had on Mantenuto's wrap around was absurdly good. That was the best 0-0 games I've seen.
Well, for me it was when I watched Gionta score 5 goals in 15 minutes(I think it was 15 minutes from what I can remember). One of them was a very weak shot from up high on the circle that went 5 hole with nobody else around and anyone screening the goalie. It was so bad I went from disappointed, to irate, to laughing all in the span of minutes. I am not sure I will ever see something like that again. That was Yeats I believe. Yeats also gave up the goose in Minny, another painful memory. Oh well.
But that night in Conte Forum when Yeats did that, I am sure nobody can top it.
Having said all that, like you said, Yeats was a solid goalie. He just had very undesirable moments where he looked like he had no training. To his credit though, he turned in one of the most impressive performances when I watched he and Conklin go head to head at the Whittemore center in a game that ended in a 0-0 tie. Some 0-0 ties are just that, good goalie performances from both sides. This 0-0 tie was something altogether different. The goalies were robbing all night. The save Conklin had on Mantenuto's wrap around was absurdly good. That was the best 0-0 games I've seen.
Re: Maine Hockey 2013-2014 Part 1: Red Dawn
We get it, your love of tim whitehead is unending. Is there a kimball union board you can go flounder?
But seriously this is a step up from what tim whitehead had for the goalie coaching situation but also tim whiteheads goalies had a pretty terrible track record so he deservedly would have been criticized since we knew it wasn't going to be him developing the goalie. Also we criticized the goalie coaching situation under tim because it was not getting the results. Lets see skype or hands on, whats would you prefer runsub5?
Red probably doesn't need as much help in that department has tim did an this guy could be a great teacher, we don't know yet.
We get it, your love of tim whitehead is unending. Is there a kimball union board you can go flounder?
But seriously this is a step up from what tim whitehead had for the goalie coaching situation but also tim whiteheads goalies had a pretty terrible track record so he deservedly would have been criticized since we knew it wasn't going to be him developing the goalie. Also we criticized the goalie coaching situation under tim because it was not getting the results. Lets see skype or hands on, whats would you prefer runsub5?
Red probably doesn't need as much help in that department has tim did an this guy could be a great teacher, we don't know yet.
CollegeHockeyRinkReport
New member
Re: Maine Hockey 2013-2014 Part 1: Red Dawn
Check out the save percentages on hockeydb of the four goaltending coaches of the Frozen Four teams. None were anymore spectacular than Dave Wilson.
PC's goaltending coach saw action in all of seven games as a 3rd string goaltender for Merrimack in the late 90s.
Check out the save percentages on hockeydb of the four goaltending coaches of the Frozen Four teams. None were anymore spectacular than Dave Wilson.
PC's goaltending coach saw action in all of seven games as a 3rd string goaltender for Merrimack in the late 90s.
Re: Maine Hockey 2013-2014 Part 1: Red Dawn
Not entirely. In my mind, the best goalie of all time was under Whitehead.
Now, I agree with your overall point. That is - there is no reason to doubt Wilson as a goalie coach. And also Runsub does seem to have more slack for Whitehead than the rest of us.
But I can't help but argue that the goaltending under Whitehead wasn't the problem as much as other areas.
I am sure I will catch flack, and also not sure why I even care to create controversy here. But Jimmy Howard in my mind was the best goalie for Maine. I understand people will beach me out over Dunham and Snow... but Jimmy didn't have the two top Hobey candidates on his team and then the third wheel that happened to lead the country in goals. At least I think Ingraham did that year. And then the rest of the lines and defense was spectacular too. Let's face it, Jimmy Howard didn't have nearly as much in front of him comparatively speaking. I mean when you lose deep in the playoffs games that are 1-0 or 2-1(I forget the score in Mariucci when we got the horrible draw and he played his heart out, and also the score of the loss to Denver cause I think that was a Jimmy game also) you can't ask for more out of your goalie.
The goalies under Whitehead weren't so much the problem as the lack of defensive coaching. The guys on D weren't playing the body. They weren't pinching in on O. And weren't playing with their heads up to make that best first pass. Instead we saw passiveness backing in the zone well too deep. We saw that loose puck drift up towards the top of the circles and/or along the boards that could have been collected and sent in deep or down low off the goalie's blocker get backed off and come up out of the zone. And the potential outlet passes out of the Maine zone that could lead to time of possession get chipped off the boards to lead to the neutral zone flip-of-the-coin and let's see how it goes type play.
It takes one great goalie combined with a great set of forwards over the first few lines to overcome that deficiency. Sometimes Maine had that early in Whitehead's tenure and that made Maine compete for the title. Other times when it was decent Maine would be in the mix. But the odds weren't in Maine's favor without it later in Whitehead's tenure. I really think when Campbell Blair left, things got harder to come by. BTW, if I am not mistaken Jimmy set the all time save percentage record when Blair was coaching d(and Standbrook goalie coached).
These are just my opinions and it doesn't mean anything. But give me the days when Maine had the best 3 pairs and a solid goalie...
Not entirely. In my mind, the best goalie of all time was under Whitehead.
Now, I agree with your overall point. That is - there is no reason to doubt Wilson as a goalie coach. And also Runsub does seem to have more slack for Whitehead than the rest of us.
But I can't help but argue that the goaltending under Whitehead wasn't the problem as much as other areas.
I am sure I will catch flack, and also not sure why I even care to create controversy here. But Jimmy Howard in my mind was the best goalie for Maine. I understand people will beach me out over Dunham and Snow... but Jimmy didn't have the two top Hobey candidates on his team and then the third wheel that happened to lead the country in goals. At least I think Ingraham did that year. And then the rest of the lines and defense was spectacular too. Let's face it, Jimmy Howard didn't have nearly as much in front of him comparatively speaking. I mean when you lose deep in the playoffs games that are 1-0 or 2-1(I forget the score in Mariucci when we got the horrible draw and he played his heart out, and also the score of the loss to Denver cause I think that was a Jimmy game also) you can't ask for more out of your goalie.
The goalies under Whitehead weren't so much the problem as the lack of defensive coaching. The guys on D weren't playing the body. They weren't pinching in on O. And weren't playing with their heads up to make that best first pass. Instead we saw passiveness backing in the zone well too deep. We saw that loose puck drift up towards the top of the circles and/or along the boards that could have been collected and sent in deep or down low off the goalie's blocker get backed off and come up out of the zone. And the potential outlet passes out of the Maine zone that could lead to time of possession get chipped off the boards to lead to the neutral zone flip-of-the-coin and let's see how it goes type play.
It takes one great goalie combined with a great set of forwards over the first few lines to overcome that deficiency. Sometimes Maine had that early in Whitehead's tenure and that made Maine compete for the title. Other times when it was decent Maine would be in the mix. But the odds weren't in Maine's favor without it later in Whitehead's tenure. I really think when Campbell Blair left, things got harder to come by. BTW, if I am not mistaken Jimmy set the all time save percentage record when Blair was coaching d(and Standbrook goalie coached).
These are just my opinions and it doesn't mean anything. But give me the days when Maine had the best 3 pairs and a solid goalie...
Re: Maine Hockey 2013-2014 Part 1: Red Dawn
Jimmy was the best ever.
But after Jimmy, Maine went 3-4 full seasons without a goaltender recording a season save percentage of .900. There were many many times when the guys who followed Jimmy, even a future NHL-er in Ben Bishop, looked absolutely lost out there.
Clearly that coincided with the change in defensive philosophy.....but the goalies just weren't prepared and didn't play well, and frankly the staff's inability to get them to a passable level consistently cost the program trophies during Nyquist's tenure in my opinion.
FWIW: Team save percentage:
2006-07 (Bishop/Wilson): .917
2007-08 (Bishop/Wilson): .914
2008-09 (Darling/Wilson): .897
2009-10 (Darling/Wilson/Sirman): .885
2010-11 (Sully/Sirmam/Marty): .885
2011-12 (Sully/Marty): .904
2012-13 (Marty/Sully/Morris): .911
IIRC, Larry Mahoney once wrote that the team save percentage from 2008-2011 was the worst in the nation.
Jimmy was the best ever.
But after Jimmy, Maine went 3-4 full seasons without a goaltender recording a season save percentage of .900. There were many many times when the guys who followed Jimmy, even a future NHL-er in Ben Bishop, looked absolutely lost out there.
Clearly that coincided with the change in defensive philosophy.....but the goalies just weren't prepared and didn't play well, and frankly the staff's inability to get them to a passable level consistently cost the program trophies during Nyquist's tenure in my opinion.
FWIW: Team save percentage:
2006-07 (Bishop/Wilson): .917
2007-08 (Bishop/Wilson): .914
2008-09 (Darling/Wilson): .897
2009-10 (Darling/Wilson/Sirman): .885
2010-11 (Sully/Sirmam/Marty): .885
2011-12 (Sully/Marty): .904
2012-13 (Marty/Sully/Morris): .911
IIRC, Larry Mahoney once wrote that the team save percentage from 2008-2011 was the worst in the nation.
Last edited:
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Maine Hockey 2013-2014 Part 1: Red Dawn
OK, IIRC he had some good games in his Senior season, but he was a bad goalie overall in his college career. No question about that.
If that somehow translates into him being a good goalie coach, more power to him.
Has he been seasoning somewhere since he left Maine?
OK, IIRC he had some good games in his Senior season, but he was a bad goalie overall in his college career. No question about that.
If that somehow translates into him being a good goalie coach, more power to him.
Has he been seasoning somewhere since he left Maine?
walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
- Status