"I won the FF Lottery" 2012 Edition

[pgb-ohio]

Re: "I won the FF Lottery" 2012 Edition

I think that three factors are at work:
1.) The disaster at FF, where the cheap discounted seats were much better than the riser seats and undercut the resale market for those who paid full price up front for tickets
2.) I think that they have found (or exceeded) the cap of ticket prices that they can charge to ensure that the lottery gets all the public tickets get sold. If you cant sell out in a traditional market like St. Paul, what chance do non-traditional markets have? Ideally, the tickets would be priced so that the number of lottery entries equals the number of seats available.
3.) the overall decline in the economy has caused people to re-evaluate if purchasing tickets 6+ months before an event is a good idea. Particularly since tickets are almost always available on the secondary market around face value.

That's a pretty good list.

In hindsight, the venues selected from 2005-2012 seem almost calculated to reduce demand downward, to more closely match the number of available seats. That isn't strictly true, of course. Milwaukee is a tournament hotbed, and demand there in 2006 was fairly solid. And who could have predicted that the Minnesota Gophers would be mired in a multi-season downturn when the 2011 FF was scheduled, thus dampening demand for that tournament? Nevertheless, if the NCAA has made a conscious decision to try to curb speculative purchases of Frozen Four ducats, they've done a decent job of it.

Another factor that can't be stressed enough is that Tampa requires air travel for most Frozen Four fans. In a normal year, a majority of Frozen Four fans have driven to the event. Some commute. Others drive hundreds of miles. Even those who attend annually tend to drive if at all possible. The last time air travel was required for a large percentage of the crowd was Anaheim, back in 1999. Did we party like it was 1999? Not exactly. Thousands of seats went unfilled. In fairness to SoCal based fans, the crowd did improve for the Championship game. But regardless of how you characterize it, we seem to be headed toward similar results in Tampa.

 

[COHockey]

Re: "I won the FF Lottery" 2012 Edition

I suspect that they go to the allotment for the host, participating schools, and other NCAA partners.

UAH season ticket holders got nothing this year. Only the participating schools and NCAA partners will get the good seats. When the FF was in Denver, I got offered seats through my season tickets at DU, sat center ice lower bowl. As a long time UAH season ticket holder I got offered the Ticketmaster presale ticket code. This is after the lottery. Best seats were in upper bowl corners. Because of the chaos this last year at UAH, I went through the lottery. Priority 4, section 330, row H, seats 1-4. Last year with priority 3 I got much better seats with section 109 row 6 (3 aisle seats). That being said, I am looking to upgrade.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: "I won the FF Lottery" 2012 Edition

UAH season ticket holders got nothing this year. Only the participating schools and NCAA partners will get the good seats...

Clearly the Participating Team tickets have been improving, primarily at our expense. As a general pattern, we've traded places. Priority tickets have moved behind the nets. The participants now sit in the sections on the endline --and toward the middle -- that we used to have. This began back in St. Louis; the trend has become clearer in the time since.

Still, I'm quite surprised that most of the Priority Seats for Tampa are behind the nets. I would have thought that the seating chart would have been more like DC. I had perhaps my best FF tickets there. (Lower Bowl, near the Blue Line) I've always believed that the lack of a sizable host school allotment was the reason for that dramatic one year improvement. I frankly expected similar results this year. Hearing that UAH "got nothing" makes the early returns from Tampa even more surprising.

Inevitably the Corporate Sponsors and other NCAA insiders are going to lock up some of the best seats in the house. It stands to reason that these groups will fill up the prime seats on one side of the lower bowl. We can bemoan that, and be justified in doing so. But there's no chance that it will change.

At the same time, I find it very hard to believe that NCAA Partners are holding all of the prime seats on both sides of the ice. If they weren't that numerous in DC, just who came out of the woodwork to claim a massive number of tickets in Tampa? If the non-public tickets couldn't sell out in St. Paul, how is it that the demand in Tampa is stronger, at least in a relative sense?

Without specific information to the contrary, I simply can't believe that NCAA Partner demand is up. Something else must be going on. Perhaps Tampa Bay Lighting Season Ticket Holders are getting prime seating. Or, maybe there's a seat license problem, like we had in 2004 in Boston. I have no idea how the arena in Tampa was financed. If anyone has information on this, please post. But if seat license holders control a block of prime seats, that bumps everyone down a notch or two.

Big Picture: Obviously Tampa is a non-traditional market, well outside of College Hockey's home territory. Such a site selection has both pros and cons. From the perspective of the Annual Attendees, the single biggest drawback is that some in our ranks can't attend. But historically the payoff has been that those of us able to make the trek receive better seat locations. It's becoming clear that this unwritten covenant has been breached. The Posters expressing disappointment in their seat assignments appear to be justified in their complaints.

Stay tuned.

 

[Scarlet]

Re: "I won the FF Lottery" 2012 Edition

Is this the earliest we've gotten notification about seat location?

 

[Steve_MN]

Re: "I won the FF Lottery" 2012 Edition

I got my e-mail the other day as well. Priority 6, 1 seat in Section 211 Row J. At first I was a little disappointed with this given how close my tickets were last year (about row 17 or so, lower deck, right behind the zamboni entrance). But looking at the NCAA site for the FF under "Venue Info" I see that the 200 level is the club level at the Forum, so my disappointment rapidly evaporated.

NC$$ links to the TicketMa$ter site for the seating chart:

http://www.ticketmaster.com/event/0D004752E62A77D2

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: "I won the FF Lottery" 2012 Edition

Is this the earliest we've gotten notification about seat location?

To the very best of my recollection, yes. And for that, Tampa is to be commended.

I haven't kept any notes on this exact question, but IIRC the most common arrangement has been you learn your location when the tickets arrive. In other words, 3-4 weeks in advance of the tournament. Again IIRC, we've occasionally received earlier notifications, but never this early.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: "I won the FF Lottery" 2012 Edition

I got my e-mail the other day as well. Priority 6, 1 seat in Section 211 Row J. At first I was a little disappointed with this given how close my tickets were last year (about row 17 or so, lower deck, right behind the zamboni entrance). But looking at the NCAA site for the FF under "Venue Info" I see that the 200 level is the club level at the Forum, so my disappointment rapidly evaporated.

NC$$ links to the TicketMa$ter site for the seating chart:

http://www.ticketmaster.com/event/0D004752E62A77D2

That's the classic "Scout's Choice" location: In the corner, and high enough to see the entire ice surface. Not everyone's taste, but it certainly has strong selling points. Further, Club Seating usually has an unexpected perk or two. Glad it worked out for you.

 

[Steve_MN]

Re: "I won the FF Lottery" 2012 Edition

That's the classic "Scout's Choice" location: In the corner, and high enough to see the entire ice surface. Not everyone's taste, but it certainly has strong selling points. Further, Club Seating usually has an unexpected perk or two. Glad it worked out for you.

Yeah, any complaints I had disappeared when I saw it was club level. My WCHA Final 5 tickets every year are in the same kind of spot, one section closer to the center and front row, just fantastic seats. These aren't QUITE as good, but unless there's a spring impaling me from the seat or something crazy like that, I'll be quite happy with these.

 

[shuyge]

Re: "I won the FF Lottery" 2012 Edition

Disappointed in our seat selection as well after club level seats in St. Paul. Priority 5 got us 4 seats in section 317, row K -- basically back up in nosebleed seats. Not sure we'll be participating in the lottery much longer...

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: "I won the FF Lottery" 2012 Edition

My assignment: Section 126, Row K
Priority Level: 14 (of 15)

These seats are strikingly similar to my locations in St. Louis and Denver, and also comparable to St. Paul 2011.

 

[CLS]

Re: "I won the FF Lottery" 2012 Edition

Priority 7
214 Row E

Quite happy. In St. Paul we were in the 300 level.

If the NCAA intentionally or not selected locations that discourage speculative seat buyers, that's fine with me. My version of the ideal situation for the FF would be that everyone who really wants to go can get a ticket at face price, and everybody who buys a ticket intends to go to the game. I think the less that ideal attendance at some of the FFs was due to two factors: (1) speculators and (2) NCAA sponsors, AD's and bigwigs who don't attend. We can't do much about the NCAA sponsors but it looks like there are fewer speculators.

Paying ahead of time doesn't bother me that much, especially if it results in better seats. At today's interest rates, if I took the $185 or whatever it was and put it in a savings account, next April it'd be worth about $185.10.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: "I won the FF Lottery" 2012 Edition

If the NCAA intentionally or not selected locations that discourage speculative seat buyers, that's fine with me. My version of the ideal situation for the FF would be that everyone who really wants to go can get a ticket at face price, and everybody who buys a ticket intends to go to the game...

Agree completely. I would only add that some buyers purchase tickets in good faith, only to have plans change due to circumstances beyond their control. Conversely, some find themselves available at the last minute. Others become last minute buyers because their favorite team pulls a surprising upset. For each of these groups I would hope that there would be a viable secondary market, with tickets changing hands at approximately face value.

To the extent there's been an effort to bring supply and demand more in line with one another, I can applaud that. But if this works to destroy the secondary market altogether -- intentionally or otherwise -- I have problems with it on several levels.

By charging $195 per package, for an air-travel-required sunbelt location, the NCAA may have taken things a step too far. Obviously this will remain an open question until the conclusion of the tournament next April. My suspicion is that everyone who goes will have a great time, but that the number of empty seats may cause us to regret the location. Of course the evidence is very preliminary at this point. Hope I'm wrong about the empty seats; we shall see.

I think the less that ideal attendance at some of the FFs was due to two factors: (1) speculators and (2) NCAA sponsors, AD's and bigwigs who don't attend. We can't do much about the NCAA sponsors but it looks like there are fewer speculators.

Agreed.

Paying ahead of time doesn't bother me that much, especially if it results in better seats. At today's interest rates, if I took the $185 or whatever it was and put it in a savings account, next April it'd be worth about $185.10.

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry, but you're right on the money.

 

[RaceBoarder]

Re: "I won the FF Lottery" 2012 Edition

I'm curious as to what exactly was going on with the "Speculators" that drew the attention of the NCAA? Secondary ticket markets are here to stay unfortunately, and I am surprised an organization is willing to step in and try and stop it... Hell, about 10-15% of Chicago Blackhawk "Season Tickets" are owned by strictly for profit brokers and individuals... With situations like this in more than a few places in pro sports, I don't get why the NCAA would want to make an effort to control what people do with the tickets after they are initially sold...

It sucks for fans... No denying that... I'm just curious what sparked the NCAAs interest in the situation...

 

[HockeyMan2000]

Re: "I won the FF Lottery" 2012 Edition

Also hugely disappointed. 110, Row L. Non-traditional venue that's guaranteed not to be a hot ticket and this is the best they can do for long-time FF attendees?

As a priority 15 (or whatever the highest number is) this is the last year we're going to keep "funding" the NCAA for the right to buy tickets to the FF. Between the rising costs and the questionable venues, I'll be happy to stay home and watch it in HD. If there's something nearby in the northeast that catches our fancy we'll try our luck on the secondary market. The whole way the NCAA has been running the FF for years now is just baffling, but that's a whole other matter.

 

[satyking]

Re: "I won the FF Lottery" 2012 Edition

The NCAA cares about one thing....MONEY....they really killed the host cities biggest revenue source when they started to play the first two games back to back instead of the separate ticket for each allowing fans to leave and go to a local restaurant for dinner, now they have sold the dinner rights to vendors inside the rink and we get more fast food.....in Milwaukee, on the friday, the good folks at Wisconsin would put on a free concert at the rink and it was great....no more the NCAA now runs the low attendance skills competition and charges a fee for the tickets, next they will become part of the FF4 package......if they could find a way to scalp the tix they would

 

[scoreboard]

Disappointed in our seat selection as well after club level seats in St. Paul. Priority 5 got us 4 seats in section 317, row K -- basically back up in nosebleed seats. Not sure we'll be participating in the lottery much longer...

Disappointed as well. Priority 6 and got section 316 row G. Last year had club level.

 

[FiveHole12]

Re: "I won the FF Lottery" 2012 Edition

Priority 8 (IIRC), Section 211, Row C, 4 seats.
I'm happy. I love corner seats.

 

[Siouxfaninseattle]

Re: "I won the FF Lottery" 2012 Edition

Agree completely. I would only add that some buyers purchase tickets in good faith, only to have plans change due to circumstances beyond their control. Conversely, some find themselves available at the last minute. Others become last minute buyers because their favorite team pulls a surprising upset. For each of these groups I would hope that there would be a viable secondary market, with tickets changing hands at approximately face value.

As you know, this concept worked well for me for the Denver FF. I have bought tickets through the lottery for this year's FF and next year's FF, and the seat locations are what I would expect for a low priority. It doesn't matter to me where it is held - it will be a plane ride. I just made a decision that I want to go to the FF and I want to make sure I have tickets rather than worry about buying them from a scalper. A buddy bought tickets from a scalper in Denver and it turned out they were stolen, and he paid $500 for them. I do wonder what the NC$$ is thinking about Tampa though - it looks like there will be a lot of empty seats.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: "I won the FF Lottery" 2012 Edition

As you know, this concept worked well for me for the Denver FF.

I do make a sincere attempt to practice what I preach. Hope you made it back to Buckhorn Exchange for a meal; it was definitely worth it. Still have my shirt from that establishment, as a matter of fact.

I have bought tickets through the lottery for this year's FF and next year's FF, and the seat locations are what I would expect for a low priority. It doesn't matter to me where it is held - it will be a plane ride.

Though you relocated outside of college hockey's core area, you stuck with us. Full credit and respect for your dedication! Also, I certainly realize you're not alone. My comment about most of the crowd needing to drive is an aggregate level observation. At the individual level there are clearly many exceptions to the general pattern.

I just made a decision that I want to go to the FF and I want to make sure I have tickets rather than worry about buying them from a scalper. A buddy bought tickets from a scalper in Denver and it turned out they were stolen, and he paid $500 for them.

As per the above, dealing with USCHO regulars greatly reduces the risk of fraud. But yes, buying directly from the NCAA eliminates that risk altogether, and that is a selling point for the lottery.

I do wonder what the NC$$ is thinking about Tampa though - it looks like there will be a lot of empty seats.

It's very early, and much more info is needed. But the early guess is that those within commuting distance to Tampa didn't participate in the lottery. Maybe those interested have been taken care of by non-lottery allotments. Or, maybe interest will grow as it gets closer to the event. Or, maybe there won't be much of a local contingent at all.

The one thing that seems clear is that the General Lottery didn't sell out. Based on the information in our ticket threads, that's the first time this has happened under the current system. (2002 forward) Providence 2000 sold out far in advance, and IIRC Albany 2001 did as well. So the last time we were in this situation was in Anaheim in 1999. Of course there's still several months for Tampa to sell tickets, and we should all hope for the best. But the parallel with Anaheim is starting to feel discouragingly real.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: "I won the FF Lottery" 2012 Edition

The one thing that seems clear is that the General Lottery didn't sell out. Based on the information in our ticket threads, that's the first time this has happened under the current system. (2002 forward) Providence 2000 sold out far in advance, and IIRC Albany 2001 did as well. So the last time we were in this situation was in Anaheim in 1999. Of course there's still several months for Tampa to sell tickets, and we should all hope for the best. But the parallel with Anaheim is starting to feel discouragingly real.

Discouraging perhaps, but hardly surprising. Hockey, and even more so college hockey, is a hard sell outside its core area. I don't know what publicity the FF has been receiving in Tampa or 12 years ago in Anaheim, but if DC is typical of non-traditional markets, it's virtually none. The only quasi-local place that I remember reading any notice that a lottery was being held was on a DC hockey blog. Even at the time of the DC FF, the local media hardly picked up on the FF although there were some extenuating circumstances, namely that it was held during the Cherry Blossom Festival and none of the FF teams were household names.