Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
If you needed to win one game last year, who would you pick? Muse or Hutton. Case closed.
If you needed to win one game last year, who would you pick? Muse or Hutton. Case closed.
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Hockey East 2010-2011
- Thread starter BCeagle
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jcarter7669
Registered User
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
Hutton in net for BC and Muse in net for UML? Actually doesn't matter, Hutton had a better GAA then Muse (2.04 v. 2.4) and a better save% ( .928 v. .910 ) and again didn't have the luxury of BC playing in front of him. So yeah I agree case closed. Hutton!
Hutton in net for BC and Muse in net for UML? Actually doesn't matter, Hutton had a better GAA then Muse (2.04 v. 2.4) and a better save% ( .928 v. .910 ) and again didn't have the luxury of BC playing in front of him. So yeah I agree case closed. Hutton!
Nick Papagiorgio
Holding court
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
4 freshmen defensemen? You know it's funny, I could have sworn this defense sucked last year after Maine scored 6 on BC and Yale scored 7. 2 weeks later they are better defensively than the Red Wings because they gave up 1 goal combined in the Frozen Four.
4 freshmen defensemen? You know it's funny, I could have sworn this defense sucked last year after Maine scored 6 on BC and Yale scored 7. 2 weeks later they are better defensively than the Red Wings because they gave up 1 goal combined in the Frozen Four.
jcarter7669
Registered User
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
I would say that the UML D was top notch. But, the BC offense was second to none. It makes it tough to score when you are playing defensive hockey for the entire game. BC was +54 compared to UML +16. What does that mean? It means BC was on the offense more then the defense ( and before you go jumping on me, I realize that there are a thousand other factors that can affect +/- ) and this is backed up by the fact that Muse and Milner and their Freshman D-Corp faced less shots then UML and their senior laden class.
All in all, I'm not trying to start in with this. As I said, Milner and Muse are a top-notch tandem. But IMO Hutton and Hamilton were a better tandem this year. The results in terms of winning were not as good but the stats were better and W-L is a measure of the overall team not the goaltenders.
UML has a .919% 2.33GAA
BC had a .906% 2.45 GAA.
Over 39+ games I think those are pretty solid numbers to based a comparison.
I stand by my opinion that H&H were a better tandem last year then M&M.
I would say that the UML D was top notch. But, the BC offense was second to none. It makes it tough to score when you are playing defensive hockey for the entire game. BC was +54 compared to UML +16. What does that mean? It means BC was on the offense more then the defense ( and before you go jumping on me, I realize that there are a thousand other factors that can affect +/- ) and this is backed up by the fact that Muse and Milner and their Freshman D-Corp faced less shots then UML and their senior laden class.
All in all, I'm not trying to start in with this. As I said, Milner and Muse are a top-notch tandem. But IMO Hutton and Hamilton were a better tandem this year. The results in terms of winning were not as good but the stats were better and W-L is a measure of the overall team not the goaltenders.
UML has a .919% 2.33GAA
BC had a .906% 2.45 GAA.
Over 39+ games I think those are pretty solid numbers to based a comparison.
I stand by my opinion that H&H were a better tandem last year then M&M.
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
Muse allowed one goal vs. Miami and Wisconsin playing behind four freshman defensemen. Fool.
Yup, big games don't mater. Stick to those stats. Muse has never won a big game in his career and Hutton has won several.
I don't care who is playing in front of him, beating the teams he has in the Frozen Four and having the postseason record he does is remarkable. Hutton. LOL.
Muse allowed one goal vs. Miami and Wisconsin playing behind four freshman defensemen. Fool.
Yup, big games don't mater. Stick to those stats. Muse has never won a big game in his career and Hutton has won several.
I don't care who is playing in front of him, beating the teams he has in the Frozen Four and having the postseason record he does is remarkable. Hutton. LOL.
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walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
Don't be ridiculous, obviously Muse is the man but it matters who plays in front of him. BC is great front to back, top to bottom and Muse benefits from that.
Don't be ridiculous, obviously Muse is the man but it matters who plays in front of him. BC is great front to back, top to bottom and Muse benefits from that.
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
I would again point out Muse's stats this year in the postseason with freshmen playing in front of him, especially in Detroit. I'm not saying its moot who plays in front of him, but it's not like he's playing behind the defense, say, Wisconsin had last year.
I would again point out Muse's stats this year in the postseason with freshmen playing in front of him, especially in Detroit. I'm not saying its moot who plays in front of him, but it's not like he's playing behind the defense, say, Wisconsin had last year.
jcarter7669
Registered User
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
Clearly we cant compare post season because...well UML never made it. And yes sticking to the stats seems the best route since it is an objective measure and takes into account the entire season as opposed to two games at the end of the year.
Muse allowed one goal vs. Miami and Wisconsin playing behind four freshman defensemen. Fool.
Yup, big games don't mater. Stick to those stats. Muse has never won a big game in his career and Hutton has won several.
Clearly we cant compare post season because...well UML never made it. And yes sticking to the stats seems the best route since it is an objective measure and takes into account the entire season as opposed to two games at the end of the year.
jcarter7669
Registered User
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
Neither was Hutton, who still managed a better save %age and GAA.
Neither was Hutton, who still managed a better save %age and GAA.
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
Merely basing on stats is asinine. I can't believe you are honestly using Hutton and Muse in the same sentence. The last time we saw Hutton, he was choking vs. Maine in Orono. Every goalie will have a bad game, but the best goalies rise to the ocassion in the big games. The biggest game Hutton played (I think) was the 2009 HE Final and he lost (albeit it wasn't his fault).
If you are so into stats, compare Muse and Hutton in March.
Merely basing on stats is asinine. I can't believe you are honestly using Hutton and Muse in the same sentence. The last time we saw Hutton, he was choking vs. Maine in Orono. Every goalie will have a bad game, but the best goalies rise to the ocassion in the big games. The biggest game Hutton played (I think) was the 2009 HE Final and he lost (albeit it wasn't his fault).
If you are so into stats, compare Muse and Hutton in March.
walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
Paul Kariya was a freshman
, BCs D was better than Lowells, freshman or not. Maybe not during the season but York gets his team ready for the NCAAs, he could care less about regular season other than getting ready for the tourney. He had them ready
Paul Kariya was a freshman
, BCs D was better than Lowells, freshman or not. Maybe not during the season but York gets his team ready for the NCAAs, he could care less about regular season other than getting ready for the tourney. He had them readyjcarter7669
Registered User
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
That would be a valid comparison if we were comparing the better playoff goalie. But we aren't we are talking about the best tandem. And over 40 games H&H outplayed M&M despite playing for a weaker team.
Do you have an argument that isn't based on Muses post-season success? Because that doesn't really work either...from March on, Muse had a GAA of 3.14, compared to Hutton's GAA of 2.
Take the chip off your shoulder for a minute and listen. Muse is an excellent goalie that has zero problem in the regular or post season. He has put up good numbers. Hutton has put up better numbers, its that simple. If you can't concede the stats would support that, then we can just agree to disagree.
That would be a valid comparison if we were comparing the better playoff goalie. But we aren't we are talking about the best tandem. And over 40 games H&H outplayed M&M despite playing for a weaker team.
Do you have an argument that isn't based on Muses post-season success? Because that doesn't really work either...from March on, Muse had a GAA of 3.14, compared to Hutton's GAA of 2.
Take the chip off your shoulder for a minute and listen. Muse is an excellent goalie that has zero problem in the regular or post season. He has put up good numbers. Hutton has put up better numbers, its that simple. If you can't concede the stats would support that, then we can just agree to disagree.
Nick Papagiorgio
Holding court
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
Hmmmm.... someone from Vermont is not going to like this theory.
The stats support that Hutton had better stats than Muse. That is the only thing the stats support. You gotta go with the eyeball test when someone says to you "who is better"... you can make a claim and try to back it up with stats but all that proves is that you either don't know the game well enough to decide who is better or haven't seen the players enough to feel comfortable giving an eyeball test, in which case you're better off saying "I haven't seen both of them enough to judge".
Hmmmm.... someone from Vermont is not going to like this theory.
The stats support that Hutton had better stats than Muse. That is the only thing the stats support. You gotta go with the eyeball test when someone says to you "who is better"... you can make a claim and try to back it up with stats but all that proves is that you either don't know the game well enough to decide who is better or haven't seen the players enough to feel comfortable giving an eyeball test, in which case you're better off saying "I haven't seen both of them enough to judge".
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
As good as the BC frosh were, if Muse had Schaus, Dehner and Goers instead of Samuelsson, Dumuolin and Alber, my guess is his stats would have been better. Also dont forget that Muse was recovering from offseason hip surgery, too.
Stats are not the end all be all when it comes to comparisons, any sports fan knows that.
As good as the BC frosh were, if Muse had Schaus, Dehner and Goers instead of Samuelsson, Dumuolin and Alber, my guess is his stats would have been better. Also dont forget that Muse was recovering from offseason hip surgery, too.
Stats are not the end all be all when it comes to comparisons, any sports fan knows that.
jcarter7669
Registered User
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
The problem with the eyeball test is that it accounts for personal bias. When considering the best goalie tandem...slasher for example puts a HIGH premium on post season record. To me that's one aspect but that also takes into account the entire team, as does to an extent GAA. Personally save% is a good indication to me....simply how many times does a tender stop the puck.
Statistics don't tell the whole story, but the eyeball test is subjective and not really a great indicator either.
Post season success is great, but lets face it, Hutton never got the chance and it wasn't really his fault. UML scored 4 goals in the entire 3 game series and amazingly Hutton actually kept them in it...
And besides, if there was one single measure that everyone agreed upon what would be the point of this forum.
The problem with the eyeball test is that it accounts for personal bias. When considering the best goalie tandem...slasher for example puts a HIGH premium on post season record. To me that's one aspect but that also takes into account the entire team, as does to an extent GAA. Personally save% is a good indication to me....simply how many times does a tender stop the puck.
Statistics don't tell the whole story, but the eyeball test is subjective and not really a great indicator either.
Post season success is great, but lets face it, Hutton never got the chance and it wasn't really his fault. UML scored 4 goals in the entire 3 game series and amazingly Hutton actually kept them in it...
And besides, if there was one single measure that everyone agreed upon what would be the point of this forum.
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
So if UVM were in the national title game and for some reason you had the choice to pick either Muse or Hutton, you'd pick Hutton?
So if UVM were in the national title game and for some reason you had the choice to pick either Muse or Hutton, you'd pick Hutton?
jcarter7669
Registered User
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
And if Hutton had the BC offense in front of him and the extra 1.4 gpg support he would have been playing in the post season.
And in reality, BC faced less shots on goal even though they played 3 extra games then did UML. That UML d gave up more shots then did the frosh D? Considering the role defenseman play, I would argue the frosh were doing just fine limiting shots, you know for that 10 min that the offense wasn't pummeling the other tender...
And if Hutton had the BC offense in front of him and the extra 1.4 gpg support he would have been playing in the post season.
And in reality, BC faced less shots on goal even though they played 3 extra games then did UML. That UML d gave up more shots then did the frosh D? Considering the role defenseman play, I would argue the frosh were doing just fine limiting shots, you know for that 10 min that the offense wasn't pummeling the other tender...
True Blue Fan
USAF
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
Based on the arguements presented so far, the edge in goaltending last year went to Hutton IMO. Stats aside, BC had a better defense, even though they were younger, had a much better offense, which carried the play for the majority of the year. Which led to less pressure on the defense and Muse on a game by game basis.
Based on the arguements presented so far, the edge in goaltending last year went to Hutton IMO. Stats aside, BC had a better defense, even though they were younger, had a much better offense, which carried the play for the majority of the year. Which led to less pressure on the defense and Muse on a game by game basis.
jcarter7669
Registered User
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
If UVM made it to the NC game I'd go with Madore...the goalie that got them there.
Listen, the original comment was UML's tandem was better then BC's last year. If you want to make this about Muse is better then Hutton go right ahead.
If I was putting a team together for a season I would backstop it with Hutton. If I was playing a single game on the big stage, then Muse and his experience would be the smart pick. Either way, neither hypothetical has much to do with the original comment, so I am going to leave it at that.
If UVM made it to the NC game I'd go with Madore...the goalie that got them there.
Listen, the original comment was UML's tandem was better then BC's last year. If you want to make this about Muse is better then Hutton go right ahead.
If I was putting a team together for a season I would backstop it with Hutton. If I was playing a single game on the big stage, then Muse and his experience would be the smart pick. Either way, neither hypothetical has much to do with the original comment, so I am going to leave it at that.
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