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How College Hockey Inc. sells our game vs Major Junior...
- Thread starter Puck Swami
- Start date
Runninwiththedogs
Tech Hot
Re: How College Hockey Inc. sells our game vs Major Junior...
Ha. Bemidji and AF leaving the CHA killed college hockey expansion. (No, not women's sports, as many would like to believe.)
Brett Hextall is "from" California but he's not your typical California player.
Ha. Bemidji and AF leaving the CHA killed college hockey expansion. (No, not women's sports, as many would like to believe.)
Brett Hextall is "from" California but he's not your typical California player.
Re: How College Hockey Inc. sells our game vs Major Junior...
Not really. Lack of a conference is a hurdle, but one that could be worked around. Title IX rules absolutely can't be worked around. There's a lot of schools very open to the idea of adding a men's team since it can be a revenue-generating sport, but no one can afford the financial black hole of a women's team necessary to comply with the law.
Whatever you want to believe, that's the truth of the situation.
Not really. Lack of a conference is a hurdle, but one that could be worked around. Title IX rules absolutely can't be worked around. There's a lot of schools very open to the idea of adding a men's team since it can be a revenue-generating sport, but no one can afford the financial black hole of a women's team necessary to comply with the law.
Whatever you want to believe, that's the truth of the situation.
SCSU Euro
New member
Re: How College Hockey Inc. sells our game vs Major Junior...
Shouldn't they be using Frattin or Oshie instead?
I knew Vlassopolous was, but when I quick checked DU and CC's 09-10 rosters from last year on USCHO, and all I did was just glance for "Calif.", Andreas wasn't on there anymore.
Why not Powerpoint a college photo of Toews to drive home the point to the kids that college is REALLY fun?
Shouldn't they be using Frattin or Oshie instead?
I knew Vlassopolous was, but when I quick checked DU and CC's 09-10 rosters from last year on USCHO, and all I did was just glance for "Calif.", Andreas wasn't on there anymore.
Re: How College Hockey Inc. sells our game vs Major Junior...
Because getting busted isn't fun?
Shouldn't they be using Frattin or Oshie instead?
Because getting busted isn't fun?
moose97
New member
Re: How College Hockey Inc. sells our game vs Major Junior...
Good lord, learn some history before blaming BSU for killing the CHA:
2007 - Air Force leaves for AHA
2008 - Wayne State dropps hockey, leaving the conference with 4 teams
Jan 2009 - AHA accepts Niagara and RMU (down to two!)
July 2009 - WCHA accepts BSU
Amazing how the last thing on that list is the first your blame for the death of "college hockey expansion" (yeah, like BSU was gonna try to play in a two team conference
) The writing was on the wall for a while, but AFA leaving was the blow that couldn't be overcome.
Good lord, learn some history before blaming BSU for killing the CHA:
2007 - Air Force leaves for AHA
2008 - Wayne State dropps hockey, leaving the conference with 4 teams
Jan 2009 - AHA accepts Niagara and RMU (down to two!)
July 2009 - WCHA accepts BSU
Amazing how the last thing on that list is the first your blame for the death of "college hockey expansion" (yeah, like BSU was gonna try to play in a two team conference
) The writing was on the wall for a while, but AFA leaving was the blow that couldn't be overcome.
Re: How College Hockey Inc. sells our game vs Major Junior...
You forgot:
2000 - Army leaves for the MAAC
2004 - Findlay "dropps" hockey, leaving the conference with 5 teams before Robert Morris came and saved the day
You forgot:
2000 - Army leaves for the MAAC
2004 - Findlay "dropps" hockey, leaving the conference with 5 teams before Robert Morris came and saved the day
moose97
New member
Re: How College Hockey Inc. sells our game vs Major Junior...
I didn't forget - Army never felt like a CHA team, as the one year they were a member, they only played half a schedule anyway (two games vs. each team - and they only won one of those 10 games - plus I just looked - USCHO doesn't even have them as a CHA team for '99-'00 ).
Then, the CHA was only theoretically down to 5 teams when Findlay dropped hockey, since RMU was added the next year. Like I noted, once AFA left, and the conference was actually down to 5 did it seem like the end was near and more so after Wayne left). Before 2007, it seemed plauseable that someone would add hockey (hey, RMU had done so just a few years before) and "save" the CHA...
I didn't forget - Army never felt like a CHA team, as the one year they were a member, they only played half a schedule anyway (two games vs. each team - and they only won one of those 10 games - plus I just looked - USCHO doesn't even have them as a CHA team for '99-'00
). Then, the CHA was only theoretically down to 5 teams when Findlay dropped hockey, since RMU was added the next year. Like I noted, once AFA left, and the conference was actually down to 5 did it seem like the end was near and more so after Wayne left). Before 2007, it seemed plauseable that someone would add hockey (hey, RMU had done so just a few years before) and "save" the CHA...
Re: How College Hockey Inc. sells our game vs Major Junior...
And USCHO is never wrong? Fact is, CHA was once a 7-team league. That's a lot stronger position to be in than the way they lived most of their existence.
RMU was destined for AHA from the get-go before Findlay dropped. CHA lucked out in that they were willing to change their plans on short notice and keep them afloat for a few years. The Findlay saga was a harbinger and certainly part of the league's demise.
It was never plausible that a team would up and form a team to come to the CHA's aid. We hear time and again of so and so school thinking about starting up a program, and that's when it ends. Do you know why? It's because ice hockey is cost-prohibitive. You have to be willing to sink a lot of money into start-up. For every Robert Morris out there, there are a million Kennesaw State, Missouri-St. Louis, Lindenwood, Liberty... (shall I continue?)
I didn't forget - Army never felt like a CHA team, as the one year they were a member, they only played half a schedule anyway (two games vs. each team - and they only won one of those 10 games - plus I just looked - USCHO doesn't even have them as a CHA team for '99-'00
And USCHO is never wrong? Fact is, CHA was once a 7-team league. That's a lot stronger position to be in than the way they lived most of their existence.
RMU was destined for AHA from the get-go before Findlay dropped. CHA lucked out in that they were willing to change their plans on short notice and keep them afloat for a few years. The Findlay saga was a harbinger and certainly part of the league's demise.
It was never plausible that a team would up and form a team to come to the CHA's aid. We hear time and again of so and so school thinking about starting up a program, and that's when it ends. Do you know why? It's because ice hockey is cost-prohibitive. You have to be willing to sink a lot of money into start-up. For every Robert Morris out there, there are a million Kennesaw State, Missouri-St. Louis, Lindenwood, Liberty... (shall I continue?)
moose97
New member
Re: How College Hockey Inc. sells our game vs Major Junior...
Fact is, the closest the CHA was to a 7 team circuit was '99-'00 when they had 6 members and Wayne as an associate member. There never were 7 full members of the conference...
Listen, you don't have to lecture me on the history of the CHA. I've lived it. It may be true (in hindsight) that for every RMU, there's a lot more Kennesaw's, Lindenwood's, etc., but that didn't mean, at the time, that those schools couldn't have started hockey. Once AFA left, there was zero chance that they would join the CHA. At a 6 team conference? There was at least a home for someone that wanted to join. A 4 or 5 team league on life-support? Not a chance. Like I said - it never happened (vor various reasons) at the schools you mentioned (and at others), but that doens't mean that it never will happen again...
Fact is, the closest the CHA was to a 7 team circuit was '99-'00 when they had 6 members and Wayne as an associate member. There never were 7 full members of the conference...
Listen, you don't have to lecture me on the history of the CHA. I've lived it. It may be true (in hindsight) that for every RMU, there's a lot more Kennesaw's, Lindenwood's, etc., but that didn't mean, at the time, that those schools couldn't have started hockey. Once AFA left, there was zero chance that they would join the CHA. At a 6 team conference? There was at least a home for someone that wanted to join. A 4 or 5 team league on life-support? Not a chance. Like I said - it never happened (vor various reasons) at the schools you mentioned (and at others), but that doens't mean that it never will happen again...
Re: How College Hockey Inc. sells our game vs Major Junior...
Oh, now who's nitpicking?
Calm down, calm down. No one's lecturing. Just setting the facts out there.
Yes, exactly. Because they'd be right in the same situation they were before - a tenuous collection of 6 geographically assorted schools and only one defection or desertion away from being right back where they started.
I doubt it will happen with existing conferences unless some super conference comes along and guts one or more.
Oh, now who's nitpicking?
Calm down, calm down. No one's lecturing. Just setting the facts out there.
Yes, exactly. Because they'd be right in the same situation they were before - a tenuous collection of 6 geographically assorted schools and only one defection or desertion away from being right back where they started.
I doubt it will happen with existing conferences unless some super conference comes along and guts one or more.
Re: How College Hockey Inc. sells our game vs Major Junior...
He was injured very early - maybe in the first game of the season. He was on the roster for the first half of the year, but I believe he graduated in December and moved on. His career is basically over due to recurring knee injuries, I suspect. It's tough - he was expected to be a top line forward last year, and losing him early was a tough blow to CC. Most people seem to blame last year's late season collapse on Owens, but if you look at the timing I believe it was due more to Stephen Schultz's injury. Losing Dre before the year started put them in a tenuous place in terms of forward depth, and they couldn't handle a late hit like losing Schultz.
He was injured very early - maybe in the first game of the season. He was on the roster for the first half of the year, but I believe he graduated in December and moved on. His career is basically over due to recurring knee injuries, I suspect. It's tough - he was expected to be a top line forward last year, and losing him early was a tough blow to CC. Most people seem to blame last year's late season collapse on Owens, but if you look at the timing I believe it was due more to Stephen Schultz's injury. Losing Dre before the year started put them in a tenuous place in terms of forward depth, and they couldn't handle a late hit like losing Schultz.
Puck Swami
New member
Re: How College Hockey Inc. sells our game vs Major Junior...
I agree. Dre was the sort of player that we never really got to see play at the level he was probably capable of due to the injuries. And Shultz was one of the more talented forwards on the CC roster. I also think CC really missed having a true puck moving/scoring defensemen in the Salcido/Hillen/L. Sweatt mold. Prosser and Guentzel were adequate in this role last year, but the other guys I mentioned had that ability to be game changers.
I agree. Dre was the sort of player that we never really got to see play at the level he was probably capable of due to the injuries. And Shultz was one of the more talented forwards on the CC roster. I also think CC really missed having a true puck moving/scoring defensemen in the Salcido/Hillen/L. Sweatt mold. Prosser and Guentzel were adequate in this role last year, but the other guys I mentioned had that ability to be game changers.
Runninwiththedogs
Tech Hot
Re: How College Hockey Inc. sells our game vs Major Junior...
I love how your timeline implies that Buttmidji was totally committed to the CHA and was forced out when Niagara and RMU left. Please. Your school's officials have been licking the sphincters of WCHA ADs, coaches and administrators for years trying to get in. Don't pretend that Suckmidji was somehow abandoned by the other league members and that they didn't have one skate out the door.
I am aware of all this history, but a school ditching a conference is different from a school dropping a sport, so I didn't include Wayne State. But, I can amend my statement: AFA, Buttmidji, and Wayne State effed college hockey.
It was probably hard to skate with all those letters on the back of his jersey weighing him down.
Good lord, learn some history before blaming BSU for killing the CHA:
2007 - Air Force leaves for AHA
2008 - Wayne State dropps hockey, leaving the conference with 4 teams
Jan 2009 - AHA accepts Niagara and RMU (down to two!)
July 2009 - WCHA accepts BSU
Amazing how the last thing on that list is the first your blame for the death of "college hockey expansion" (yeah, like BSU was gonna try to play in a two team conference
I love how your timeline implies that Buttmidji was totally committed to the CHA and was forced out when Niagara and RMU left. Please. Your school's officials have been licking the sphincters of WCHA ADs, coaches and administrators for years trying to get in. Don't pretend that Suckmidji was somehow abandoned by the other league members and that they didn't have one skate out the door.
I am aware of all this history, but a school ditching a conference is different from a school dropping a sport, so I didn't include Wayne State. But, I can amend my statement: AFA, Buttmidji, and Wayne State effed college hockey.
It was probably hard to skate with all those letters on the back of his jersey weighing him down.
moose97
New member
Re: How College Hockey Inc. sells our game vs Major Junior...
Takes two to tango, and the WCHA wouldn't even listen to BSU's app until mid January, 2009 - barely two weeks before AHA officially accepted RMU and NU. I'm guessing RMU and Niagara had to have applied to AHA sometime before 1/15/09, no? Besides, once AFA and Wayne went away, the writing was on the wall, and it was pretty well accepted that RMU and NU would apply to AHA, BSU would try to get into the WCHA and UAH would try to get into the CCHA...
Now, sure, BSU had wanted into the WCHA since basically they first thought of going D-I, but the WCHA had to tell them they had a seat at the table, didn't they? Everyone knew that BSU wanted out, but everyone also knew about the WCHA moratorim on expansion making BSU a pretty solid member of the CHA.
Takes two to tango, and the WCHA wouldn't even listen to BSU's app until mid January, 2009 - barely two weeks before AHA officially accepted RMU and NU. I'm guessing RMU and Niagara had to have applied to AHA sometime before 1/15/09, no? Besides, once AFA and Wayne went away, the writing was on the wall, and it was pretty well accepted that RMU and NU would apply to AHA, BSU would try to get into the WCHA and UAH would try to get into the CCHA...
Now, sure, BSU had wanted into the WCHA since basically they first thought of going D-I, but the WCHA had to tell them they had a seat at the table, didn't they? Everyone knew that BSU wanted out, but everyone also knew about the WCHA moratorim on expansion making BSU a pretty solid member of the CHA.
Last edited:
SCSU Euro
New member
Re: How College Hockey Inc. sells our game vs Major Junior...
That could very well be the most brilliant thing you've ever said.
That could very well be the most brilliant thing you've ever said.
Runninwiththedogs
Tech Hot
Re: How College Hockey Inc. sells our game vs Major Junior...
Please. Most days I've said six brilliant things before breakfast.
Please. Most days I've said six brilliant things before breakfast.
Re: How College Hockey Inc. sells our game vs Major Junior...
No, all of those schools acted in their best financial interest, or what they assumed was their best interest.
So have many other institutions who have decided not to add ice hockey to their list of sports.
It's pretty naive to think that the actions of those few schools amounts to anything when it comes to the shape of Division I college hockey. The CHA was not a viable long-term solution to any problem except "we schools would like an automatic bid to the NCAAs like everyone else", and certainly not a viable long-term solution to convince universities to start up hockey teams. The CHA certainly did its level best to persuade teams to get into college hockey, but there were external factors that were just impossible to control for, the most notable being "nobody wants to start a varsity hockey team at the Division I level because it's too ****ed expensive" (with one exception in the last ten years).
Bemidji didn't do **** to college hockey, other than try their best not to have to fold so that the small number of participants didn't get smaller.
No, all of those schools acted in their best financial interest, or what they assumed was their best interest.
So have many other institutions who have decided not to add ice hockey to their list of sports.
It's pretty naive to think that the actions of those few schools amounts to anything when it comes to the shape of Division I college hockey. The CHA was not a viable long-term solution to any problem except "we schools would like an automatic bid to the NCAAs like everyone else", and certainly not a viable long-term solution to convince universities to start up hockey teams. The CHA certainly did its level best to persuade teams to get into college hockey, but there were external factors that were just impossible to control for, the most notable being "nobody wants to start a varsity hockey team at the Division I level because it's too ****ed expensive" (with one exception in the last ten years).
Bemidji didn't do **** to college hockey, other than try their best not to have to fold so that the small number of participants didn't get smaller.
Re: How College Hockey Inc. sells our game vs Major Junior...
The AFA simply wanted to be in the same conference as Army. You cannot fault them for wanting that. If Navy where ever able to add a D-1 Program I'm sure that AFA and Army would force Atlantic Hockey into accepting them. The service academies should always play together.
The AFA simply wanted to be in the same conference as Army. You cannot fault them for wanting that. If Navy where ever able to add a D-1 Program I'm sure that AFA and Army would force Atlantic Hockey into accepting them. The service academies should always play together.