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Hockey East 2020-2021

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I'm a UNH guy, and I'm not about to defend him. Heck, I've been leading the parade against him. Metcalf has been invisible from the outset, and he isn't getting any better now that this so-called "season" has started. I'm going to start calling him "Commissioner Press Release" if he doesn't show his face at some point. Pandemic or not, you don't lead by issuing press releases, and not fielding questions. He's acting like any well-paid desk jockey functionary would. Except he's the Hockey East commissioner now. You took the job, Tosser - now get out there and do it.

The only thing I'll say in his semi-defense, though, is that he's working for what is likely the biggest collection of spineless jellyfish known to mankind, i.e. the collective presidents and/or AD's of the Hockey East schools. We can only imagine the tenor of the discussions going on behind the scenes with those so-called leaders. "Yeah, let's do this!!" "Sounds great, but you go first." "Uh, actually, I'd rather YOU go first." "I'm not going first, but I'm right behind you." Etc. ad nauseum.

Before we give Joey Buttons any credit for good timing, let's remember, he didn't have a say in the matter, as his contract was publicly non-renewed at some point last season.

This "season" is already a giant cluster, and 90% of it is on the schools and their "leaders". Pathetic.

I couldn’t agree more on the schools themselves, whoever that entails. The players deserve a lot of the blame right now too. Perhaps I’m wrong but I get the impression a lot of them have been careless with the expected outcome.

None of that excuses Metcalf going awol though. If he doesn’t want to do the job he should step aside and let someone else do it.
 
I couldn't agree more on the schools themselves, whoever that entails. The players deserve a lot of the blame right now too. Perhaps I'm wrong but I get the impression a lot of them have been careless with the expected outcome.

I put a grand total of 0% of the blame on the players. I understand what you're saying Drew, but I just happen to think the kids who "stray" (or don't, and are just unlucky - and frankly, who are we to make that determination?) are providing HE, the AD's and their schools the baseline amount of "justification" to chronically keep kicking the can of the '20/'21 season down the road. Just another excuse for the spineless jellyfish in charge to "play it safe" when there aren't going to be any fans anyway, and the players themselves who might get it will all fully recover in short order.
 
I put a grand total of 0% of the blame on the players. I understand what you're saying Drew, but I just happen to think the kids who "stray" (or don't, and are just unlucky - and frankly, who are we to make that determination?) are providing HE, the AD's and their schools the baseline amount of "justification" to chronically keep kicking the can of the '20/'21 season down the road. Just another excuse for the spineless jellyfish in charge to "play it safe" when there aren't going to be any fans anyway, and the players themselves who might get it will all fully recover in short order.


Yep, very likely they "recover" Chuck. Of course, they very well could end up with life-altering myocarditis or lung scarring, among other things. Oh...and that includes kids who were either mildly or asymptomatic as well. But hey, as long as they're not actually dying, nothing else should matter. Funny, you've never responded to those specifics points in any of the previous 5-6times I've raised it with you. And, I don't expect you to respond in any way this time either.
 
I remember going to a funeral back in high school because somebody's otherwise healthy father died of the flu.

I would also say I haven't seen anybody post the rates for damaging secondary effects.. them how do those secondaries compare to that with other virus strains of things such as the flu.

I also haven't seen anybody tell me how playing a game is any better or worse than current practices of life. Now granted a fair bit has been pared back lately and I'm not going to pretend its without reason.

I want more solid reason than sanctimony because most of what I see is sanctimony.

Now I think mostly the right thing is going on right now.. also if the players want to play they have to minimize their exposures and risks. In that its their call.

Frankly if they cant play hockey i don't understand how you can justify dorms being open.. maybe you don't justify that.... at least that'd be logically consistent.. but if the dorms are open then i don't see how you can't logically play hockey.
 
Annnnd BU goes down with a positive test- shut for 2 weeks

Passing past the first part of the post because there was a whole lot of stuff past sanctimony that was posted along with evidence- inconvenient if you want to watch something to entertain yourself but easily googled.

Stats for the LT effects are still rolling in. No way to tell how long things will last and how they will evolve. So far evidence has showed many body systems can be affected. No way to tell if the person was predisposed or if it is totally related to viral sequelae. We haven't' been at it long enough. Post viral things are notoriously finicky. Probably the thing this is most like is folks with post-polio or post Lyme who have systemic damage that expresses in very idiosyncratic ways.

The Dorms are actually easier to deal with than the off campus folks. It still suboptimal and a good petri dish but you have some control over occupancy and how things are sanitized. The issue is many of the players are in apartments- with multiple other people, not all of whom are on the team. The variables are many and if the other roommates are not in the testing protocol they are wildcards. If one of them tests positive then down goes the house of cards and you have no idea how long the positive has been brewing or how many people were exposed.
 
Frankly if they cant play hockey i don't understand how you can justify dorms being open.. maybe you don't justify that.... at least that'd be logically consistent.. but if the dorms are open then i don't see how you can't logically play hockey.

All about priorities. One could easily justify that by saying that the need of keeping many kids in school is more important than a select few playing a game and the dorms need to be open if the many are going to attend school.
 
Things have gotten so bad so fast. I'm assuming plans for the season were in the works for a few months, when things weren't this horrific. If we were still in a place like where we were in, say, late August/early September and stayed that way, I'd feel more comfortable about pushing along. But, trying to do this when we are beyond crisis mode seems really ridiculous.
 
If they consulted with health experts they knew a 2nd wave could happen. And if they agreed to play a season thinking they wouldn't have any COVID cases that is a tough standard. I know college football and hockey are different but these football games have gone on despite certain guys testing positive. Trevor Lawrence missed ND game and the show went on. I will now wait to be scolded for enjoying that ND-Clemson game.
 
All about priorities. One could easily justify that by saying that the need of keeping many kids in school is more important than a select few playing a game and the dorms need to be open if the many are going to attend school.

What's interesting to me is the experts i have heard think in person learning has actually gone very well. Heard an expert from Brown talking about it the other day. More important than hockey obviously but it is possible to do things in person if you're diligent etc
 
All about priorities. One could easily justify that by saying that the need of keeping many kids in school is more important than a select few playing a game and the dorms need to be open if the many are going to attend school.

point is that if the exposure is similar then why not do the event. That's my thinking. Does playing hockey raise or gratuitously raise infection rates.

Also, les, these are things we can quantify. We should be quantifying them.
 
point is that if the exposure is similar then why not do the event. That's my thinking. Does playing hockey raise or gratuitously raise infection rates.

Also, les, these are things we can quantify. We should be quantifying them.

We are but you can't rush data. There are a lot of variables. Data needs to be sifted and controlled for other things. Also this is not that old. Some of the sequelae develop over time. You can't extrapolate with so little time passed. Early on there were not enough people in the cohort to decide.

Curious question about does hockey raise infection rates. They don't have a data set for that either. The NHL was in a very strict bubble. There are multiple clusters around hockey. Some were traced to the non-players but I believe Vt has a few that seem to be related to players that were at a tournament, caught it and then went home and created a string of infections. (Family in VT has someone who ended up quarantining d/t to one of these events and their school ended up with a cluster).

Problem with the public awareness of the collected data is people are working very hard to not reveal whether it is for optics or HIPPA I am not sure. Initially it was motivated by trying to project the image of things were going as normal as they could be. By now that is obviously silly- anyone who is even casually following knows you can't shake a stick without being around it. Example- PC revealed their latest outbreak in a news conference but they have had 3. If you look there is no coverage or admission of the first 2.
 
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What's interesting to me is the experts i have heard think in person learning has actually gone very well. Heard an expert from Brown talking about it the other day. More important than hockey obviously but it is possible to do things in person if you're diligent etc

I’ve heard this too and not sure how true it is. I mean we’re up to 200k cases a day. It can’t all be rogue gatherings that are causing it.
 
Well didn't they fear this current big spike due to Thanksgiving travel?

The spike we have now is pre T-day numbers. The lag is between 7-14 days so what we are seeing now came before what will happen in relation to T-day. The spike for that should start right about now and then extend as we get the people who got exposed with travel and then those they expose when they came back. This is going to be pretty ugly because a lot of people thought a test was proof they were OK and could let down their guard.
 
Things have gotten so bad so fast. I'm assuming plans for the season were in the works for a few months, when things weren't this horrific. If we were still in a place like where we were in, say, late August/early September and stayed that way, I'd feel more comfortable about pushing along. But, trying to do this when we are beyond crisis mode seems really ridiculous.

It is ridiculous. The Emperor's New Clothes with a tRumpie twist. This season isn't going to happen in any meaningful way, and it shouldn't even be attempted, IMO.
 
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Yep, very likely they "recover" Chuck. Of course, they very well could end up with life-altering myocarditis or lung scarring, among other things. Oh...and that includes kids who were either mildly or asymptomatic as well. But hey, as long as they're not actually dying, nothing else should matter. Funny, you've never responded to those specifics points in any of the previous 5-6times I've raised it with you. And, I don't expect you to respond in any way this time either.

Has it occurred to you yet numbnuts that your speculative and baseless "pearls of wisdom" aren't worthy of my attention, or most of the other posters on here? They've seen through your BS (without any help from me), all by their lonesome. Funny how the schtick that plays to rave reviews in the echo chamber of the Faculty Lounge is falling on deaf ears here. Just like in real life. So, feel free to go back and tell your Thought Leader 80,000 it's still not safe outside the "bubble".

But in the meantime, do continue, it's entertaining to watch you flop around on here like this guy ...
 
Chuck...."numbnuts"??...really?? Boy, that one really hurts. :) But, as expected, you chose not to respond to the points I made about potential life-long issues with myocarditis and/or lung scarring. Because that really goes against the whole, "no one this age is dying or, even getting significantly ill" worldview. For you and all the others who think hockey (and sports in general) aren't that risky from an infection/spread standpoint, either among the actual players/coaches/officials, or the possible contribution to significant community spread, here's an extremely interesting article from the Washington Post. I strongly recommend giving it a read...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/12/04/hockey-covid-transmission-outbreaks/

Here's a few of the more salient parts...

"Massachusetts logged more than 100 youth hockey cases in a few weeks. In Maine, an asymptomatic referee exposed up to 400 people in two days. In Bellemore’s home state of New Hampshire, state officials shut down youth hockey for two weeks to get cases under control and mandated testing for all 20,000 players — a directive that resulted in long lines and other chaos at testing centers statewide."

"Ice hockey is an anomaly. Scientists are studying hockey-related outbreaks hoping to find clues about the ideal conditions in which the coronavirus thrives — and how to stop it. Experts speculate that ice rinks may trap the virus around head level in a rink that, by design, restricts airflow, temperature and humidity."

“We’re watching hockey very carefully because it’s the first major sport that’s been played indoors predominantly and also during the winter months,” said Ryan Demmer, an epidemiologist at the University of Minnesota’s School of Public Health. Demmer said the cases provide some of the first real-world evidence to support early theories about the importance of how people breathe, ventilation, and the social dimensions of transmission.

One critical way hockey differs from other contact team sports is how players do line changes — substitutions of groups of players — and are expected to sprint for nearly the whole time they are on the ice. Experts say it probably leads to heavier breathing, resulting in more particles being exhaled and inhaled.

Jose-Luis Jimenez, an air engineer at the University of Colorado, speculated that the spaces occupied by rinks keep the virus suspended, perhaps six to nine feet, just above the ice. Similar outbreaks have been documented in other chilly venues — meat processing factories and at a curling match earlier in the pandemic. “I suspect the air is stratified,” he said. “Much like in a cold winter night, you have these inversions where the cold air with the virus which is heavier stays closer to the ground. That gives players many more chances to breathe it in.”

David Rubin, director of the PolicyLab at the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, said the “disease reservoir was lower” related to children in the early fall, suggesting that sports played at that time — namely, soccer — weren’t contributing much to spread. “We saw very little transmission on the field of play,” he said. “In winter sports, you now add the indoor element. And I think there’s a fair amount of concern that hockey certainly has transmission around the game,” he said.

A PolicyLab blog post last month recommended that if youth sports leagues want to preserve any opportunity to keep playing, they need to enact mandates that strictly curtail all off-field interaction. Even then, “the potential for on-field spread may be too overwhelming to continue safely with team competition during periods of widespread community transmission, and may need to be sacrificed to preserve in-school learning options, at least until early spring or transmission rates decrease substantially.”
 
I'll highlight the numerous qualifiers contained in this post, and in the quoted excerpts. Qualifiers indicate the writer/author lacks certainty on what they're saying. There are over a dozen dotted throughout the content, as highlighted below. I'll let you all reach your own conclusions ...

Chuck...."numbnuts"??...really?? Boy, that one really hurts. :) But, as expected, you chose not to respond to the points I made about potential life-long issues with myocarditis and/or lung scarring. Because that really goes against the whole, "no one this age is dying or, even getting significantly ill" worldview. For you and all the others who think hockey (and sports in general) aren't that risky from an infection/spread standpoint, either among the actual players/coaches/officials, or the possible contribution to significant community spread, here's an extremely interesting article from the Washington Post. I strongly recommend giving it a read...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...ion-outbreaks/

Here's a few of the more salient parts...

"Massachusetts logged more than 100 youth hockey cases in a few weeks. In Maine, an asymptomatic referee exposed up to 400 people in two days. In Bellemore's home state of New Hampshire, state officials shut down youth hockey for two weeks to get cases under control and mandated testing for all 20,000 players - a directive that resulted in long lines and other chaos at testing centers statewide."

"Ice hockey is an anomaly. Scientists are studying hockey-related outbreaks hoping to find clues about the ideal conditions in which the coronavirus thrives - and how to stop it. Experts speculate that ice rinks may trap the virus around head level in a rink that, by design, restricts airflow, temperature and humidity."

"We're watching hockey very carefully because it's the first major sport that's been played indoors predominantly and also during the winter months" said Ryan Demmer, an epidemiologist at the University of Minnesota's School of Public Health. Demmer said the cases provide some of the first real-world evidence to support early theories about the importance of how people breathe, ventilation, and the social dimensions of transmission.

One critical way hockey differs from other contact team sports is how players do line changes - substitutions of groups of players - and are expected to sprint for nearly the whole time they are on the ice. Experts say it probably leads to heavier breathing, resulting in more particles being exhaled and inhaled.

Jose-Luis Jimenez, an air engineer at the University of Colorado, speculated that the spaces occupied by rinks keep the virus suspended, perhaps six to nine feet, just above the ice. Similar outbreaks have been documented in other chilly venues - meat processing factories and at a curling match earlier in the pandemic. "I suspect the air is stratified", he said. "Much like in a cold winter night, you have these inversions where the cold air with the virus which is heavier stays closer to the ground. That gives players many more chances to breathe it in".

David Rubin, director of the PolicyLab at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, said the "disease reservoir was lower" related to children in the early fall, suggesting that sports played at that time - namely, soccer - weren't contributing much to spread. "We saw very little transmission on the field of play", he said. "In winter sports, you now add the indoor element. And I think there's a fair amount of concern that hockey certainly has transmission around the game", he said.

A PolicyLab blog post last month recommended that if youth sports leagues want to preserve any opportunity to keep playing, they need to enact mandates that strictly curtail all off-field interaction. Even then, "the potential for on-field spread may be too overwhelming to continue safely with team competition during periods of widespread community transmission, and may need to be sacrificed to preserve in-school learning options, at least until early spring or transmission rates decrease substantially".

Also ... it's always fun when folks from halfway across the country try to tell us what happened in our own back yard (in my case, New Hampshire). Yes, as a precautionary measure, hockey was paused for two (2) weeks in mid-October, and has resumed for over a month since then. "Chaos" and "long lines" (oh, the horror!!) has given way to resumption with the testing requirement. Knowing many families and their kids involved in that process, I think "temporary inconvenience" is a better description of what they experienced, as opposed to the exaggerated "chaos" that feeds the alarmist narrative.

New Hampshire rinks reopen with added COVID-19 rules (concordmonitor.com)

Lastly, for what it's worth, here is the current data on all things COVID-19 in New Hampshire:

case-summary.pdf (nh.gov)

Some of the key NH data points:

* Total COVID deaths to date: 552
* Total deaths LTC settings: 447 (81%)
* Total deaths 80+ yrs. old: 363 (65.8%)
* Total deaths 70+ yrs. old: 490 (88.8%)

An interesting factoid pulled from that data which highlights just how deadly this can be for folks 80+ years old and in LTC settings is that with the 363 deaths at that age, there have "only" been 193 hospitalizations. Obviously, there are many of the LTC patients who are dying in situ which (to be fair, if not admittedly somewhat callous) is not too unexpected a result when the average length of LTC stay from admission to death is roughly 1.5-2.0 years. LTC is NOT intended to be a brief recuperative stay at Sandals or Club Med, let's be honest. Hospitalizations exceed deaths at all other age levels, increasingly so as the age level drops. Overall, the idea that COVID-19 would be problematic to LTC elderly and those with compromised immunity is pretty much what the expectation has always been from the outset.

Looking further down the chart, as you would expect, things tail off significantly afterwards:

* Total deaths 60-69 yrs. old: 43 (7.8%)
* Total deaths 40-59 yrs. old: 18 (3.3%)

* Total deaths 39 y.o. & under: 1 (0.2%)

FWIW I know from a family member working in the HC industry that the 20-something death was of a highly-compromised individual. This is not to downplay the death of a young person, but merely to point out the person was not a typical 20-something with a standard "healthy adult" profile. I think we all know that if healthy young people were dying from this at any level of frequency, it would be front-page news in every sense (and legitimately so). Again, for purposes of comparison, here is what the CDC says about the profile of the "Spanish Flu" pandemic (1918-1919) and how legitimately, terrifyingly different it is from what we're faced with today:

1918 Pandemic (H1N1 virus) | Pandemic Influenza (Flu) | CDC

"Mortality was high in people younger than 5 years old, 20-40 years old, and 65 years and older. The high mortality in healthy people, including those in the 20-40 year age group, was a unique feature of this pandemic."

Other real-world comparisons (to provide some sense of context) include this data:

147 - NH motor vehicle fatalities in 2018
3-5 - annual average of NH boating fatalities
2-3 - annual average of NH aviation fatalities

So ... there is speculation, and there are facts and data. I resist the former, and rely on the latter.

My apologies to everyone else for gumming up discussion of the latest needless postponements ...
 
Chuck...."numbnuts"??...really?? Boy, that one really hurts. :) But, as expected, you chose not to respond to the points I made about potential life-long issues with myocarditis and/or lung scarring. Because that really goes against the whole, "no one this age is dying or, even getting significantly ill" worldview. For you and all the others who think hockey (and sports in general) aren't that risky from an infection/spread standpoint, either among the actual players/coaches/officials, or the possible contribution to significant community spread, here's an extremely interesting article from the Washington Post. I strongly recommend giving it a read...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...ion-outbreaks/

Here's a few of the more salient parts...

"Massachusetts logged more than 100 youth hockey cases in a few weeks. In Maine, an asymptomatic referee exposed up to 400 people in two days. In Bellemore’s home state of New Hampshire, state officials shut down youth hockey for two weeks to get cases under control and mandated testing for all 20,000 players — a directive that resulted in long lines and other chaos at testing centers statewide."

"Ice hockey is an anomaly. Scientists are studying hockey-related outbreaks hoping to find clues about the ideal conditions in which the coronavirus thrives — and how to stop it. Experts speculate that ice rinks may trap the virus around head level in a rink that, by design, restricts airflow, temperature and humidity."

“We’re watching hockey very carefully because it’s the first major sport that’s been played indoors predominantly and also during the winter months,” said Ryan Demmer, an epidemiologist at the University of Minnesota’s School of Public Health. Demmer said the cases provide some of the first real-world evidence to support early theories about the importance of how people breathe, ventilation, and the social dimensions of transmission.

One critical way hockey differs from other contact team sports is how players do line changes — substitutions of groups of players — and are expected to sprint for nearly the whole time they are on the ice. Experts say it probably leads to heavier breathing, resulting in more particles being exhaled and inhaled.

Jose-Luis Jimenez, an air engineer at the University of Colorado, speculated that the spaces occupied by rinks keep the virus suspended, perhaps six to nine feet, just above the ice. Similar outbreaks have been documented in other chilly venues — meat processing factories and at a curling match earlier in the pandemic. “I suspect the air is stratified,” he said. “Much like in a cold winter night, you have these inversions where the cold air with the virus which is heavier stays closer to the ground. That gives players many more chances to breathe it in.”

David Rubin, director of the PolicyLab at the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, said the “disease reservoir was lower” related to children in the early fall, suggesting that sports played at that time — namely, soccer — weren’t contributing much to spread. “We saw very little transmission on the field of play,” he said. “In winter sports, you now add the indoor element. And I think there’s a fair amount of concern that hockey certainly has transmission around the game,” he said.

A PolicyLab blog post last month recommended that if youth sports leagues want to preserve any opportunity to keep playing, they need to enact mandates that strictly curtail all off-field interaction. Even then, “the potential for on-field spread may be too overwhelming to continue safely with team competition during periods of widespread community transmission, and may need to be sacrificed to preserve in-school learning options, at least until early spring or transmission rates decrease substantially.”

Those pesky facts. They are so inconvenient! Don't you understand people need to forget folks are dying? They are tired of playing Pandemic. It has been 8 long months. They need to be distracted and entertained!! The serfs should be willing to die so people don't have to deal with reality. [insert picture of red-lined sarcasm meter]
 
"Massachusetts logged more than 100 youth hockey cases in a few weeks. In Maine, an asymptomatic referee exposed up to 400 people in two days. In Bellemore’s home state of New Hampshire, state officials shut down youth hockey for two weeks to get cases under control and mandated testing for all 20,000 players — a directive that resulted in long lines and other chaos at testing centers statewide."

An asymptomatic referee "exposed" 400 people. LMAO.

Yeah, he exposed them to nothing because he was not infected with Covid but merely tested positive with an overly sensitive PCR test. This entire charade depends on pretending healthy people are a threat.
 
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