Lindenwood University (St. Charles, MO) moves to NCAA starting in 2011

[sbkbghockey]

Re: Lindenwood University (St. Charles, MO) moves to NCAA starting in 2011

As a Girls' Hockey parent and fan, there's no more exciting news than a University adding a new DI program in Women's Hockey. That's why it's a bummer to see all the naysaying and boo-hooing on this forum about Lindenwood.
Everybody is always talking about 'growing' girls'/women's hockey--here's is a perfect test to see if people are serious about that. Some of you are talking like it's a terrible imposition that this team is being formed and that they shouldn't dare expect other teams/coaches/players to give them the time of day. Others sound like they're looking forward to seeing the team fail miserably and then being able to sit back and say "I told you so."
Nobody doubted that Syracuse would be a success when they started their program a few years ago--same feeling with Penn State. Those are two huge schools with huge athletic budgets and huge athletic traditions. I doubt that Niagara or Colgate were ever worried that Syracuse would 'make it' in Women's hockey--they probably felt more like the Orange would blow by them, success-wise, in a couple years. Same with Mid-Atlantic institutions with respect to Penn State--I don't think UConn or Mercyhurst or Robert Morris are too worried that Penn State will struggle more than a couple years.
However, with Lindenwood you have a completely different challenge. This is a mid-size private university located in a non-traditional hockey area trying to make a huge jump from club hockey to DI (only Neb-Omaha and Ala-Huntsville come to mind on the Men's side). All those who are serious about growing Women's hockey need to step up right now, which is why it's not surprising that someone like Mark Johnson would suck it up and schedule the fledgling team next season. If Brad Frost or Eric Means or Jeff Geisen are serious about expanding opportunities for Minnesota HS girls, shouldn't they be willing to sacrifice one weekend toward that goal and head down to Missouri? I bet if they explained to their players what an opportunity this program represents in the long term that they'd be more than willing to take the 8-hour bus ride in support of the girls coming up behind them.
If Lindenwood succeeds, it would open the door wide to programs from unexpected places to consider adding Women's hockey, either to balance Title IX numbers instead of Lacrosse, Field Hockey, or silly things like Crew or just out of love of the game.

I agree, we should be happy with any new schools to women's and men's hockey. Lindenwood may not be the name brand school like Penn State but it is pretty well known in the Midwest and has plans to continue growing in both academics and athletics.

The only part I disagree with a bit is the last paragraph. I hope Penn State and LU will help spark a growth in NCAA hockey, but LU has one thing even a lot of name brand schools don't have- MONEY!! We've seen what happens to programs when pennies are pinched with Wayne State last week. (LU does offer Lacrosse and Field hockey too btw) Lacrosse is one of the fastest growing NCAA sports because it is a sport growing in popularity and it's cheap- schools already have the facilities to add Lax or field hockey. Football costs a lot, hockey and crew have specialized facility needs so only schools like LU with money will add them, and the occasional lucky school like PSU who has billionaire hockey fans for alumni.

 

[Hux]

Re: Lindenwood University (St. Charles, MO) moves to NCAA starting in 2011

I agree, we should be happy with any new schools to women's and men's hockey. Lindenwood may not be the name brand school like Penn State but it is pretty well known in the Midwest and has plans to continue growing in both academics and athletics.

The only part I disagree with a bit is the last paragraph. I hope Penn State and LU will help spark a growth in NCAA hockey, but LU has one thing even a lot of name brand schools don't have- MONEY!! We've seen what happens to programs when pennies are pinched with Wayne State last week. (LU does offer Lacrosse and Field hockey too btw) Lacrosse is one of the fastest growing NCAA sports because it is a sport growing in popularity and it's cheap- schools already have the facilities to add Lax or field hockey. Football costs a lot, hockey and crew have specialized facility needs so only schools like LU with money will add them, and the occasional lucky school like PSU who has billionaire hockey fans for alumni.

Agree. Small private schools often use sports as a way to increase their name recognition. Quinnipiac is a perfect example. Bryant University is doing the same thing, though unfortunately, not in hockey.

 

[fanof the game]

Re: Lindenwood University (St. Charles, MO) moves to NCAA starting in 2011

Int A or AA? I know they recruited an Int AA (PWHL) PLayer from Ontario Kendra Broad.

 

[canadahockey26]

Re: Lindenwood University (St. Charles, MO) moves to NCAA starting in 2011

Int A, a goalie.

 

[elboshi]

Re: Lindenwood University (St. Charles, MO) moves to NCAA starting in 2011

Best wishes to Lindenwood. I believe some are missing the point that it creates more opportunities for women's hockey. We must remember that at this point these players have 4 more years and then they are pretty much done!

WIRinkrat, you just don't get it and you crack me up. Your comments about Sacred Heart reflect your ignorance about the big picture. SHU is a great school that offers better academics than most of the "powerful hockey institutions", is in a beautiful and safe environment, and is moving forward with a more challenging schedule while in the mix for strong recruits.

Lindenwood will take time to build, recruit and find success at this level, but that's OK...congrats to them for stepping up and creating a great opportunity for more players while it is a terrible day for women's hockey when Wayne State closes shop.

 

[WIrinkrat]

Re: Lindenwood University (St. Charles, MO) moves to NCAA starting in 2011

WIRinkrat, you just don't get it and you crack me up. Your comments about Sacred Heart reflect your ignorance about the big picture. SHU is a great school that offers better academics than most of the "powerful hockey institutions", is in a beautiful and safe environment, and is moving forward with a more challenging schedule while in the mix for strong recruits.

First of all, the academics have nothing to do with it. Nobody with the hockey ability to play at a "powerful hockey institution" is going to say well I could go to BC or UNH or Wisconsin or Mercyhurst, but I'll go to Sacred Heart for the academics. Let's be real, Sacred Heart is not this amazing leader in academia.

Second of all, if you call 25 of your 32 games coming against D3 and club opponents (8-14 against D3, 0-7 against D1...at least they were 3-0 against club teams!) a more challenging schedule, then more power to you. As to the strong recruits they are in the mix for....yeah, okay.

How is life in fantasy land?

 

[Sean Pickett]

Re: Lindenwood University (St. Charles, MO) moves to NCAA starting in 2011

If Lindenwood succeeds, it would open the door wide to programs from unexpected places to consider adding Women's hockey, either to balance Title IX numbers instead of Lacrosse, Field Hockey, or silly things like Crew or just out of love of the game.

I thought your post was thoughtful and well written and then I came to you last sentence. It's unfortunate that you ended by choosing to look down at other sports and denigrating crew. They deserve just as much support and respect as ice hockey.

Sean

 

[ARM]

Re: Lindenwood University (St. Charles, MO) moves to NCAA starting in 2011

Some of you are talking like it's a terrible imposition that this team is being formed and that they shouldn't dare expect other teams/coaches/players to give them the time of day.

It's not like Lindenwood is going to be blacklisted, but is it realistic to think that they should jump to the front of every team's desired opponent list? I'm sure that there are a lot of existing teams where the coaches have talked about playing each other but they haven't been able to make it work because of small travel budgets and lack of available dates on the calendar. Coaches are paid to take care of their team first. I'm sure that they'd all like to help out a new program, but they have other priorities. Will some play Lindenwood? Sure. Should all of the top teams play Lindenwood? To what purpose?

Over the years, there have been many complaints about youth tournaments that don't do enough to place teams in the proper divisions, leading to lopsided games. For the sport of women's hockey to grow, it needs competitive games. IMO, Lindenwood should take a realistic estimate of how talented their team will be in the first season, and then attempt to schedule as many games as possible against teams of that ability or slightly better. Playing a bunch of games against opponents that are beyond the ability of your team doesn't serve anyone.

The good news is that the Lindenwood program will apparently have some budget at their disposal. Perhaps they can pay travel expenses to entice some opponents that otherwise could not afford the trip to MO.

While I admire many things about Mark Johnson, his selection of non-conference opponents is definitely not one of them. In his time at the helm, have the Badgers hosted even one top-ten non-WCHA opponent in Madison? The Gophers' series against teams like PC and UNH in the early years of the program were a big factor in growing my interest in the sport, as opposed to blowout wins over SCSU. How about Coach Johnson giving something back to his own fan base once in a while? A steady diet of cupcakes isn't healthy.

 

[granddaddyscout]

Re: Lindenwood University (St. Charles, MO) moves to NCAA starting in 2011

While I admire many things about Mark Johnson, his selection of non-conference opponents is definitely not one of them. In his time at the helm, have the Badgers hosted even one top-ten non-WCHA opponent in Madison? The Gophers' series against teams like PC and UNH in the early years of the program were a big factor in growing my interest in the sport, as opposed to blowout wins over SCSU. How about Coach Johnson giving something back to his own fan base once in a while? A steady diet of cupcakes isn't healthy.

Let's give credit where credit is due. MJ certainly isn't afraid to play anyone, with a WCHA schedule that is loaded with competitive games I think he seeks to help new and lower end programs gain some credibility. He brought Syracuse out in their first year as well. This year BU will be in Madison and in years past UW has played Providence and other out east. Don't think you can really criticize his scheduling.

 

[ARM]

Re: Lindenwood University (St. Charles, MO) moves to NCAA starting in 2011

This year BU will be in Madison ...

That would be one then. It's about time.

 

[granddaddyscout]

Re: Lindenwood University (St. Charles, MO) moves to NCAA starting in 2011

That would be one then. It's about time.

He needs teams willing to come as well. It is not an easy travel destination and many teams don't want to give up two losses along with paying a premium to get there. Again I think you are reaching using this as a criticism. How about calling our Cornell on scheduling soft teams first, just for starters

 

[pakidnyc]

He needs teams willing to come as well. It is not an easy travel destination and many teams don't want to give up two losses along with paying a premium to get there. Again I think you are reaching using this as a criticism. How about calling our Cornell on scheduling soft teams first, just for starters

Bu, Mercyhurst. In conference vs Dartmouth not exactly a gimme.

 

[granddaddyscout]

Re: Lindenwood University (St. Charles, MO) moves to NCAA starting in 2011

Bu, Mercyhurst. In conference vs Dartmouth not exactly a gimme.

Seriuosly, that is 6 games. Dart amd MC won't be as strong Minny, ND, UMD, which is 12 games for UW. Then UW has the rest of the WCHA schedule. My point is simply that there are a lot of schools worthy of weak schedule consideration well before UW.

 

[ARM]

Re: Lindenwood University (St. Charles, MO) moves to NCAA starting in 2011

He needs teams willing to come as well. It is not an easy travel destination and many teams don't want to give up two losses along with paying a premium to get there. Again I think you are reaching using this as a criticism. How about calling our Cornell on scheduling soft teams first, just for starters

If it takes almost ten years for a coach of a top team to host a tough national opponent, I don't think he's trying too hard. I'd call the Big Red on it, except that since they've risen to the top, they've played a tougher nonconference schedule that UW.

 

[granddaddyscout]

Re: Lindenwood University (St. Charles, MO) moves to NCAA starting in 2011

If it takes almost ten years for a coach of a top team to host a tough national opponent, I don't think he's trying too hard. I'd call the Big Red on it, except that since they've risen to the top, they've played a tougher nonconference schedule that UW.

It seems to me that MJ is doing what he can given the challenges.

Here is his history with top 10 teams. 02-03; Northeastern ranked 9th in Madison, MC 10th at MC, St Lawrence 5th at SL. 04-05; Harvard 4th at Harvard. 08-09; UNH 3rd at UNH. Doesn’t seem like much but he has had 8 season’s with generally 2-3 dates maximum to work with.

1. It certainly looks like the east coast teams don’t reciprocate or are just unwilling in to play in Madison. MC, Harvard, UNH, and SL all hosted UW but apparently did not reciprocate.
2. UW in most years UW schedule only 1 non-con weekend at home, scheduling top ten teams is a challenge when 4-5 top 10 teams are already in you conference and you only have one date to work with given the shared use of the Kohl.
3. UW doesn’t need tough non-con games given the strength of the WCHA, but clearly they are willing to travel to play tough non-com teams so it seems safe to assume they would be happy to host them.

So again hard to be critical. It is my understanding the BU is committed to a Home and Home, my thought is that MJ will play tough teams that are willing to reciprocate.

 

[Sean Pickett]

Re: Lindenwood University (St. Charles, MO) moves to NCAA starting in 2011

IMO, Lindenwood should take a realistic estimate of how talented their team will be in the first season, and then attempt to schedule as many games as possible against teams of that ability or slightly better. Playing a bunch of games against opponents that are beyond the ability of your team doesn't serve anyone.

This is what Coach Durocher has done with BU. Several posters on this board called BU's schedule weak last season, but realistically I think it was an appropriate schedule for a team in their sixth season of existence. And this season, their non-conference schedule includes 4 WCHA games (2 each vs North Dakota and at Wisconsin) and 2 at Cornell. I also believe that BU will be playing single games at St. Lawrence and Clarkson, leaving three other nc games, one which might be hosting Harvard, and the Beanpot. Compare that to their first season when they played Quinnipiac, Union (2), at Dartmouth, at Rensselaer (2), Robert Morris (2), Sacred Heart and at Brown.

Sean

 

[ARM]

Re: Lindenwood University (St. Charles, MO) moves to NCAA starting in 2011

This is what Coach Durocher has done with BU. Several posters on this board called BU's schedule weak last season, but realistically I think it was an appropriate schedule for a team in their sixth season of existence. And this season, their non-conference schedule includes 4 WCHA games (2 each vs North Dakota and at Wisconsin) and 2 at Cornell. I also believe that BU will be playing single games at St. Lawrence and Clarkson, leaving three other nc games, one which might be hosting Harvard, and the Beanpot.

That's a very nice non-conference slate. And given that there should be some improvement in HEA teams like Northeastern and UNH, BU should be well-tested. The only question to be answered will be if somebody for the league emerges to push them for that top spot.

 

[123kidd]

Re: Lindenwood University (St. Charles, MO) moves to NCAA starting in 2011

So who does LU have on their schedule this year? There must be some families, recruits, players, fans who have "heard" who they're playing in 11-12. Which DI and which DIII teams are they playing? I've seen the UND, WI, and MC thrown around here, but there must be something more solid than rumors out there.

 

[whoop87]

Re: Lindenwood University (St. Charles, MO) moves to NCAA starting in 2011

GranddaddyScout - Wisconsin played two games at UNH in '06-'07 and then the Badgers hosted two games in Fort Myers, Florida the following year. UNH did reciprocate but the Wisco 'home games' were a bit farther away from campus than the Kohl Center that year.

 

[granddaddyscout]

Re: Lindenwood University (St. Charles, MO) moves to NCAA starting in 2011

GranddaddyScout - Wisconsin played two games at UNH in '06-'07 and then the Badgers hosted two games in Fort Myers, Florida the following year. UNH did reciprocate but the Wisco 'home games' were a bit farther away from campus than the Kohl Center that year.

Sorry I missed that, it was actually 08/09 that they played UNH in Ft Myers as home games. They were number 2 at the time so with that addition I think MJ has a pretty good record of top teams being invited to play.