LSSU Lakers 2015 off-season thread

[Laker Dude]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2015 off-season thread

I got a call from Ryan Renz thanking me for being a season ticket holder this past season. He says there will be a ticket renewal coming up in the next few weeks and there will be an early bird special as well. This is pretty cool and a great idea from Damon to try and drum up support.

I also had a message on my cell phone from Renz. I was surprised for sure. Definitely a good idea.

 

[InterestedLakerFan]

I also had a message on my cell phone from Renz. I was surprised for sure. Definitely a good idea.

The more I dig the more I speculate on whittens ability to avoid obvious criticism. Between what I see, hear from the locals and hear from those very intimate with the program I simply shake my head in disgust. The program is not stable. Would you like some examples of double standards? I've got them. Now I will compliment the PR move in having current players acknowledging season ticket holders. My loyalty is to the team and its long history and many treasured traditions. Whitten has not earned my confidence.

 

[eye4talent]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2015 off-season thread

The more I dig the more I speculate on whittens ability to avoid obvious criticism. Between what I see, hear from the locals and hear from those very intimate with the program I simply shake my head in disgust. The program is not stable. Would you like some examples of double standards? I've got them. Now I will compliment the PR move in having current players acknowledging season ticket holders. My loyalty is to the team and its long history and many treasured traditions. Whitten has not earned my confidence.

Let me guess. The players who were cut had their feelings hurt? Didn't get a participation ribbon? Par for the course with today's youth.

 

[AnchorsAway]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2015 off-season thread

Very well said, especially on the Administration.

That was my point a while ago, when you looked at the record of Whitten, where he has coached, and how those teams have performed. That isn't totally on him, his was one of the assistant, but doesn't help his cause, or have his resume and track record jump out at you and say, wow this is the perfect guy for this position. This year didn't help his cause with 28 loses as head coach, and while it's his first year, it is still part of a resume of a guy that hasn't won anywhere.

Maybe that will change with these stellar recruits and Whitton's magic system, that most of you on here are on board with, and believe in, but the results and resume of this guy say otherwise at this point.

You are correct that last season is factually ending up as part of Whitten's resume, those 28 losses forever belong to his record. Beyond that, statistical fact, I don't charge anything to Whitten at this point. His assisitant coaching experience and the success his teams did or didn't have is basically a moot point in my opinion, its true the teams he helped out on didn't have any success but it's also true that he helped recruit a Tech team that was very good last season.

The bottom line when it comes to last season is that nobody was going to have success with that team, absolutely nobody. The coach doesn't score any goals and unfortunately for Coach W, his players last year could barely beat him in that department. The Lakers won 8 games last year, 4 of those wins were shutouts, 2 of their other wins saw the Lakers allow 1 goal and in their remaining 2 wins they allowed 2 goals. To summarize the Lakers did not win a single game in which their opponent scored 3 or more goals. Obviously you don't want to make a habit of allowing several goals to the opponent however even the best goalies in the game need to be allowed to give up a handful of goals from time to time and still believe their team has the ability to win the game. Deifel had no such luxury. To further this point in 29 of the Lakers 38 games they scored 2 or fewer goals...that is a ridiculously thin margin of error to operate on....Once you accept the obvious that last year was destined to be a failure even if Mike Babcock had been behind the bench, the question to then ask is what is the most you could ask from a coach going forward? The answer is recruiting players that project to be better in the coming years than the gong show that was on the ice last season, and Whitten has done that in spades... We are filling up the "pipeline" from a quantity standpoint in a way that has not been seen in The Soo for quite awhile, and we are doing it with a majority of the players being from leagues that the Lakers had a very tough time scratching out even a few players from during the Roque Era. Does it guarantee success? Absolutely not, and if 3-4 years from now the Lakers have shown no promise of improving the program then I will be first in line to place heat on Whitten, but from where I sit he has done a good of starting to make the best of a bad situation and from where this program sat a year ago, that is all I can ask for to this point.

 

[Bill]

You are correct that last season is factually ending up as part of Whitten's resume, those 28 losses forever belong to his record. Beyond that, statistical fact, I don't charge anything to Whitten at this point. His assisitant coaching experience and the success his teams did or didn't have is basically a moot point in my opinion, its true the teams he helped out on didn't have any success but it's also true that he helped recruit a Tech team that was very good last season.

The bottom line when it comes to last season is that nobody was going to have success with that team, absolutely nobody. The coach doesn't score any goals and unfortunately for Coach W, his players last year could barely beat him in that department. The Lakers won 8 games last year, 4 of those wins were shutouts, 2 of their other wins saw the Lakers allow 1 goal and in their remaining 2 wins they allowed 2 goals. To summarize the Lakers did not win a single game in which their opponent scored 3 or more goals. Obviously you don't want to make a habit of allowing several goals to the opponent however even the best goalies in the game need to be allowed to give up a handful of goals from time to time and still believe their team has the ability to win the game. Deifel had no such luxury. To further this point in 29 of the Lakers 38 games they scored 2 or fewer goals...that is a ridiculously thin margin of error to operate on....Once you accept the obvious that last year was destined to be a failure even if Mike Babcock had been behind the bench, the question to then ask is what is the most you could ask from a coach going forward? The answer is recruiting players that project to be better in the coming years than the gong show that was on the ice last season, and Whitten has done that in spades... We are filling up the "pipeline" from a quantity standpoint in a way that has not been seen in The Soo for quite awhile, and we are doing it with a majority of the players being from leagues that the Lakers had a very tough time scratching out even a few players from during the Roque Era. Does it guarantee success? Absolutely not, and if 3-4 years from now the Lakers have shown no promise of improving the program then I will be first in line to place heat on Whitten, but from where I sit he has done a good of starting to make the best of a bad situation and from where this program sat a year ago, that is all I can ask for to this point.

Right on the money. Good post.

 

[DM2SM]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2015 off-season thread

You are correct that last season is factually ending up as part of Whitten's resume, those 28 losses forever belong to his record. Beyond that, statistical fact, I don't charge anything to Whitten at this point. His assisitant coaching experience and the success his teams did or didn't have is basically a moot point in my opinion, its true the teams he helped out on didn't have any success but it's also true that he helped recruit a Tech team that was very good last season.

The bottom line when it comes to last season is that nobody was going to have success with that team, absolutely nobody. The coach doesn't score any goals and unfortunately for Coach W, his players last year could barely beat him in that department. The Lakers won 8 games last year, 4 of those wins were shutouts, 2 of their other wins saw the Lakers allow 1 goal and in their remaining 2 wins they allowed 2 goals. To summarize the Lakers did not win a single game in which their opponent scored 3 or more goals. Obviously you don't want to make a habit of allowing several goals to the opponent however even the best goalies in the game need to be allowed to give up a handful of goals from time to time and still believe their team has the ability to win the game. Deifel had no such luxury. To further this point in 29 of the Lakers 38 games they scored 2 or fewer goals...that is a ridiculously thin margin of error to operate on....Once you accept the obvious that last year was destined to be a failure even if Mike Babcock had been behind the bench, the question to then ask is what is the most you could ask from a coach going forward? The answer is recruiting players that project to be better in the coming years than the gong show that was on the ice last season, and Whitten has done that in spades... We are filling up the "pipeline" from a quantity standpoint in a way that has not been seen in The Soo for quite awhile, and we are doing it with a majority of the players being from leagues that the Lakers had a very tough time scratching out even a few players from during the Roque Era. Does it guarantee success? Absolutely not, and if 3-4 years from now the Lakers have shown no promise of improving the program then I will be first in line to place heat on Whitten, but from where I sit he has done a good of starting to make the best of a bad situation and from where this program sat a year ago, that is all I can ask for to this point.

Your post was excellent. I wish we could have some fun on here without those joining in with an agenda.
I would expect we would see things a little differently and you brought up the perfect examples of where I disagree.
I will leave it at that to keep the vultures away.

 

[Bill]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2015 off-season thread

Your post was excellent. I wish we could have some fun on here without those joining in with an agenda.
I would expect we would see things a little differently and you brought up the perfect examples of where I disagree.
I will leave it at that to keep the vultures away.

Of the finalists for the Lakers coaching position, you wanted Ron Fogarty to get the job. He had a worse record at Princeton this past season than Whitten did with the Lakers, and Fogarty had a very good head coaching resume albeit at a Div 3 school. That's not taking a shot at Fogarty. When you hire a new coach, you need to give him a few years to see what he can do. Both Whitten and Fogarty deserve that.

 

[blackswampboy]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2015 off-season thread

When you hire a new coach, you need to give him a few years to see what he can do. Both Whitten and Fogarty deserve that.

yep, and it really isn't very complicated. you give a new coach a few years, and expect to see incremental improvements along the way.

Bergeron only had 10 wins his first year, 14 his second, and 15 his third. nobody called for his head back then, because we could see the changes starting to happen.
by year 5, 23 wins and a contract extension.

Pecknold at Q'pac went through a rough first few years too. 6 wins his first year, followed by 11 and 13. we know how that's worked out.

 

[DM2SM]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2015 off-season thread

Of the finalists for the Lakers coaching position, you wanted Ron Fogarty to get the job. He had a worse record at Princeton this past season than Whitten did with the Lakers, and Fogarty had a very good head coaching resume albeit at a Div 3 school. That's not taking a shot at Fogarty. When you hire a new coach, you need to give him a few years to see what he can do. Both Whitten and Fogarty deserve that.

Your facts are accurate. Of the five finalists I did have Fogarty and his near 90% career winning percentage as a Head Coach at the top. I might as well add that, as you know, I had the two that we selected, which never had a winning season as a coach between them, as my bottom two choices. That sums up what I know about hockey. We might as well get it all out there.

That was an opinion Bill. That’s what I come on here for. I don’t come on here to present our schedule or tell people where our coaches are recruiting today. I’m not a PR person for the administration like you appear to be.
In fact, my opinion is that the administration, and I include you in that group, are more the problem than the coaches they selected.
I give an opinion and present why I feel that way. Kind of like Dan Patrick or Mike and Mike.
People tune in once a day for the news like you provide Bill. A quick glance at the scores. We will tune in for hours and listen to opinion, especially when we are retired.

Another opinion of mine is that I will not come on here and say that the current coaches should not be given a chance. My opinion is that they should remain on as long as our current athletic administration does. If that’s twenty years then that’s fine with me. I hope that is clear. Any problem I have with our hockey team is aimed at those above the coaches. That seems to be the trend in the community Bill and I share that opinion.

You can turn that whole perception around PR Bill but you will need facts to back up your opinions and those facts are called wins. Double the wins and you are back to where the team was when this staff took over.

Your turn.

 

[Bill]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2015 off-season thread

Your facts are accurate. Of the five finalists I did have Fogarty and his near 90% career winning percentage as a Head Coach at the top. I might as well add that, as you know, I had the two that we selected, which never had a winning season as a coach between them, as my bottom two choices. That sums up what I know about hockey. We might as well get it all out there.

That was an opinion Bill. That’s what I come on here for. I don’t come on here to present our schedule or tell people where our coaches are recruiting today. I’m not a PR person for the administration like you appear to be.
In fact, my opinion is that the administration, and I include you in that group, are more the problem than the coaches they selected.
I give an opinion and present why I feel that way. Kind of like Dan Patrick or Mike and Mike.
People tune in once a day for the news like you provide Bill. A quick glance at the scores. We will tune in for hours and listen to opinion, especially when we are retired.

Another opinion of mine is that I will not come on here and say that the current coaches should not be given a chance. My opinion is that they should remain on as long as our current athletic administration does. If that’s twenty years then that’s fine with me. I hope that is clear. Any problem I have with our hockey team is aimed at those above the coaches. That seems to be the trend in the community Bill and I share that opinion.

You can turn that whole perception around PR Bill but you will need facts to back up your opinions and those facts are called wins. Double the wins and you are back to where the team was when this staff took over.

Your turn.

I don't see any point in getting into a back and forth argument. I just think you need to give Whitten more time before criticizing his W-L record with the Lakers. If there isn't any significant improvement by sometime during his third season, then maybe it's time to do so. By the way, I don't know anyone in the administration.

 

[DM2SM]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2015 off-season thread

I don't see any point in getting into a back and forth argument. I just think you need to give Whitten more time before criticizing his W-L record with the Lakers. If there isn't any significant improvement by sometime during his third season, then maybe it's time to do so. By the way, I don't know anyone in the administration.

First of all I call BS regarding your Administration comment.

Secondly, my criticism wasn’t for the coaches won-lost record just as yours wasn’t to bash Fogarty. My opinion was directed at the discussion you were involved with that was trying to pin down when the current staff should be on record. One poster thought after two years, another after three and another said to give him the nine that Jim Roque had. I hate when the players take all the heat.

I stated that my belief was that you are on the clock from day one. Your record is your record. After next year there will be another entry into that record. I like the things this staff is doing to better Laker Hockey from a PR perspective and maybe that’s what you should discuss and leave the on-ice results alone until there is something that we can get behind.

If the team had success this year it would have been because of the coaching change and since we didn’t ….well as one poster put it, Mike Babcock couldn’t have won with this team. REALLY????? I can almost guarantee that Alex Globke would have had 25 plus points with Mike Babcock and we would have been over .500.

The real reason I posted was I hate hearing that our players are terrible and when we get better players in here to execute “the new system” we will see results. WE CUT AN ENTIRE CLASS. We should see results immediately. I bring up the past record of the coaching staff because none have ever had a winning record. What program is this new system coming from that you people feel so compelled to berate players that did nothing more than come here and do their best?

That’s all. I'm done.

 

[RapidsCity]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2015 off-season thread

Just one opinion, on a forum where you are allowed to express one, even if it doesn't fit the current agenda that many on here have a lot to lose, especially if things don't exactly go the way Whitton's promised system and results. His track record and resume proves that to be the case, at least at this point.

You can post more than one opinion or even support your own opinions if you post under one (or several) screen names!

 

[Bill]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2015 off-season thread

First of all I call BS regarding your Administration comment.

OK, but it's nevertheless true.

Secondly, my criticism wasn’t for the coaches won-lost record just as yours wasn’t to bash Fogarty. My opinion was directed at the discussion you were involved with that was trying to pin down when the current staff should be on record. One poster thought after two years, another after three and another said to give him the nine that Jim Roque had. I hate when the players take all the heat.

The post you made late Monday morning did include a criticism of this past season's record, although you subsequently revised the post to remove some of it's content, including that criticism. I think everyone agrees that the head coach goes on record (official W-L) from season one. Where people are saying 2-3 years, that's not when they think his W-L record starts, that's saying you need to give a coach at least that much time to see what he can do as a head coach.

If the team had success this year it would have been because of the coaching change and since we didn’t ….well as one poster put it, Mike Babcock couldn’t have won with this team. REALLY????? I can almost guarantee that Alex Globke would have had 25 plus points with Mike Babcock and we would have been over .500.

I think many of us would disagree with you about that.

The real reason I posted was I hate hearing that our players are terrible and when we get better players in here to execute “the new system” we will see results. WE CUT AN ENTIRE CLASS. We should see results immediately. I bring up the past record of the coaching staff because none have ever had a winning record. What program is this new system coming from that you people feel so compelled to berate players that did nothing more than come here and do their best?

I don't think anyone is saying the players are terrible (AnchorsAway's comment about a gong show was a little strong), but you have to admit the talent level this past season wasn't as high as it had been in recent seasons. I think that's all AnchorsAway was saying. The Lakers had no returning goalies with Div 1 experience, very little returning experience on D (mainly Drapluk and Loesch and a little with Spratte), and not much scoring back. Globke was the main scorer back but he played with Radke and Campbell his freshman season and he didn't have that luxury this past season. If you don't think that made a huge impact on his drop in scoring I don't know what to tell you. Hopefully the coaches will be able to pair him with some new line mates this coming season that will enable him to get his scoring back up.

 

[AnchorsAway]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2015 off-season thread

Bill, the term "gong show" that I used probably was too strong and unintentionally disrespectful, so I am willing to retract that; as you pointed out, I was just conveying that I don't think the skills of last seasons team was up to where it had been in years past.

DM2SM, for what it is worth, I wouldn't know Bill in the real world if he came up and stepped on my shoe, what I do know is I have been a regular poster on this forum for the past 8 years and have read hundreds, if not thousands of Bill's posts and I can honestly say that in that time there hasn't been a single instance where I had a shred of suspicion that he had an "in" with anyone in LSSU's administration. I've gathered that he lives downstate and only catches a few games in person per year, but he vigorously follows Lake State's program, more-so maybe than any other forum member on this site, especially as it pertains to recruiting. He has called out those on the hill several times (rightly so), and has been consistent with his support of the entire Lake State program, not just with specific names/factions within the program. For all of those reasons I feel confident in saying that there's no way he knows LSSU administration, and if he truly does, consider me fooled.

 

[Laker Dude]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2015 off-season thread

Bill, the term "gong show" that I used probably was too strong and unintentionally disrespectful, so I am willing to retract that; as you pointed out, I was just conveying that I don't think the skills of last seasons team was up to where it had been in years past.

DM2SM, for what it is worth, I wouldn't know Bill in the real world if he came up and stepped on my shoe, what I do know is I have been a regular poster on this forum for the past 8 years and have read hundreds, if not thousands of Bill's posts and I can honestly say that in that time there hasn't been a single instance where I had a shred of suspicion that he had an "in" with anyone in LSSU's administration. I've gathered that he lives downstate and only catches a few games in person per year, but he vigorously follows Lake State's program, more-so maybe than any other forum member on this site, especially as it pertains to recruiting. He has called out those on the hill several times (rightly so), and has been consistent with his support of the entire Lake State program, not just with specific names/factions within the program. For all of those reasons I feel confident in saying that there's no way he knows LSSU administration, and if he truly does, consider me fooled.

He does not have an "in" with anyone in the administration. I vaguely know who Bill is, as he has sat near us at a few past home games throughout the years.

 

[sm2pk]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2015 off-season thread

Lakers are pre-season picked at or near the bottom every season for one reason and one reason only ,lack of talent. Whitten could only work with what he had and the coaches and media polls at the start of last season told him and everyone else that the Lake State team had very little talent. I don't hold this past season against Whitten . Hell, the media and coaches poll were telling him before the season started that it was going to be a long losing season .

 

[CKrouth]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2015 off-season thread

Please join us Friday, July 24 for the 33rd Annual Soo Blueliners Golf Outing, sponsored by Four Seasons Market & Bordertown Chiropractic.

Tournament Format is a 9-hole, 4-person scramble beginning at 4:30pm on the beautiful Wild Bluff Golf Course in Brimley, MI with dinner included after play. Cost is $60 for members, $75 for non-members, & $45 for students.

Not a golfer? Join the Blueliners and former Laker Hockey players at 7pm for dinner & silent auction, where we will have many great items up for bid. Cost for dinner is $15.

 

[eye4talent]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2015 off-season thread

I would be very interested to know what those close to the team at Michigan Tech would have to say about Damon Whitten, especially the players, along with what some of those from this past season. Does he garner respect in the locker room? Is he fair? How are academics prioritized? Is discipline handled fairly and evenly? I think these are questions, all Laker fans would be interested in knowing of their head coach.

He was well respected by the players, athletic department and in the community.

 

[lakersparty]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2015 off-season thread

Well people, that resume' now includes a head coaching position and it is entirely fair to hold him accountable for guiding the Laker team that broke the LSSU record for most losses in a season (28). This was in the new WCHA. Not the old CCHA playing UM, ND, MU, MSU etc.

He didn't break the record. He tied Anzalone's 28 losses of 2002-03. Plus it was his first year and the Lakers did do something they hadn't done in ages -- win a holiday tournament. The program can't be rebuilt in one season. Now if he puts up a second stinker year like Anzalone did by losing 27 and 28 games in back-to-back seasons then it's fair to start questioning some things.

 

[John J. MacInnes]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2015 off-season thread

Just for reference, here are the first three year records for three coaches:

Coach #1
84-85 13-26-1
85-86 12-26
86-87 14-25-1

Coach #2
95-96 9-23-4
96-97 9-25-1
97-98 18-19-4

Coach #3
01-02 8-27-2
02-03 6-28-4
03-04 9-20-7

Astute college hockey fans can figure out who each of them are. Once you've figured them out, tell me which of them you'd like to have running your program. Then Lakerbaker will tell you why their records are the only thing that mattered anyway.