Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

[LynahFan]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

To the shock of absolutely no one [who can do math], insurance companies are discontinuing to offer some types of policies to cut costs.

Gee, Mr. Obama, remember how you told us that we had to have the individual mandate to buy insurance in order to balance out the extra cost of dependent care until age 26, no denials for pre-existing conditions, and no lifetime caps? Perhaps you should have listened to your own words. Insurance companies are facing 4 years of extra costs from the goodies that went into effect this week. Goodies that won't [begin to be] be paid for until 2014 when the individual mandate goes into effect. Hmmm - goodies now, paid for later. Where have I heard of this scheme before?

The more I learn about this law, the LESS I like it.

 

[bronconick]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

No denials on preexisting conditions for *children*

How *awful* for those, poor, downtrodden, insurance folks.

The adult preexisting condition change doesn't occur until 2014.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

EVERYONE in the world knows if you have something severely wrong you better get to the US for the best possible treatment.

Everyone in the US knows if you don't have healthcare and need some antibiotics to clear up your kids ear ache you better have $300-$400.

Basically, health care in two sentences, cutting through the BS. Very nice.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

No denials on preexisting conditions for *children*

How *awful* for those, poor, downtrodden, insurance folks.

The adult preexisting condition change doesn't occur until 2014.

Before: denial of coverage for children with pre-existing conditions.

Now: denial of coverage for all children.

Yeah, I guess your way is better.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Before: denial of coverage for children with pre-existing conditions.

Now: denial of coverage for all children.

Yeah, I guess your way is better.

This type of argument goes so wrong so quickly, I am honestly surprised you used it.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

health care is done. Some Democrats are estimating 15-20 of them won't vote for the bill. it won't pass.

if you'd like stock tips from me feel free to ask. I also do lottery numbers.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

There is no winning in the fight against insurance companies. We all lose, and they get tons of money. Nice Planet.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

if you'd like stock tips from me feel free to ask. I also do lottery numbers.

Happens to us all.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

There is no winning in the fight against insurance companies. We all lose, and they <strike>get tons of money</strike> will be profitable on par with every other corporation in the US. Nice Planet.

FYP.

If health insurance were as wildly profitable of a market segment as you seem to imagine, it would soak up every bit of available capital and there would be dozens of new companies entering the market. Nobody would be buying stock in GE or Lockheed or P&G making 5% if health care stocks were returning obscene profits. Conversely, if health insurance profits were drastically below nationwide average returns, nobody would be investing in them at all and they would all be going out of business.

The only way the health care market stays robust and stable is if those companies are returning profits in line with the rest of corporate America. That is a rock-bottom truth that must be respected. Any additional costs imposed on insurance companies WILL result in some combination of:

1) costs cut elsewhere
2) rising prices (premiums)
3) companies going out of business

Pick your poison, but trying to avoid all three is like arguing against gravity.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Pick your poison, but trying to avoid all three is like arguing against gravity.

Bad example.

More here. I know two people with the math and physics to understand this (possibly three), but I find it fascinating conceptually.

 

[joecct]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

The annual Federal Employees rates came out recently. My premiums went up 12.4%. And then there is this....

OPM will soon launch a new Health Claims Data Warehouse which will become a useful tool for analyzing health services data from the FEHB plans. The warehouse will allow OPM to better understand the health of federal employees, as well as the cost and quality of care they receive. The warehouse will give OPM the ability to manage the program so that employees and tax-payers get the best value.

 

[Farce Poobah]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

To the shock of absolutely no one [who can do math], insurance companies are discontinuing to offer some types of policies to cut costs.

Gee, Mr. Obama, remember how you told us that we had to have the individual mandate to buy insurance in order to balance out the extra cost of dependent care until age 26, no denials for pre-existing conditions, and no lifetime caps? Perhaps you should have listened to your own words. Insurance companies are facing 4 years of extra costs from the goodies that went into effect this week. Goodies that won't [begin to be] be paid for until 2014 when the individual mandate goes into effect. Hmmm - goodies now, paid for later. Where have I heard of this scheme before?

The more I learn about this law, the LESS I like it.

The law provides strong incentives for families NOT to buy coverage until after they or their children get sick. Look for the ranks of voluntarily uninsured to rise. Why waste money when there's other bills to pay? Basic physics.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

The law provides strong incentives for families NOT to buy coverage until after they or their children get sick. Look for the ranks of voluntarily uninsured to rise. Why waste money when there's other bills to pay? Basic <strike>physics</strike> short-sighted economics.

FYP

Because laws can change at any time. Especially with Republicans bound to take a Congressional majority sooner rather than later, primarily on the platform of trying to undo the last 2 years. If they regain any sort of power by 2012, they'll pass a law to protect our precious and benevolent health insurance companies so fast it'll make your head spin.

The real question should be: what sort of dip**** parents would choose to play dice with their kids like that?

 

[walrus]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

If they regain any sort of power by 2012, they'll pass a law to protect our precious and benevolent health insurance companies so fast it'll make your head spin.t?

Like the Dems didn't do that already, are health ins companies going to lose money under the new system?

 

[Patman]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Like the Dems didn't do that already, are health ins companies going to lose money under the new system?

I have to imagine the current plan is to leave this failuregunk in place until about 2020 when most of the principles are no longer in power and then pick up the universal health care mantra once they define that corporatist health insurance is a failure... because we've forbidden all other options.

Its kinda like illegal immigration... they'll let it get so bad until we accept the solutions they want.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

And here we go: SCOTUS agrees to rule.

Whichever side loses should get a nice election bump from an energized base.

 

[Rover]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

And here we go: SCOTUS agrees to rule.

Whichever side loses should get a nice election bump from an energized base.

I appreciate the set up to declare victory if/when the SCOTUS rules the measure Constitutional! Well done.

If Anthony Kennedy rules that the govt has the right to take your house by emminent domain, I can't see him ruling against the govt making you get health insurance, but we'll see.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

I appreciate the set up to declare victory if/when the SCOTUS rules the measure Constitutional! Well done.

If Anthony Kennedy rules that the govt has the right to take your house by emminent domain, I can't see him ruling against the govt making you get health insurance, but we'll see.

If I had to bet, I'd predict:

1. SCOTUS rules that it is constitutional.
2. Europe's financial troubles cause enough echoes that the US economy does not recover quickly enough to save Obama
3. 1+2 = energized GOP party which rallies around "Not Obama" for the election; they retain the House and win the Senate (~2 seat margin) and POTUS
4. GOP immediately misinterprets their good fortune to have stood for an election in the midst of the financial mess as a mandate to undo health care reform through legislation and executive orders
5. We're right back in the mess where we started, status quo circa 2008

 

[Rover]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

One thing I don't want to see is a "we'll decide this after it takes effect" ruling. If your scenario plays out, so be it. I feel the Dems have done what they can on this issue, and if the voters decide they don't want healthcare, they'll get what they vote for. Simply put if a repeal happens there will not be another effort for several generations. As this doesn't affect me any, I'll be happy to sit back and enjoy the show.

It reminds me of two recent instances of laws being passed and dumbfounded voters not figuring out that this is who they chose to elect. In both the Wisconsin anti-union effort, and the Alabama illegal immigration laws, these are the reps that the voters chose to run the govt. Recalls are certainly a constitutional remedy, but really if these people were paying attention it shouldn't have even come to that. Likewise it doesn't take too much effort to see that if you have an agricultural based economy, and you kick all the farm workers out the state, there might be some problems afterwards. Again, I don't live in either place, but the theme is the same. You get what you vote for. Pretty funny if you ask me.

 

[joecct]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

If I had to bet, I'd predict:

1. SCOTUS rules that it is constitutional.
2. Europe's financial troubles cause enough echoes that the US economy does not recover quickly enough to save Obama
3. 1+2 = energized GOP party which rallies around "Not Obama" for the election; they retain the House and win the Senate (~2 seat margin) and POTUS
4. GOP immediately misinterprets their good fortune to have stood for an election in the midst of the financial mess as a mandate to undo health care reform through legislation and executive orders
5. We're right back in the mess where we started, status quo circa 2008

As to #1 -- I hope not. Beware the doctrine of the camel's nose under the tent flap.
As to #4 -- Pass law #1 to halt implementation for 12 months if declared consitutional. In that 12 months go over each section of the law (i.e. read it this time before you vote) and keep what is good, modify what can be fixed, and toss what was stupid. Then pass something that may work. In the meantime, look @ France's health care system. Think about tort reform.
As to #5 -- if so, we get a Dem congress in 2014. If the GOP is that stupid to repeat the mistakes of Bush43 congresses, then they deserve it.