Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

[unofan]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

I don't see how someone who is here illegally should get any benefits from this country

The benefit in this case isn't to the mother, but to the kid, who is a U.S. citizen the day (s)he is born. The mother could be deported as soon as she leaves the hospital, frankly.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

The benefit in this case isn't to the mother, but to the kid, who is a U.S. citizen the day (s)he is born. The mother could be deported as soon as she leaves the hospital, frankly.

Is that usually the case though? Doesn't the term "anchor baby" derive from the fact that the baby, you know, "anchors" the mother in the US?

 

[walrus]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

The benefit in this case isn't to the mother, but to the kid, who is a U.S. citizen the day (s)he is born. The mother could be deported as soon as she leaves the hospital, frankly.

On paper maybe the benefit is to the kid but in reality I'm not so sure. Deport them both

 

[Priceless]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

On paper maybe the benefit is to the kid but in reality I'm not so sure. Deport them both

What other American citizens do you want to deport?

 

[unofan]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Is that usually the case though? Doesn't the term "anchor baby" derive from the fact that the baby, you know, "anchors" the mother in the US?

I know the INS (or ICE, whatever the **** it's called now) takes into account familial circumstances in deportation hearings, but I have no idea what the actual stats are. I've anecdotedly heard stories coming out both ways, though.

But the kid cannot sponsor his parents for a green card until he or she turns 21 at the earliest.

On paper maybe the benefit is to the kid but in reality I'm not so sure. Deport them both

Yeah, just automatically deport a U.S. Citizen. That's the ticket...

If you can get a Constitutional Amendment passed saying "anchor babies" aren't citizens, then fine. Until then, fark you.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

What other American citizens do you want to deport?

No need to deport American citizens here. Just those who manipulate the system and are here illegally to begin with.

 

[unofan]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

No need to deport American citizens here. Just those who manipulate the system and are here illegally to begin with.

Except, by definition, the kid wasn't here illegally since he is a U.S. citizen at birth.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Except, by definition, the kid wasn't here illegally since he is a U.S. citizen at birth.

Depending on your interpretation of whether he is, or should be, a citizen.

 

[unofan]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Depending on your interpretation of whether he is, or should be, a citizen.

Regardless of whether or not he should be, at present he is.

 

[walrus]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

If you can get a Constitutional Amendment passed saying "anchor babies" aren't citizens, then fine. Until then, fark you.

Thats what I'm after. I understand they are citizens now, I don't believe they should be. If the parents are here illegally then bye bye to both

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

I don't see how someone who is here illegally should get any benefits from this country

By "benefits" I assume you are referring to:

Living what is basically a clandestine exitence.

Working for peanuts, and in job conditions in which your alien status is held over your head by unscrupulous employers and cruel supervisors, preventing you from complaining about serious human rights, OSHA, wage and hour violations, protections the rest of us take for granted.

Understanding and accepting that the medicare/soc sec/wage withholding taken from your check each week will never, ever benefit you.

Sitting quietly by while money is withheld from your paycheck to pay back child support of the fellow who's social security number you were sold.

Passing on your tax refund.

Or, were you just talking about our great cable tv deals?

Conditions are centuries beyond what they came from, but anyone who thinks it's a life of milk and honey is sadly misguided.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Regardless of whether or not he should be, at present he is.

But the discussion is whether or not he should be. I don't see anyone saying there should be any retroactivity to this, so I don't think you can reasonably argue that's on the table or being proposed.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

But the discussion is whether or not he should be. I don't see anyone saying there should be any retroactivity to this, so I don't think you can reasonably argue that's on the table or being proposed.

But he only "is" because he "should be," under the law. Your "should be" has to do with your policy preferences, not the law. You will need to change the Constitution to put your new preference in place. If you can do that*, via con Dios.

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

It is what it is.

* And here's something to consider. If you can make that change by going to the people and getting an amendment, it's not going to come down to fine distinctions about Con Law, and you are going to have some pungent bedfellows. Not saying that should change your mind, but... ew.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

But he only "is" because he "should be," under the law. Your "should be" has to do with your policy preferences, not the law. You will need to change the Constitution to put your new preference in place. If you can do that*, via con Dios.

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

It is what it is.

* And here's something to consider. If you can make that change by going to the people and getting an amendment, it's not going to come down to fine distinctions about Con Law, and you are going to have some pungent bedfellows. Not saying that should change your mind, but... ew.

That's how it's been applied, but that's because, in some peoples' opinions, it was misapplied. Just like how lots of other stuff that's in the Constitution has been taken very different directions than how it was once applied. People just are a lot more ok with it when it's going a direction they like than when it is not.

So, you never answered my initial question of whether you approve of the baby mills in places like El Paso, where there are enormous numbers of mothers coming across the border just before giving birth, for the sole purpose of planting an anchor baby? I know someone who was becoming a doctor, and it's common for such people to go work in places like El Paso, because the volume of anchor babies is so massive, they can get in their 100 deliveries relatively quickly. My friend told me of all the 100 babies they delivered there for becoming a doctor, they believed all of them were anchor babies. As in nada from legal U.S. citizens.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Welcome back Bob!

 

[Priceless]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

That's how it's been applied, but that's because, in some peoples' opinions, it was misapplied. Just like how lots of other stuff that's in the Constitution has been taken very different directions than how it was once applied. People just are a lot more ok with it when it's going a direction they like than when it is not.

So, you never answered my initial question of whether you approve of the baby mills in places like El Paso, where there are enormous numbers of mothers coming across the border just before giving birth, for the sole purpose of planting an anchor baby? I know someone who was becoming a doctor, and it's common for such people to go work in places like El Paso, because the volume of anchor babies is so massive, they can get in their 100 deliveries relatively quickly. My friend told me of all the 100 babies they delivered there for becoming a doctor, they believed all of them were anchor babies. As in nada from legal U.S. citizens.

So what you're afraid of is those babies growing up and sponsoring their parents (assuming they're still alive) in 21 years?

 

[walrus]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Sitting quietly by while money is withheld from your paycheck to pay back child support of the fellow who's social security number you were sold.

I guess they should get a pat on the back for stealing someones identity, identity theives are such a great addition to our society, I think most people call them felons but...

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

I guess they should get a pat on the back for stealing someones identity, identity theives are such a great addition to our society, I think most people call them felons but...

Wow, I completely missed that when i first read it. That's pretty ridiculous on his part.

 

[walrus]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Wow, I completely missed that when i first read it. That's pretty ridiculous on his part.

They're only stealing the identites Americans won't steal

 

[Kepler]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

That's how it's been applied, but that's because, in some peoples' opinions, it was misapplied. Just like how lots of other stuff that's in the Constitution has been taken very different directions than how it was once applied. People just are a lot more ok with it when it's going a direction they like than when it is not.

Hmm. Well, that is a consistent application of the philosophy that there is a single, eternally unchanging meaning and if you want to change the application it's because the original interpretation was wrong. I don't subscribe to that view (I think the meaning has to be fluid enough to evolve to new circumstances or it becomes obsolete the moment the ink is dry), but OK, I can at least see the coherence of what you're saying.

Your argument that "baby mills" mean we should scrap birthright citizenship is a logical fallacy, like saying because criminals take advantage of the fifth amendment, we should scrap the fifth amendment.