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Priceless
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Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others
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Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others
- Thread starter ExileOnDaytonStreet
- Start date
unofan
Well-known member
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others
If only we had some part of government to decide which interpretation was correct. Perhaps where each side could make arguments and a person or a panel of multiple persons determined, or judged if you will, which side was correct.
United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898)
If only we had some part of government to decide which interpretation was correct. Perhaps where each side could make arguments and a person or a panel of multiple persons determined, or judged if you will, which side was correct.
United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898)
walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others
They had to reside in one or other country, correct? Thats the one.
They had to reside in one or other country, correct? Thats the one.
WeWantMore
New member
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others
Didn't this happen a long long time ago?
Didn't this happen a long long time ago?
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others
"The U.S. Department of Homeland Security, which by its own admission has thus far failed to control even half of America's nearly 2,000-mile-long border with Mexico, is now sending personnel to Afghanistan to help that country secure its border with Pakistan.
On a New Year's visit to Afghanistan, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said there are now 25 Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and Customs and Border Protection (CPB) personnel on the ground in Afghanistan. That number could reach 65 or more by the end of 2011, she said."
not sure why it would. Here's the text, as it wasn't real long.
"The U.S. Department of Homeland Security, which by its own admission has thus far failed to control even half of America's nearly 2,000-mile-long border with Mexico, is now sending personnel to Afghanistan to help that country secure its border with Pakistan.
On a New Year's visit to Afghanistan, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said there are now 25 Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and Customs and Border Protection (CPB) personnel on the ground in Afghanistan. That number could reach 65 or more by the end of 2011, she said."
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others
I believe it happens every so often. I recall hearing stories like this a number of times in the past.
I believe it happens every so often. I recall hearing stories like this a number of times in the past.
unofan
Well-known member
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others
Most if not all countries have some form of jus sanguinis, just like the U.S. - odds are she'd be a citizen of the mother's homeland and possibly her father's as well, depending on the laws of her father's homeland. You'd be either American, your mother's nationality, your father's nationality, or any combination thereof, depending on the exact situation.
In his situation, they're residing here in the U.S. - his hypothetical is what happens if birthright citizenship is removed.
Most if not all countries have some form of jus sanguinis, just like the U.S. - odds are she'd be a citizen of the mother's homeland and possibly her father's as well, depending on the laws of her father's homeland. You'd be either American, your mother's nationality, your father's nationality, or any combination thereof, depending on the exact situation.
In his situation, they're residing here in the U.S. - his hypothetical is what happens if birthright citizenship is removed.
WeWantMore
New member
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others
Hmm, you're right, it does sound like it was a new occurance. Here's the fixed link fwiw.
Anyways, the only reason I asked was because I recalled a tizzy on here a few months ago over a similar story.
Hmm, you're right, it does sound like it was a new occurance. Here's the fixed link fwiw.
Anyways, the only reason I asked was because I recalled a tizzy on here a few months ago over a similar story.
jmh
win or lose, we booze
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others
There's a double "http://" at the front of the link that breaks it. (I assumed that Priceless was making an uncreative joke about the Fox News source, but it was actually a broken link.
unofan
Well-known member
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others
Still the U.S. - no ex post facto laws - you can't strip citizenship from current citizens.
Still the U.S. - no ex post facto laws - you can't strip citizenship from current citizens.
jmh
win or lose, we booze
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others
I wonder whether the language about "have a permanent domicil[e] and residence in the United States" could be used to argue that the holding is not applicable to children of illegal immigrants.
I'm not familiar with the Wong Kim Ark case, but the Wikipedia article quotes the holding as the following:
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others
It would be a major stretch to claim that someone who walks across the border days or weeks before giving birth, gives birth, and then returns to Mexico (or remains illegally) would constitute a permanent domicile and residence. But, such are the contortions that take place to push political agendas.
It would be a major stretch to claim that someone who walks across the border days or weeks before giving birth, gives birth, and then returns to Mexico (or remains illegally) would constitute a permanent domicile and residence. But, such are the contortions that take place to push political agendas.
unofan
Well-known member
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others
Residence - a place you live in. You can have multiple residences.
Domicile - Whichever of your residences is your "home."
Thus, college kids/military people moving around the country often do not change domiciles, because their dorm room/military posting is not "home." But most adults who move for jobs do.
There's probably an argument that an illegal immigrant who is nine months pregnant and gives birth having just crossed the border has not established a residence or domicile in the country. But someone who's been living in Tucson for a week with no intention of moving back? They pass muster.
Residence - a place you live in. You can have multiple residences.
Domicile - Whichever of your residences is your "home."
Thus, college kids/military people moving around the country often do not change domiciles, because their dorm room/military posting is not "home." But most adults who move for jobs do.
There's probably an argument that an illegal immigrant who is nine months pregnant and gives birth having just crossed the border has not established a residence or domicile in the country. But someone who's been living in Tucson for a week with no intention of moving back? They pass muster.
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others
How does being somewhere a week relate to "permanent"? If they are an illegal in Tucson for a week, they're probably staying with relatives or friends and hiding out in case the Border Patrol or someone comes looking. They probably would have established utility service or other stuff that would normally signal some level of permanence in residence. But, there's probably some legal slight of hand to get around that if lawyers want to.
How does being somewhere a week relate to "permanent"? If they are an illegal in Tucson for a week, they're probably staying with relatives or friends and hiding out in case the Border Patrol or someone comes looking. They probably would have established utility service or other stuff that would normally signal some level of permanence in residence. But, there's probably some legal slight of hand to get around that if lawyers want to.
unofan
Well-known member
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others
Permanent, in this case, is a term describing a mental state regarding future actions, not a description of past actions. However, the past actions may show evidence of that future intent, or lackthereof.
Domicile and residences are basically presumed based upon the subjective feelings of the person, though the state can rebut that presumption if it has evidence to the contrary.
Domicile also transfers instantly, in theory anyway.
If I were to get a job in Arizona that required me to start next week, and I take it and move down there, I become a resident of Arizona, and my domicile transfers down there, the second I move down there with the intent to stay there. That's true even if I have to stay in a hotel, or my car, for a week until I find an apartment.
Permanent, in this case, is a term describing a mental state regarding future actions, not a description of past actions. However, the past actions may show evidence of that future intent, or lackthereof.
Domicile and residences are basically presumed based upon the subjective feelings of the person, though the state can rebut that presumption if it has evidence to the contrary.
Domicile also transfers instantly, in theory anyway.
If I were to get a job in Arizona that required me to start next week, and I take it and move down there, I become a resident of Arizona, and my domicile transfers down there, the second I move down there with the intent to stay there. That's true even if I have to stay in a hotel, or my car, for a week until I find an apartment.
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others
Certainly seems like there's enough wiggle room in this for people to read it differently. I'd read someone hiding out for a week with relatives in Tucson after having come across the border illegally would fall more toward the evidence of not being permanent than permanent. But, sounds like something lawyers would enjoy making money arguing about.
Certainly seems like there's enough wiggle room in this for people to read it differently. I'd read someone hiding out for a week with relatives in Tucson after having come across the border illegally would fall more toward the evidence of not being permanent than permanent. But, sounds like something lawyers would enjoy making money arguing about.
jmh
win or lose, we booze
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others
I think, in other words, that if a 9-months-pregnant woman were to cross the border to give birth in the USA, do so, and then return to Mexico, then that would not count as residence or domicile, whereas if the same woman were to cross the border, give birth, and intend to remain in the USA, that would be domicile, regardless of whether she had come into the country legally or whether she was hiding at a relative's home or something like that. That's my reading, anyway. Like Ben says, my understanding of domicile is that it's about your intent to make a place your home.
I think, in other words, that if a 9-months-pregnant woman were to cross the border to give birth in the USA, do so, and then return to Mexico, then that would not count as residence or domicile, whereas if the same woman were to cross the border, give birth, and intend to remain in the USA, that would be domicile, regardless of whether she had come into the country legally or whether she was hiding at a relative's home or something like that. That's my reading, anyway. Like Ben says, my understanding of domicile is that it's about your intent to make a place your home.