Ice Breaker Tournament: Clarkson vs. New Hampshire & Mercyhurst vs. Minnesota

[gopher wes]

Re: Ice Breaker Tournament: Clarkson vs. New Hampshire & Mercyhurst vs. Minnesota

I never knew tArrogance ever stopped.

For some, tArrogance is a maybe tempered. For Brent, not so much.

 

[SanTropez]

Re: Ice Breaker Tournament: Clarkson vs. New Hampshire & Mercyhurst vs. Minnesota

So what can we expect from Mercyhurst Clarkson or UNH?

Any fans care to chime in?

 

[drshoen]

Re: Ice Breaker Tournament: Clarkson vs. New Hampshire & Mercyhurst vs. Minnesota

So what can we expect from Mercyhurst Clarkson or UNH?

Any fans care to chime in?

Clarkson surprised me by winning both games at Niagara this weekend, but I think winning against UNH would be an even bigger surprise. I expect us to play well and beat Mercyhurst in the consolation game; if we managed a win against UNH, I expect to be happy with a weekend split

 

[D2D]

Re: Ice Breaker Tournament: Clarkson vs. New Hampshire & Mercyhurst vs. Minnesota

Clarkson surprised me by winning both games at Niagara this weekend, but I think winning against UNH would be an even bigger surprise. I expect us to play well and beat Mercyhurst in the consolation game; if we managed a win against UNH, I expect to be happy with a weekend split

That's what I call realistic expectations, which is kind of unusual around here where biased bravado is more the norm...

 

[drshoen]

Re: Ice Breaker Tournament: Clarkson vs. New Hampshire & Mercyhurst vs. Minnesota

That's what I call realistic expectations, which is kind of unusual around here where biased bravado is more the norm...

Given what Clarkson has been the last couple years, it's difficult to be optimistic. A sweep at Niagara may well be the season highlight

 

[Driftryder]

Re: Ice Breaker Tournament: Clarkson vs. New Hampshire & Mercyhurst vs. Minnesota

From Gophersports: http://www.gophersports.com/sports/m-hockey/spec-rel/100913aaa.html

The No. 5 University of Minnesota Golden Gopher men's hockey program officially opens the 2013-14 season this weekend as the host institution of the 2013 Ice Breaker Tournament. Mercyhurst, Clarkson and New Hampshire join the Gophers for the two-day, four-game tournament at Mariucci Arena. Clarkson and New Hampshire kick off the event at 4 p.m. CT on Friday while Minnesota hosts Mercyhurst at 7 p.m. The Ice Breaker Tournament uses a true championship format, meaning the losers of Friday's games will play on Saturday at 4 p.m. while the winners will face off in a championship game at 7 p.m.


In the Ice Breaker Tournament

Minnesota is hosting and appearing in the Ice Breaker Tournament for the third time. In 1998, the second year of the tournament, Boston College won the title at Mariucci Arena. In 2007, the event took place at the Xcel Energy Center in St. Paul, with the host Golden Gophers winning the tournament. Clarkson and New Hampshire are each making their third Ice Breaker appearances, with UNH capturing championships in both previous appearances (2000 at Michigan, 2004 at UNH). Clarkson was part of the first Ice Breaker Tournament, in 1997, and in 2001 at Maine. Mercyhurst will be making its first Ice Breaker appearance. Minnesota will also compete in the 2014 Ice Breaker Tournament at Notre Dame along with Minnesota-Duluth and RPI.

Against the Field

Minnesota has only faced off against Mercyhurst one time in program history, dropping the Lakers 9-2 in the opening round of the NCAA West Regional at Mariucci Arena. Two weeks later the Gophers captured their second-straight national championship in a 5-1 win over New Hampshire. Minnesota is 13-2-2 all time against UNH with the last meeting coming in 2008. Finally, the Gophers boast a 3-0-0 record against Clarkson in a series history that began in 1990 with the last meeting coming the 1993 NCAA East Regional in Worscester, Mass.

 

[joecct]

Re: Ice Breaker Tournament: Clarkson vs. New Hampshire & Mercyhurst vs. Minnesota

CCT vs the U (0-3)
1990 NCAA 1-6, 1-5
1993 NCAA 1-2

I think we're Oh-fer against tDon including his tenure at CC.

CCT vs UNH (battle of the best teams never to have won an NCAA title)
21-23-2 1st meeting 63-64 last meeting 04-05

CCT vs Mercyhurst
5-1-0 1st meeting 00-01 last meeting 12-13

 

[Aerman]

Re: Ice Breaker Tournament: Clarkson vs. New Hampshire & Mercyhurst vs. Minnesota

UNH - a well-deserved reputation for playing their best at the start of the year will hopefully be on display this weekend.
They may be most interesting on the blue line where they have a returning all-American in TVR, a big senior captain likely to find himself in the NHL in the not too distant future (Knodel) and a sophomore who made the US u20 team (Pesce). The fourth d-man (Agosta) is experienced and competent and ... there is no and. Quast and Cleland will almost certainly get the other two spots. Quast has very little game experience and looked lost in last week's exhibition. Cleland is an undersized freshman who didn't look ready for prime time, but appears to #5 in "quality." How the defense fairs may vary wildly shift to shift.
IMO, the forwards are really deep, deep in third line talent. For sure Goumas and Downing have real skills, and the freshman Kelleher is well-regarded. Many of the upper-classmen have had outstanding games and stretches of games, but haven't shown sustained success. I continue to worry who will put pucks in the net. Admittedly, I am on the more negative side of our fan base vis-a-vis the offense. Someone else will likely chime in and set me straight.
Both goalies are competent, neither is likely to steal a game. Junior deSmith has been the starter for a season and a half. At times his numbers have been outstanding, but I've always taken him at his word that it is really the defense in front of him. When the forwards embraced their defensive roles, this team was VERY good last year, climbing to first in the polls. Then they seemed to stop.
I hope the defensive squad shows up in MN.

 

[Snively65]

Re: Ice Breaker Tournament: Clarkson vs. New Hampshire & Mercyhurst vs. Minnesota

I did not see the exhibition game this past weekend, but I think that Aerman's summary is a good one. Sorry that I cannot be at Mariucci this weekend; been 10+ years since I watched Vanek and the Gophers end UNH bid for a NC at Exel.

 

[goldy_331]

Re: Ice Breaker Tournament: Clarkson vs. New Hampshire & Mercyhurst vs. Minnesota

I did not see the exhibition game this past weekend, but I think that Aerman's summary is a good one. Sorry that I cannot be at Mariucci this weekend; been 10+ years since I watched Vanek and the Gophers end UNH bid for a NC at Exel.

Um, Maine ended the bid at the Excel, Minnesota ended it the following year in Buffalo.

ETA: I did have to go look it up to make sure I was remembering correctly.

 

[Koho]

Re: Ice Breaker Tournament: Clarkson vs. New Hampshire & Mercyhurst vs. Minnesota

Historically the Gophers Achilles heel has been its inability to get the puck in the net. So yes, Rau...and also the question to whether Cammy can turn into a top rate college level natural scorer.

Wisconsin, yes. Gophers historically having trouble getting puck into net? Seems they were #1 in Nation last year. Not enough goals in the last game of the season has been a problem though in most years.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Ice Breaker Tournament: Clarkson vs. New Hampshire & Mercyhurst vs. Minnesota

Wisconsin, yes. Gophers historically having trouble getting puck into net? Seems they were #1 in Nation last year. Not enough goals in the last game of the season has been a problem though in most years.

Historically a lack of scoring has been the team's Achilles heel when its had one, yes. In the last 11 years when the Gophers have been in the top 3 scoring teams in the WCHA...we have 2 national championships, 2 national 3rd plc finishes, 4 regular season championships and a couple of WCHA championships. When the Gophers have not been in the WCHA top 3 in offense...they have a total of no WCHA championships of any type and just one national tourney visit where they bowed out in the first game.

...and to your point, scoring in the last game has killed them. They have scored just 2 goals in 4 games they lost in the national tourney and a single goal in another. The only time they scored 3 was against Holy Cross (where they probably should have been able to put up a forth).

The Gophs will need offense this season...just like any other.

 

[Koho]

Re: Ice Breaker Tournament: Clarkson vs. New Hampshire & Mercyhurst vs. Minnesota

Historically a lack of scoring has been the team's Achilles heel when its had one, yes. In the last 11 years when the Gophers have been in the top 3 scoring teams in the WCHA...we have 2 national championships, 2 national 3rd plc finishes, 4 regular season championships and a couple of WCHA championships. When the Gophers have not been in the WCHA top 3 in offense...they have a total of no WCHA championships of any type and just one national tourney visit where they bowed out in the first game.

...and to your point, scoring in the last game has killed them. They have scored just 2 goals in 4 games they lost in the national tourney and a single goal in another. The only time they scored 3 was against Holy Cross (where they probably should have been able to put up a forth).

The Gophs will need offense this season...just like any other.

My point is that the Gophs have always played an offensive, puck-control type game, and yes, that style doesn't work well in years when the team can't score. But your statement; "Historically the Gophers Achilles heel has been its inability to get the puck in the net", I would guess to most people, implies that they are a team that doesn't have a history of putting up goals. I don't know the stats, but I would bet that the long term average goals per game for the Gophers is higher than most teams in the country. "Achilles heal" implies something to most people that is a weakness that always/regularly exists (hence reference to Bucky in recent years.) (I'm sure Harley could write 3-4 paragraphs on the definition and use of the term 'Achilles Heal' for us.) A team that has a history of scoring problems wouldn't have multiple years as the top scoring team in the WCHA or country. My point being, that if you meant they had problems scoring in their bad years, well I think you could say that about every team that ever existed. If any team lost a lot of games in a season, they typically didn't score a lot.

For this year, they will probably need to make up a lot of scoring lost from last year, because it isn't likely all the young forwards will play as consistently on defense, and the defensive Corp probably took a step down as well with loss of 3 upperclassmen. So if they don't have a good season, it will probably be a combo of reduced scoring and less solid D.

 

[Koho]

Re: Ice Breaker Tournament: Clarkson vs. New Hampshire & Mercyhurst vs. Minnesota

Historically a lack of scoring has been the team's Achilles heel when its had one, yes. In the last 11 years when the Gophers have been in the top 3 scoring teams in the WCHA...we have 2 national championships, 2 national 3rd plc finishes, 4 regular season championships and a couple of WCHA championships. When the Gophers have not been in the WCHA top 3 in offense...they have a total of no WCHA championships of any type and just one national tourney visit where they bowed out in the first game.

...and to your point, scoring in the last game has killed them. They have scored just 2 goals in 4 games they lost in the national tourney and a single goal in another. The only time they scored 3 was against Holy Cross (where they probably should have been able to put up a forth).

The Gophs will need offense this season...just like any other.

My point is that the Gophs have always played an offensive, puck-control type game, and yes, that style doesn't work well in years when the team can't score. But your statement; "Historically the Gophers Achilles heel has been its inability to get the puck in the net", I would guess to most people, implies that they are a team that doesn't have a history of putting up goals. I don't know the stats, but I would bet that the long term average goals per game for the Gophers is higher than most teams in the country. "Achilles heal" implies something to most people that is a weakness that always/regularly exists (hence reference to Bucky in recent years.) (I'm sure Harley could write 3-4 paragraphs on the definition and use of the term 'Achilles Heal' for us.) A team that has a history of scoring problems wouldn't have multiple years as the top scoring team in the WCHA or country. My point being, that if you meant they had problems scoring in their bad years, well I think you could say that about every team that ever existed. If any team lost a lot of games in a season, they typically didn't score a lot.

For this year, they will probably need to make up a lot of scoring lost from last year, because it isn't likely all the young forwards will play as consistently on defense, and the defensive Corp probably took a step down as well with loss of 3 upperclassmen. So if they don't have a good season, it will probably be a combo of reduced scoring and less solid D.

 

[Koho]

Re: Ice Breaker Tournament: Clarkson vs. New Hampshire & Mercyhurst vs. Minnesota

Don't ask. I posted, and it went up twice. I deleted one, and there were still 2.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Ice Breaker Tournament: Clarkson vs. New Hampshire & Mercyhurst vs. Minnesota

First of all, it's "Achilles' HEEL" not "heal."

Second of all: won't matter. Gophers win the tourney.

 

[Koho]

Re: Ice Breaker Tournament: Clarkson vs. New Hampshire & Mercyhurst vs. Minnesota

First of all, it's "Achilles' HEEL" not "heal."

Second of all: won't matter. Gophers win the tourney.

I would like to say I did that to make his point more preposterous, but I guess I'll admit, my spelling is bad enough that I didn't catch that mistake.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Ice Breaker Tournament: Clarkson vs. New Hampshire & Mercyhurst vs. Minnesota

My point is that the Gophs have always played an offensive, puck-control type game, and yes, that style doesn't work well in years when the team can't score. But your statement; "Historically the Gophers Achilles heel has been its inability to get the puck in the net", I would guess to most people, implies that they are a team that doesn't have a history of putting up goals. I don't know the stats, but I would bet that the long term average goals per game for the Gophers is higher than most teams in the country. "Achilles heal" implies something to most people that is a weakness that always/regularly exists (hence reference to Bucky in recent years.) (I'm sure Harley could write 3-4 paragraphs on the definition and use of the term 'Achilles Heal' for us.) A team that has a history of scoring problems wouldn't have multiple years as the top scoring team in the WCHA or country. My point being, that if you meant they had problems scoring in their bad years, well I think you could say that about every team that ever existed. If any team lost a lot of games in a season, they typically didn't score a lot.

For this year, they will probably need to make up a lot of scoring lost from last year, because it isn't likely all the young forwards will play as consistently on defense, and the defensive Corp probably took a step down as well with loss of 3 upperclassmen. So if they don't have a good season, it will probably be a combo of reduced scoring and less solid D.

My opinion is that more often than not...when the Gophers stumble, its due to their inability to put the puck in the net. Beyond that, I have no need to discuss that further. Perhaps we do differ on the most likely causes of a tough season though. I think its significantly more likely to come from a lack of scoring than a porous defense.

The Gophers have more seniors on defense than last year and fewer freshmen. Likewise, Wilcox will be a sophomore. So our defense should be adequate (assuming forwards can avoid costly turnovers). On the flipside, we lost 43% of our goals. Wisconsin lost only 19% (with 3 of 4 the remaining B1G schools losing even less). The Gophers are reloading upfront, but that needs to result in goals.

Just an opinion.

 

[Snively65]

Um, Maine ended the bid at the Excel, Minnesota ended it the following year in Buffalo.

ETA: I did have to go look it up to make sure I was remembering correctly.

Oops, thanks; I attended both, and got them confused. After UNH got knocked out by Maine in 2002, I was tempted to scalp my NC ticket and go catch a Prairie Home Companion show, but decided to see if Maine could win another instead. Pretty good Gopher team those two years.

 

[Koho]

Re: Ice Breaker Tournament: Clarkson vs. New Hampshire & Mercyhurst vs. Minnesota

My opinion is that more often than not...when the Gophers stumble, its due to their inability to put the puck in the net. Beyond that, I have no need to discuss that further. Perhaps we do differ on the most likely causes of a tough season though. I think its significantly more likely to come from a lack of scoring than a porous defense.

The Gophers have more seniors on defense than last year and fewer freshmen. Likewise, Wilcox will be a sophomore. So our defense should be adequate (assuming forwards can avoid costly turnovers). On the flipside, we lost 43% of our goals. Wisconsin lost only 19% (with 3 of 4 the remaining B1G schools losing even less). The Gophers are reloading upfront, but that needs to result in goals.

Just an opinion.

My last point was that Defense isn't just about the blue line players. Young guys often make defensive mistakes, that is why older, less talented teams often beat young offensively talented teams. Those young players have almost as much impact on the team D as on the Offense. But you are right in saying we've dragged it out enough....