Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

[Handyman]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Les

I work for Uncle Sam and have a pretty good health plan (FEHBA). Lots of primary care choices, no referrals necessary, no probs with the ER, and with a drug and vision plan. If I switch plans (and there are a ton for federales), pre existing conditions are covered.

Cost - $300 every 2 weeks for the family plan (me, Mrs. and 1 son) of which Uncle Sam picks up 2/3. When I retire in a few months, I pick up the entire cost.

IF the idiots on the hill wanted to cover people properly, give everyone access to FEHBA.

If you do move, you need to go to a good hockey state.

It was when that plan fell flat (give everyone the same insurance as federal employees) that I got off the Health Care Reform bandwagon. Since they had no shot to get true UHC in and they were willing to sell the Public Option down the river faster than Ray Lewis during a murder trial this should have been the Dems wet dream! The citizens would have loved it and I doubt the GOP would have had any chance of blocking and the Blue Dogs would have fallen in line. I mean seriously this was a SLAM FRIGGIN DUNK so leave it to the Dems to go Norv Turner on the bit.

Just backs up my theory that they never wanted to have any real reform anyways...they just wanted to look busy and then when it fails blame it on the GOP. Working out real well for them so far...

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Barney Frank declares Health Care Reform dead (but with a few more words):

I have two reactions to the election in Massachusetts. One, I am disappointed. Two, I feel strongly that the Democratic majority in congress must respect the process and make no effort to bypass the electoral results. If Martha Coakley had won, I believe we could have worked out a reasonable compromise between the House and Senate health care bills. But since Scott Brown has won and the Republicans now have 41 votes in the senate, that approach is no longer appropriate. I am hopeful that some Republican senators will be willing to discuss a revised version of health care reform. Because I do not think that the country would be well served by the health care status quo. But our respect for democratic procedures must rule out any effort to pass a health care bill as if the Massachusetts election had not happened. Going forward, I hope there will be a serious effort to change the senate rule which means that 59 are not enough to pass major legislation, but those are the rules by which the health care bill was considered, and it would be wrong to change them in the middle of this process.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

I gotta say it does seem weird that a 59/41 majority isnt enough to pass something in the Senate...

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

I gotta say it does seem weird that a 59/41 majority isnt enough to pass something in the Senate...

Only because it's tough for primary and secondary school teachers have a tough time explaining the nuances of democracy and republic to hyperactive kids, so they just say that we have a democracy and that majority rules. You hear that enough and you start to believe it, but 1) we don't, and 2) it doesn't.

You should know that Gridlock is the only thing that can save us from ourselves, that and term limits

Unfortunately, a purge of Republicans in 2008 followed by a purge of Democrats in 2010 is about as close as we'll get to term limits. I have hope that the 112th Congress and a President facing a tough re-election fight will get the message and feel pressure to actually get some stuff done. But maybe I'm just delusional...

 

[leswp1]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

I gotta say it does seem weird that a 59/41 majority isnt enough to pass something in the Senate...

The Dems are independent and have never toed the party line-(unlike the GOP who baa like sheep and follow the leader). I could never understand (and posted somewhere in here) why anyone would thing the Dems could act in concert. I would have liked mob hysteria to work and get something done.

The thing no one seems to remember is that every one in Washington is not there to represent for the good of the country but just their constituency.

 

[MinnFan]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Which part of the link details as much?

I meant someone else's post a few days ago. It was referring to this study

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Unfortunately, a purge of Republicans in 2008 followed by a purge of Democrats in 2010 is about as close as we'll get to term limits. I have hope that the 112th Congress and a President facing a tough re-election fight will get the message and feel pressure to actually get some stuff done. But maybe I'm just delusional...

Depends on what you mean by done. Bush II got a few things done while he was in office and just about every single thing he did get done has caused disaster.

NCLB hasn't done what it was supposed to do.
The Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have not come close to yielding the results that most Americans would want or expect, and have been a huge drain on the treasury.
The prescription drug benefit has given coverage to seniors but ultimately has only been a redistribution of wealth program.
The Tax Cuts ultimately provided an economy that has ended this decade with a 0% net gain in average wealth across the country according to numerous reports.

So, what do you want done? Seems if they do nothing for 7 years we'd all end up further ahead than the last 9.

 

[ScottM]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Barney Frank declares Health Care Reform dead (but with a few more words):

Barney can probably add Obama's financial services "reform" to the pyre too.

 

[Rover]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Barney Frank is coming off (insert joke here) as a whiner. If they still believe in this, they should get it done. How hard is it to find out what Collins or Snowe wants (tax breaks for cows, posthumous pardon for Walshy's cheating, etc ) and act accordingly? Or, go the reconciliation route - something Reid should never have taken off the table.

Up to Obama to figure out the plan now and not delegate it to Congress. If he can't do that, nobody to blame but themselves.

 

[MattS]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Up to Obama to figure out the plan now and not delegate it to Congress. If he can't do that, nobody to blame but themselves.

He should have been doing this all along. You know that funny thing the President is suppose to do....lead!

 

[Handyman]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Only because it's tough for primary and secondary school teachers have a tough time explaining the nuances of democracy and republic to hyperactive kids, so they just say that we have a democracy and that majority rules. You hear that enough and you start to believe it, but 1) we don't, and 2) it doesn't.

I had a teacher in HS that told us we didn't live in a Democracy and while I laughed at first the more he broke it down the more obvious it became. The continued existence of the Electoral College is enough to prove we don't live in a Democracy.

And les is right...if the GOP had this majority (59-41) and the President they would have nothing holding them back it would be full steam ahead. The Democrats couldn't even do that when they had the supermajority! The Democrats act spineless, and worse they have no real leadership to follow so they run around like chickens with their heads cut off. They let others frame the debate and then bend over backwards to pressure. They had the Supermajority until yesterday...what have they done with it?

 

[ScottM]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

He should have been doing this all along. You know that funny thing the President is suppose to do....lead!

I have to agree. Given Congress' historic lower approval ratings, I think he squandered an opportunity to drive his agenda on a number of fronts early on. The more he "delegated" his agenda to Congress, the odds increased that he would not really achieve anything. Along the way, he burned alot of political capital, and goodwill with the electorate.

 

[blockski]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

An open letter to House Democrats.

Well worth a read:

http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-treatment/dear-nervous-house-democrat

Now you have a choice.

The temptation will be to drop health care, change the subject, and hope for the best. After all, the voters clearly don't like what they're hearing and seeing out of Washington. And health care is all they've been hearing and seeing for the last few months. The polls suggest more people oppose the plan than support it. And the right wing is having a field day with it.

But is it the product the voters don't like--or the process? Truth be told, most people don't even understand the basics of what this bill would do. (Truth be told, neither do a few or your colleagues.) But in the one state that has implemented a similar set of reforms--Massachusetts, it so happens--voters support the idea by large margins. That's why Brown went out of his way to endorse the Massachusetts system, even as he criticized its analogue on the national level.

True, shelving the bill would end the dithering. But it would also solidify the public perceptions that are destroying you now. Listen to the complaints: You're feckless. You don't follow through on your promises. You don't deliver progress. Giving up on the idea that's been your primary preoccupation for the last year--and, by the way, a primary focus of the last presidential campaign--is not exactly a way to challenge these conclusions.

Cont'd

But you can pass health care reform very quickly if you want. All you have to do is vote for the Senate bill, as written. Yes, I'm aware of its flaws. But it's also far better than nothing. (Heck, if you're a centrist, you may think the Senate bill is even better than the original House one.)

Once the main bill is passed, you can always revisit it--perhaps right away, by passing a "patch" through the reconciliation process. If you're clever--and you are--you'll extract some sort of promise from the president and Senate leadership to make sure the patch gets enacted.

(Once that's done, well, maybe you can start building support for another important cause: Ending the filibuster and restoring majority rule to the Senate.)

I don't want to mislead you: You could pass the Senate bill, which you may really not like, and still lose reelection. But passing health care reform would seem, if anything, to improve your odds of political survival. And if it doesn't--if you're doomed to lose anyway--enacting health care reform would give you a meaningful accomplishment in your record.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Vote through the Senate Bill as is...hahahahahaahahaha!

They do that and they sign their own death warrant. If they put through a bill that did anything the president promised us they wouldn't be in this mess. They didn't, the people know they didn't, and everytime someone has challenged them they have bowed and taken a step back. But hey at least the unions got their little hand out...

Let it die, or their political careers will die with it. There is still time to do something meaningful...maybe it is time they did that instead of chasing unicorns and then trying to pass off glue as a substitute.

 

[leswp1]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

He should have been doing this all along. You know that funny thing the President is suppose to do....lead!

That would be like herding cats. I don't agree they are spineless. They are stubborn to the point of stupidity, have about 60 different visions and are independent from the party. They don't want to be lead and the 'leaders' like Pelosi and Reid are Buffoons. Who, if they have any brain cells, would follow them?

The reason the GOP gets stuff done when they have even a miniscule advantage is they don't think, they do what they are told.

I am not sure which has been more disastrous.

 

[Rover]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

That would be like herding cats. I don't agree they are spineless. They are stubborn to the point of stupidity, have about 60 different visions and are independent from the party. They don't want to be lead and the 'leaders' like Pelosi and Reid are Buffoons. Who, if they have any brain cells, would follow them?

The reason the GOP gets stuff done when they have even a miniscule advantage is they don't think, they do what they are told.

I am not sure which has been more disastrous.

I'll go along with the stubborn part. Its fine to fight the good fight but if the votes aren't there you go to plan B. Maybe that means settling for a little less than you want, but its better than status quo.

To that end, Reid is a far worse strategist than Pelosi. I believe she had her chamber pass the bill in Nov/Dec, and allowed several members to cover themselves with no votes in difficult districts. Reid on the other hand got rolled (along with Baucus) on a 4 month Finance Committee negotiation with people who were sending out fund raising letters at the same time noting that they were helping to kill health care reform. Then he stupidly took reconcilliation off the table, AND apparently didn't bother to find out if he had the necessarily votes for a public option before unveiling it. Not sure what (or if) he was thinking, but he'd better come up with something quick.

 

[Bill]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

The Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador knows where to go for health care:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5h0QC7bditrEb3wYz_6_b-gsGGDxA

 

[huskyfan]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

health care is done. Some Democrats are estimating 15-20 of them won't vote for the bill. it won't pass.

 

[sagard]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

They had the Supermajority until yesterday...what have they done with it?

1. They passed health care.
2. They got us out our wars.
3. They kicked their idiots out of their senate/house leadership positions.

 

[sagard]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

The Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador knows where to go for health care:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5h0QC7bditrEb3wYz_6_b-gsGGDxA

EVERYONE in the world knows if you have something severely wrong you better get to the US for the best possible treatment.

Everyone in the US knows if you don't have healthcare and need some antibiotics to clear up your kids ear ache you better have $300-$400.