Lindenwood University Lions 2011-12

[OnMAA]

Re: Lindenwood University Lions 2011-12

Give both teams a full year of recruiting and expect both of them to be vastly improved next year. Once the word is out there that both teams are serious, it will lead to more quality recruits coming in. Syracuse was admitted to the CHA year one, so why not Lindenwood.

As far as geography is concerned, it would be much more logical, to put The OHIO in the CHA and Lindenwood in the WCHA, but I guess OHIO is married to the Wisco's and Minny's of the world in other sports.

 

[ARM]

Re: Lindenwood University Lions 2011-12

Give both teams a full year of recruiting and expect both of them to be vastly improved next year. Once the word is out there that both teams are serious, it will lead to more quality recruits coming in. Syracuse was admitted to the CHA year one, so why not Lindenwood.

In the short term, CHA teams with NCAA aspirations -- at this point, probably only Mercyhurst -- will have the worst of both worlds. They'll have 20 games of their possible 34 dedicated to a comparatively weak CHA schedule, but they won't yet have an automatic bid available. They will need to get maximum bang for the buck in those other 14 games.

 

[Hux]

Re: Lindenwood University Lions 2011-12

The CHA really wants to get to more than four teams, but Linenwood is not ready. I think they should not be allowed in simply because they are not good enough. Same goes for Penn State... not good enough. CHA should stay with four teams.

Lindenwood is competing with a predominately club team roster. Once the club level players are out and solid D1 level recruits are in the scores will improve. It may take a few seasons, but they will be fine.

 

[123kidd]

Re: Lindenwood University Lions 2011-12

I'm sure they are really looking forward to this weekend! Maybe a win or two? I doubt they will give up double digits this weekend.

 

[backcheck]

Re: Lindenwood University Lions 2011-12

The first part of the Lindenwood schedule was perhaps too ambitious. It certainly has set the bar with what it will take to transition its young squad into a competitor moving forward.

Agreed, this weekend will be a better gauge as to where they currently are versus where they must get to compete at the D1 level.

 

[giwan]

Re: Lindenwood University Lions 2011-12

The CHA really wants to get to more than four teams, but Linenwood is not ready. I think they should not be allowed in simply because they are not good enough. Same goes for Penn State... not good enough. CHA should stay with four teams.

Since when is not good enough a criteria? Allowing them in will aide them in getting good enough.

Not sure what all the criteria is but some type of commitment needs to be shown, wish schollies, ice etc.

 

[backcheck]

Re: Lindenwood University Lions 2011-12

Lindenwood has been admitted to the CHA for next season.

 

[granddaddyscout]

Re: Lindenwood University Lions 2011-12

Lindenwood has been admitted to the CHA for next season.

Of course they are, the CHA would accept just about anyone that is interested to qualify for an NCAA Autobid. Given the drop off at Mercyhurst we may be looking at a auto-bid for a very undeserving team in the future which is likely to penalize the West where surprisingly the teams seem to be stronger this year than last.

 

[ARM]

Re: Lindenwood University Lions 2011-12

By the time that the CHA is actually awarded an automatic bid, the strength of the conference could be much different. I don't think it pays to spend four years worrying about something that may never prove to be a problem.

 

[granddaddyscout]

Re: Lindenwood University Lions 2011-12

By the time that the CHA is actually awarded an automatic bid, the strength of the conference could be much different. I don't think it pays to spend four years worrying about something that may never prove to be a problem.

Why will it take 4 years?

 

[DC78-82]

Re: Lindenwood University Lions 2011-12

Once upon a time there were a couple of schools that had club teams which struggled to keep up, and were guaranteed W's on every team's schedule. They went varsity, put the money and effort in, and within 3 - 5 years, both BC and BU became not only contenders, but FF participants. Not to mention North Dakota is the west.

Maybe it would be more convenient for Hockey East if they had blocked Maine and Vermont from ever entering the league, because clearly they "weren't good enough" at the outset. Bet BC and Providence wishes HE hadn't thought them "worthy" (and we host UVM tonight - don't think anyone takes that lightly anymore)

If the CHA wants an autobid they need to strengthen the league in both numbers and quality from top to bottom, and of course that takes time, but it will take longer if the teams that are willing and able to put a program in the league get bad mouthed, particularly by people who are outside the league. Potential players who constantly hear from others that so and so a school will never be anything, bad move to go there..., may just remember and dismiss the school out of hand just because they heard a rumor or opinion. Who knows, maybe they have more than just hockey on their list, and they lost a perfect educational opportunity based on an off handed comment? If you want that league to grow, and raise the level of every league by being competitive, you have to celebrate and encourage, not denigrate and discourage.

I don't think women's hockey, collegiate or otherwise, is at the point where elitism could be condoned. The game is growing from the youth ranks, and the talent pool keeps getting deeper and deeper. There are quality players making decisions to attend pioneer or traditionally weaker hockey schools for a balance of reasons, not just the chance to win the hardware, and are making these teams stronger one or two players at a time. If a school sees the value in pursuing a D-1 team and makes the commitment to the sport, is it right for established teams/leagues (and their "fans") to forget their own origins and close the door on them? Not in my mind.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Lindenwood University Lions 2011-12

Once upon a time there were a couple of schools that had club teams which struggled to keep up, and were guaranteed W's on every team's schedule. They went varsity, put the money and effort in, and within 3 - 5 years, both BC and BU became not only contenders, but FF participants. Not to mention North Dakota is the west.

Maybe it would be more convenient for Hockey East if they had blocked Maine and Vermont from ever entering the league, because clearly they "weren't good enough" at the outset. Bet BC and Providence wishes HE hadn't thought them "worthy" (and we host UVM tonight - don't think anyone takes that lightly anymore)

If the CHA wants an autobid they need to strengthen the league in both numbers and quality from top to bottom, and of course that takes time, but it will take longer if the teams that are willing and able to put a program in the league get bad mouthed, particularly by people who are outside the league. Potential players who constantly hear from others that so and so a school will never be anything, bad move to go there..., may just remember and dismiss the school out of hand just because they heard a rumor or opinion. Who knows, maybe they have more than just hockey on their list, and they lost a perfect educational opportunity based on an off handed comment? If you want that league to grow, and raise the level of every league by being competitive, you have to celebrate and encourage, not denigrate and discourage.

I don't think women's hockey, collegiate or otherwise, is at the point where elitism could be condoned. The game is growing from the youth ranks, and the talent pool keeps getting deeper and deeper. There are quality players making decisions to attend pioneer or traditionally weaker hockey schools for a balance of reasons, not just the chance to win the hardware, and are making these teams stronger one or two players at a time. If a school sees the value in pursuing a D-1 team and makes the commitment to the sport, is it right for established teams/leagues (and their "fans") to forget their own origins and close the door on them? Not in my mind.

Well Said, and like to echo those sentiments. THIS !

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Lindenwood University Lions 2011-12

Why will it take 4 years?

Wondering as well. If Penn and Lindenwood both join next season, would the CHA not get the Auto-Bid right away, since they meet the numbers quota, or is there a time frame attached to it as well. ?

 

[prepster]

Re: Lindenwood University Lions 2011-12

Wondering as well. If Penn and Lindenwood both join next season, would the CHA not get the Auto-Bid right away, since they meet the numbers quota, or is there a time frame attached to it as well. ?

31.3.4.2 Requirements—National Collegiate Championship. [#] To be eligible for automatic qualification
in a National Collegiate Championship, a member conference must meet the following general requirements:
(Adopted: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06)
(a) Have at least six active members that sponsor the applicable sport in any division (Note: A provisional
member in the process of becoming an NCAA member cannot be used to meet the requisite number.);
(b) The six active members must have conducted conference competition together for the preceding two
years in the applicable sport;
(c) There shall be no waivers of the two-year waiting period; and
(d) Any new member added to a conference that is eligible for an automatic bid shall be immediately eligible
to represent the conference as the automatic qualifier.

 

[granddaddyscout]

Re: Lindenwood University Lions 2011-12

Once upon a time there were a couple of schools that had club teams which struggled to keep up, and were guaranteed W's on every team's schedule. They went varsity, put the money and effort in, and within 3 - 5 years, both BC and BU became not only contenders, but FF participants. Not to mention North Dakota is the west.

Maybe it would be more convenient for Hockey East if they had blocked Maine and Vermont from ever entering the league, because clearly they "weren't good enough" at the outset. Bet BC and Providence wishes HE hadn't thought them "worthy" (and we host UVM tonight - don't think anyone takes that lightly anymore)

If the CHA wants an autobid they need to strengthen the league in both numbers and quality from top to bottom, and of course that takes time, but it will take longer if the teams that are willing and able to put a program in the league get bad mouthed, particularly by people who are outside the league. Potential players who constantly hear from others that so and so a school will never be anything, bad move to go there..., may just remember and dismiss the school out of hand just because they heard a rumor or opinion. Who knows, maybe they have more than just hockey on their list, and they lost a perfect educational opportunity based on an off handed comment? If you want that league to grow, and raise the level of every league by being competitive, you have to celebrate and encourage, not denigrate and discourage.

I don't think women's hockey, collegiate or otherwise, is at the point where elitism could be condoned. The game is growing from the youth ranks, and the talent pool keeps getting deeper and deeper. There are quality players making decisions to attend pioneer or traditionally weaker hockey schools for a balance of reasons, not just the chance to win the hardware, and are making these teams stronger one or two players at a time. If a school sees the value in pursuing a D-1 team and makes the commitment to the sport, is it right for established teams/leagues (and their "fans") to forget their own origins and close the door on them? Not in my mind.

Come on DC, no one is talking about black balling start up programs and I doubt any recruits look to see what folks are saying on USCHO before deciding between Penn State and Minnesota. I think it is great that the sport is growing and I hope that Syracuse, LW, Penn State, and others progress similarly to UND, BC, and BU. Is it elitist to want the best 8 teams possible in the NCAA Tournament? There are after all only 8 spots available and an auto-bid has the potential to impact 2 spots per conference. I agree with your comments that the CHA needs to strengthen itself from top to bottom, but they still will get the bid even if they don't. The CHA is uniquely problematic in that they have only one team that is constantly a top 10 team and they appear headed for a bit of a down cycle. So 2 scenarios, what if MH is ranked say 3-5 at the end of a season and they are upset by one of the other CHA teams for the auto bid. Will MH pay the price, or will another far more deserving team miss out on that opportunity. Then what if MH slips form the top 10 level for a few years is it really fair to reserve a spot for a group of 6 teams that have banded together when all of those teams are ranked between say 12 and 25. It seems to me that the best thing for the sport overall is to reward individual team performance. It seems to me that both BC and BU earned spots on their own last year how did having an auto bid help their development and would they both have gotten bids if Providence had won the tournament.

 

[ARM]

Re: Lindenwood University Lions 2011-12

It seems to me that both BC and BU earned spots on their own last year how did having an auto bid help their development and would they both have gotten bids if Providence had won the tournament.

Both BU and BC would have been in no matter what happened; they finished as the #3 and #4 seeds. Dartmouth was the last at-large team into the field and would have been the first team excluded had someone from outside the top 8 claimed an automatic bid.

 

[granddaddyscout]

Re: Lindenwood University Lions 2011-12

Both BU and BC would have been in no matter what happened; they finished as the #3 and #4 seeds. Dartmouth was the last at-large team into the field and would have been the first team excluded had someone from outside the top 8 claimed an automatic bid.

Ofcourse one of them would have had a loss if neither had won the conference championship. Also UMD played UW the number 1 seed, if I recall correctly there was no seeding of 5-8.

My point is simply that I don't think auto bids are good for Women's hokcey at is present state of development. I understand there is little chance it will change, but it will be interesting to see what happens as the sport develops.

 

[giwan]

Re: Lindenwood University Lions 2011-12

I don't think women's hockey, collegiate or otherwise, is at the point where elitism could be condoned. The game is growing from the youth ranks, and the talent pool keeps getting deeper and deeper. There are quality players making decisions to attend pioneer or traditionally weaker hockey schools for a balance of reasons, not just the chance to win the hardware, and are making these teams stronger one or two players at a time. If a school sees the value in pursuing a D-1 team and makes the commitment to the sport, is it right for established teams/leagues (and their "fans") to forget their own origins and close the door on them? Not in my mind.

Actually elitism is already occurring at the lower levels of women's hockey. Mean club and association teams especially in Michigan.

 

[ARM]

Re: Lindenwood University Lions 2011-12

Also UMD played UW the number 1 seed, if I recall correctly there was no seeding of 5-8.

You're correct that 5-8 weren't seeded, but Dartmouth was definitely the final at large team into the field.

My point is simply that I don't think auto bids are good for Women's hokcey at is present state of development.

Perhaps not, but there were two auto bids at times when it was only a four-team field, so four in an eight-team field would still allow twice as many at-large teams as we once had.

 

[sd2011]

Re: Lindenwood University Lions 2011-12

Lindenwood admitted to CHA for 2012-13. http://www.uscho.com/2011/11/11/lindenwood-formally-admitted-into-cha/

CHA might have auto-bid with 6 teams (Penn State; Niagara; RMU; Mercyhurst; Lindenwood; Syracuse) by 2014-15 at the earliest (but possibly later) depending on how NCAA views "conference competition" between these teams and the calculation of the two year period.