Maine 2012 - Take 2. If This Ain't the Bottom...

[Ma#1ne Hky]

Re: Maine 2012 - Take 2. If This Ain't the Bottom...

Opinion. You have no way of knowing what Maine's fiscal situation is. The latest data that is available is from 2010. At that point the profit was $700,000. I documented what seats are available this weekend for the Mercyhurst game, but they still make major money from ticket sales and have plenty of other revenue streams. It's been speculated for years that Maine's hockey revenue has dropped off the cliff, but they have remained constant even as attendance has fallen. Stop charging outrageous prices for tickets and people might come back. As I said, most people aren't going to shell out $50/game even to see our 42-1-2 team.


This is true. Not sure why it is relevant, but to my knowledge no program in the university system has had to reduce the number or value of scholarships. I would expect the value of a scholarship has gone up as the tuition and other expenses have gone up.


More opinion. First of all, the record is 4-11-2. As to why Gillies went to Providence, let's look at this from both Maine's perspective and his perspective. From Maine's perspective, would you agree that devoting 4 scholarships to goaltending might be a slight misallocation of resources? If yes, then you would have to rescind the scholarship money from one of the keepers. Sullivan was the starter, backstopped the team to consecutive sweeps of BC and BU (for the first time ever, by anyone) and helped the team earn an NCAA bid. Matt Morris was an incoming freshman and highly regarded. Should Maine have told him to pound sand? More than likely you'd have lost Ouellette, who was on the outs with the coaching staff (and apparently some players) at the start of the season.
Now look at it from Gillies perspective. At Maine he would be behind Sullivan (and/or Ouellette) and fighting to be the #2 (or #3) with Morris. One of them more than likely would have been redshirted. There is a chance he could come here and have to wait two years or more to become a regular starter, if he ever did. Or he could walk into Providence, be the undisputed #1 from day one and have a full four years (or less if he goes pro) as the starter. Which way would you go? Tough decision there.

For the Record Gillies was going to play for Northeastern,but with the return of Chris Rawlings he asked and was granted his release and hooked on with Providence...he was never coming or thinking of Maine.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Maine 2012 - Take 2. If This Ain't the Bottom...

For the Record Gillies was going to play for Northeastern,but with the return of Chris Rawlings he asked and was granted his release and hooked on with Providence...he was never coming or thinking of Maine.

And if he looked at the things I pointed out, he shouldn't have. Besides, there are other things that determine where a kid will play hockey. A friend of mine was heavily recruited by Maine and another Hockey East school (among others) and he chose the other school because he had grown up in rural Maine and wanted to experience city life. In the end, his decision wasn't based on anything related to hockey.

 

[Ma#1ne Hky]

Re: Maine 2012 - Take 2. If This Ain't the Bottom...

And if he looked at the things I pointed out, he shouldn't have. Besides, there are other things that determine where a kid will play hockey. A friend of mine was heavily recruited by Maine and another Hockey East school (among others) and he chose the other school because he had grown up in rural Maine and wanted to experience city life. In the end, his decision wasn't based on anything related to hockey.

Thats for sure...things are alot different these days compared to 10-15 yrs ago.

 

[all bear]

Re: Maine 2012 - Take 2. If This Ain't the Bottom...

Friday is pretty obvious, its called Marty. Saturday is called Matty. I'll take whatever you are smoking if you believe Maine has a physical presence on the ice.

Must I lay this out piece by piece?

Alls Im saying is that Joey is probably the most physical player on this non physical team and if hes out of the lineup, how can they possibly win when according to KIA physcial play is absolutely critical. I never said nor inferred that this team was at all physical. Smoke em if you gotem.

btw, Jackie cheats, Whistlin Dick cheats and for all we know Jerry does as well.

 

[DoubleA]

Re: Maine 2012 - Take 2. If This Ain't the Bottom...

Incorrect. 2 minute minor for Priceless and I'll repeat...Fact, Maine Hockey is break even at best for the '12-'13 season. This from a conversation 2 weeks ago with a source in Orono whose name appears in this forum frequently. Priceless, you gotta trust me on this one; the info is good. Season tickets have plumetted. Student attendance at Alfond is apparently still very good, but that's part of a UMaine Sports Pass or whatever they call it and doesn't generate a lot of profit. Ticket prices - I totally agree with you. What do you do with a $50 ticket you don't sell?? Rip it up. I'm going to the Mercyhurst game in Portland tomorrow night and even find it a little offensive to shell out $19 per seat at the CCCC which is a sh*te hole.

Relavant only because the Pine Tree state has a projected $756M revenue deficit in the next 2-year budget and the Orono campus is looking a very tired right now. No cuts in Hockey scholarships speaks to the great importance of the program to the University and to the entire State.

My bad... 4-11-2. Just too painful to admit I guess. Yes, of course 4 goalie scholarships would be a misallocation but hear me out... and Gillies is just an example. The points with Gillies are that first he would have been recruited 3+ years ago and you likely would not have the current Wilson-Ouellette-Morris alignment therefore no rescinding any scholarships already committed. Second he was in our own back yard. Spent Freshman year at No. Yarmouth Acad. then transferred to Salisbury before going to Indianapolis to play USHL and finish high school. It's early days for him in Hockey East but I'd rate him = to or > than Wilson, Ouelette or Morris. Agree?
The real point is that with a once great program in disrepair as Maine is, the best recruits will not have Maine on the top of their wish list and that is fact, not opinion.

Opinion. You have no way of knowing what Maine's fiscal situation is. The latest data that is available is from 2010. At that point the profit was $700,000. I documented what seats are available this weekend for the Mercyhurst game, but they still make major money from ticket sales and have plenty of other revenue streams. It's been speculated for years that Maine's hockey revenue has dropped off the cliff, but they have remained constant even as attendance has fallen. Stop charging outrageous prices for tickets and people might come back. As I said, most people aren't going to shell out $50/game even to see our 42-1-2 team.

This is true. Not sure why it is relevant, but to my knowledge no program in the university system has had to reduce the number or value of scholarships. I would expect the value of a scholarship has gone up as the tuition and other expenses have gone up.

More opinion. First of all, the record is 4-11-2. As to why Gillies went to Providence, let's look at this from both Maine's perspective and his perspective. From Maine's perspective, would you agree that devoting 4 scholarships to goaltending might be a slight misallocation of resources? If yes, then you would have to rescind the scholarship money from one of the keepers. Sullivan was the starter, backstopped the team to consecutive sweeps of BC and BU (for the first time ever, by anyone) and helped the team earn an NCAA bid. Matt Morris was an incoming freshman and highly regarded. Should Maine have told him to pound sand? More than likely you'd have lost Ouellette, who was on the outs with the coaching staff (and apparently some players) at the start of the season.
Now look at it from Gillies perspective. At Maine he would be behind Sullivan (and/or Ouellette) and fighting to be the #2 (or #3) with Morris. One of them more than likely would have been redshirted. There is a chance he could come here and have to wait two years or more to become a regular starter, if he ever did. Or he could walk into Providence, be the undisputed #1 from day one and have a full four years (or less if he goes pro) as the starter. Which way would you go? Tough decision there.

 

[walrus]

Re: Maine 2012 - Take 2. If This Ain't the Bottom...

Alls Im saying is that Joey is probably the most physical player on this non physical team and if hes out of the lineup, how can they possibly win when according to KIA physcial play is absolutely critical.

Sometimes players pick up the slack when one of their leaders isn't playing.??

 

[all bear]

Re: Maine 2012 - Take 2. If This Ain't the Bottom...

Sometimes players pick up the slack when one of their leaders isn't playing.??

Thats probably as good an answer as any but Im interested in learning what the one that knows it all has to say.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Maine 2012 - Take 2. If This Ain't the Bottom...

Incorrect. 2 minute minor for Priceless and I'll repeat...Fact, Maine Hockey is break even at best for the '12-'13 season. This from a conversation 2 weeks ago with a source in Orono whose name appears in this forum frequently. Priceless, you gotta trust me on this one; the info is good.

Oh, well, if you say I HAVE to trust you, then please forgive me, O Wise One.

Yes, of course 4 goalie scholarships would be a misallocation but hear me out... and Gillies is just an example. The points with Gillies are that first he would have been recruited 3+ years ago and you likely would not have the current Wilson-Ouellette-Morris alignment therefore no rescinding any scholarships already committed.

When do you suppose Sullivan, Ouellette and Morris were recruited?

Second he was in our own back yard. Spent Freshman year at No. Yarmouth Acad.

Genuflect when you say that.

then transferred to Salisbury before going to Indianapolis to play USHL and finish high school.

So..he wasn't in "our back yard" anymore, was he?

It's early days for him in Hockey East but I'd rate him = to or > than Wilson, Ouelette or Morris. Agree?

Get back to me at the end of the season. Sullivan may not have the same level of technical ability or international experience, but he's been through the heart of a Hockey East stretch run and did pretty well for himself.

The real point is that with a once great program in disrepair as Maine is, the best recruits will not have Maine on the top of their wish list and that is fact, not opinion.

Like Devin Shore...

 

[Drew S.]

I am not going to reveal any specific instances or cases, but Maine has not been able to compete with other Division 1 (Hockey East) schools in the recruiting process. There have been financial benefits offered by other schools that Maine has not been able to compete with. Does anyone know whether the NCAA governs the total compensation package offered to a recruit?

I have no inside info but I would think other hockey east schools can offer more as far as internships and non hockey jobs after graduation. There is a lot more going on around Boston than there is Bangor.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Maine 2012 - Take 2. If This Ain't the Bottom...

There is a lot more going on around Boston than there is Bangor.

You're kidding!

 

[walrus]

Re: Maine 2012 - Take 2. If This Ain't the Bottom...

I have no inside info but I would think other hockey east schools can offer more as far as internships and non hockey jobs after graduation. There is a lot more going on around Boston than there is Bangor.

Did this change in the last few weeks or something? Its always been that way, these kids want to play hockey, they want to get to the NHL. You can better yourself as a hockey player in Orono just like you can at the Heights. It all depends on the coach and the will of the player

 

[DoubleA]

Re: Maine 2012 - Take 2. If This Ain't the Bottom...

1. You are way better at cutting/pasting/responding/word processing in this forum than I am. I have a tough time putting M&M's in alphabetical order.
2. You know exactly what my point is with Gillies.
3. He grew up in So. Portland... yes, back yard. Don't pick fly sh*t out of pepper.
4. I love that we have Shore and am amazed he ultimately chose Maine; admit it, so are you. a. Will he stay? b. Now that he's experienced Timmay, would he do it over again?
Tomorrow and Saturday night will be telling in this soap opera. Go Bears!!

Oh, well, if you say I HAVE to trust you, then please forgive me, O Wise One.


When do you suppose Sullivan, Ouellette and Morris were recruited?


Genuflect when you say that.


So..he wasn't in "our back yard" anymore, was he?


Get back to me at the end of the season. Sullivan may not have the same level of technical ability or international experience, but he's been through the heart of a Hockey East stretch run and did pretty well for himself.


Like Devin Shore...

 

[Runsub5]

Re: Maine 2012 - Take 2. If This Ain't the Bottom...

The NCAA certainly does govern the total compensation package that's given to student-athletes. A scholarship is supposed to cover room&board, books and cost of tuition. Athletes are entitled to Pell Grants and other aid that other students can claim as well. Anything more counts as an illegal benefit. If you have proof of other schools offering illegal benefits to players, by all means, sic the NCAA on them. It would be justice if *cough* certain coaches *cough* in Hockey East were busted for providing players with illegal benefits. Then again when BU admitted that they may have violated NCAA rules (not to mention the Clery Act) with the criminal activities of certain hockey players, the NCAA did a big fat nothing. So who knows if the NCAA still has the same investigative zeal it had, say, 20 years ago.

Based on the information you and BearNecessity provided, there was no illegal benefit being offered. I have no reason to believe that the information given to me was not accurate. Maine was able to offer a scholarship, but was not able to offer the complete financial package. In order for Maine to compete at the highest level, it's important that Maine not be financially restricted. Right now, in some situations, that appears to be the case. I also might add, it had nothing to do with Orono or the coaching staff. It was all about the money.

 

[fiqure8]

Re: Maine 2012 - Take 2. If This Ain't the Bottom...

Incorrect. 2 minute minor for Priceless and I'll repeat...Fact, Maine Hockey is break even at best for the '12-'13 season. This from a conversation 2 weeks ago with a source in Orono whose name appears in this forum frequently. Priceless, you gotta trust me on this one; the info is good. Season tickets have plumetted. Student attendance at Alfond is apparently still very good, but that's part of a UMaine Sports Pass or whatever they call it and doesn't generate a lot of profit. Ticket prices - I totally agree with you. What do you do with a $50 ticket you don't sell?? Rip it up. I'm going to the Mercyhurst game in Portland tomorrow night and even find it a little offensive to shell out $19 per seat at the CCCC which is a sh*te hole.

Relavant only because the Pine Tree state has a projected $756M revenue deficit in the next 2-year budget and the Orono campus is looking a very tired right now. No cuts in Hockey scholarships speaks to the great importance of the program to the University and to the entire State.

My bad... 4-11-2. Just too painful to admit I guess. Yes, of course 4 goalie scholarships would be a misallocation but hear me out... and Gillies is just an example. The points with Gillies are that first he would have been recruited 3+ years ago and you likely would not have the current Wilson-Ouellette-Morris alignment therefore no rescinding any scholarships already committed. Second he was in our own back yard. Spent Freshman year at No. Yarmouth Acad. then transferred to Salisbury before going to Indianapolis to play USHL and finish high school. It's early days for him in Hockey East but I'd rate him = to or > than Wilson, Ouelette or Morris. Agree?
The real point is that with a once great program in disrepair as Maine is, the best recruits will not have Maine on the top of their wish list and that is fact, not opinion.

Do they serve beer at CCCC....? I will be at the game for 19$ A real DEAL ! See U there !!

 

[blackbearbandie]

Maine was able to offer a scholarship, but was not able to offer the complete financial package. In order for Maine to compete at the highest level, it's important that Maine not be financially restricted. Right now, in some situations, that appears to be the case. I also might add, it had nothing to do with Orono or the coaching staff. It was all about the money.

After the self-imposed sanctions UMaine imposed upon itself after NCAA violations, Maine Hockey did cutback available scholarships for a period of time in the mid to late 90's, and yet even after being hampered with recruiting by not being able to offer full scholarships the University of Maine was still able to win a National Championship in the 98-99 season. The Hockey East All Decade team from the 90's had 6 out of 12 players from Maine and yet none from our 99' championship team!

 

[UncleRay]

Re: Maine 2012 - Take 2. If This Ain't the Bottom...

btw, Jackie cheats, Whistlin Dick cheats and for all we know Jerry does as well.

I have a hard time believing that any big program isn't cheating, even if it is inadvertent.

 

[Ma#1ne Hky]

Re: Maine 2012 - Take 2. If This Ain't the Bottom...

Winning 20 plus games a year,top 4 in Hockey East,trips to the Championships @ Boston,NCAA appearences,top 10-15 in Polls during the season and being on Nat. TV will make for recruiting @ Maine better...bottom line is winning and knowing that the Coach of the team will bring out the best....thats not happening at Maine no more.

 

[all bear]

Re: Maine 2012 - Take 2. If This Ain't the Bottom...

Winning 20 plus games a year,top 4 in Hockey East,trips to the Championships @ Boston,NCAA appearences,top 10-15 in Polls during the season and being on Nat. TV will make for recruiting @ Maine better...bottom line is winning and knowing that the Coach of the team will bring out the best....thats not happening at Maine no more.

Well, we did make a trip to the "Gahden"under Timmay once in a while (just to keep the seat warm for when we hire a capable coach), though not nearly as often as in the Walshy years.

 

[AMC]

Re: Maine 2012 - Take 2. If This Ain't the Bottom...

Do they serve beer at CCCC....? I will be at the game for 19$ A real DEAL ! See U there !!

They do for Pirates games, dunno if they turn off the taps for UMaine like they do for high school games.

 

[ck1969]

Re: Maine 2012 - Take 2. If This Ain't the Bottom...

They do for Pirates games, dunno if they turn off the taps for UMaine like they do for high school games.

I don't think they sell beer for the UMaine games. I will say the U has done zero marketing for this game. In years past there was always a little bit of promotion leading up to the Portland game. I haven't even heard the local sports guys on TV or radio mention it. Too bad. I wouldn't expect a big crowd.