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Re: He says he's not dead.
I would imagine the idea is to avoid that happening. And when we've deployed Prompt Global Strike, we'll have the ability to take out their bird before it launches.
I would imagine the idea is to avoid that happening. And when we've deployed Prompt Global Strike, we'll have the ability to take out their bird before it launches.
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Re: He says he's not dead.
I think the Chinese like things the way they are. I read something today that compared the region to a working class bar. And NK is China's wirey cousin, just released from prison, who's unpredictable and with a penchant for violence.
I think the Chinese like things the way they are. I read something today that compared the region to a working class bar. And NK is China's wirey cousin, just released from prison, who's unpredictable and with a penchant for violence.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: He says he's not dead.
Thanks. Candidly, I don't have any idea how that rep stuff works.
Thanks. Candidly, I don't have any idea how that rep stuff works.
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Re: He says he's not dead.
Meanwhile no surprise: Jimmy Carter sends "condolences" to Kim Jong Un. Priceless.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog...esident-carter-sends-condolences-kim-jong-un/
Meanwhile no surprise: Jimmy Carter sends "condolences" to Kim Jong Un. Priceless.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog...esident-carter-sends-condolences-kim-jong-un/
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FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: He says he's not dead.
I was thinking he should be in a nursing home by now. With stuff like this, better make it the dementia ward.
I was thinking he should be in a nursing home by now. With stuff like this, better make it the dementia ward.
Re: He says he's not dead.
Either that or he goes to the funeral, eats some of their "special" Kimchee, and his head explodes.
Either that or he goes to the funeral, eats some of their "special" Kimchee, and his head explodes.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: He says he's not dead.
Carter was one of the guys who helped negotiate the "agreed framework" with North Korea, at the request of then-president Clinton. Part of the diplomatic game is "honest men willing to lie for their country." Within the context of diplomacy you do things like send condolence letters or send the VP off for funerals or negotiate silly cultural exchange programs with people who you wouldn't piss on if they were on fire normally.
The right creaming their jeans over this is funny but all it shows they don't understand that diplomacy with enemies is part of the game. Jaw, jaw is always better than war, war.
Carter was one of the guys who helped negotiate the "agreed framework" with North Korea, at the request of then-president Clinton. Part of the diplomatic game is "honest men willing to lie for their country." Within the context of diplomacy you do things like send condolence letters or send the VP off for funerals or negotiate silly cultural exchange programs with people who you wouldn't piss on if they were on fire normally.
The right creaming their jeans over this is funny but all it shows they don't understand that diplomacy with enemies is part of the game. Jaw, jaw is always better than war, war.
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FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: He says he's not dead.
That's nice, except that Carter hasn't been internationally significant for a decade. So really, his condolences are a mere fart in the wind. It smacks of trying to stay in the public eye by doing something to get a headline which will give a third of Americans a stroke.
That's nice, except that Carter hasn't been internationally significant for a decade. So really, his condolences are a mere fart in the wind. It smacks of trying to stay in the public eye by doing something to get a headline which will give a third of Americans a stroke.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: He says he's not dead.
Of course, a quarter of Americans is going to have a stroke every time they hear Carter's name, so I wouldn't give a crap about their response if I were he. Put the shoe on the other foot: Cheney could say the sky was blue and a quarter of us would only hear his name and have a coughing fit, so I'm sure he doesn't calibrate his statements based on his enemies.
I'm not sure I agree with you (he seems to be on a lot of foundations that do international work) but you have a good point that he hasn't (AFAIK) been affiliated with US diplomacy for a long time. And I also really liked the imagery of your last sentence.
Of course, a quarter of Americans is going to have a stroke every time they hear Carter's name, so I wouldn't give a crap about their response if I were he. Put the shoe on the other foot: Cheney could say the sky was blue and a quarter of us would only hear his name and have a coughing fit, so I'm sure he doesn't calibrate his statements based on his enemies.
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Re: He says he's not dead.
Same song, 3245th verse. Only you , in your clever way, would defend this anti-Semitic, anti-American imbecile. There would be no war with NK. They'd just disappear. That is the ones Carter's buddy Kim Jong Il hadn't starved to death. Kim's contribution to "Carter diplomacy" was to pull Jimmy's pants down around his ankles a couple of times. You're still tumescent about Rumsfeld and Iraq? How do you feel about "our gallant Russian allies?" You know, the perpetrators of the Katyn massacre.
Nobody's "creaming their jeans" about Carter stopping at Hallmark, because he "cares enough to send the very best." He's like a living version of Norman Bates' mother--and, like her, should be locked up in the basement. Mostly we're not surprised that this arrogant newqueler engineer evidently still hasn't gotten the message that he's not president anymore--because he was a total disaster at it. He's a meddling bungler. And the sooner he shuts up, the better.
Carter was one of the guys who helped negotiate the "agreed framework" with North Korea, at the request of then-president Clinton. Part of the diplomatic game is "honest men willing to lie for their country." Within the context of diplomacy you do things like send condolence letters or send the VP off for funerals or negotiate silly cultural exchange programs with people who you wouldn't piss on if they were on fire normally.
The right creaming their jeans over this is funny but all it shows they don't understand that diplomacy with enemies is part of the game. Jaw, jaw is always better than war, war.
Same song, 3245th verse. Only you , in your clever way, would defend this anti-Semitic, anti-American imbecile. There would be no war with NK. They'd just disappear. That is the ones Carter's buddy Kim Jong Il hadn't starved to death. Kim's contribution to "Carter diplomacy" was to pull Jimmy's pants down around his ankles a couple of times. You're still tumescent about Rumsfeld and Iraq? How do you feel about "our gallant Russian allies?" You know, the perpetrators of the Katyn massacre.
Nobody's "creaming their jeans" about Carter stopping at Hallmark, because he "cares enough to send the very best." He's like a living version of Norman Bates' mother--and, like her, should be locked up in the basement. Mostly we're not surprised that this arrogant newqueler engineer evidently still hasn't gotten the message that he's not president anymore--because he was a total disaster at it. He's a meddling bungler. And the sooner he shuts up, the better.
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FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: He says he's not dead.
There's a reason the current administration is nicknamed "Jimmy Carter's Second Term".
I was wondering if we'd see any websites about KJI's death being a conspiracy.
There's a reason the current administration is nicknamed "Jimmy Carter's Second Term".
I was wondering if we'd see any websites about KJI's death being a conspiracy.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: He says he's not dead.
And that reason is the mindlessness predictability of right wing talking points.
Carry on.
There's a reason the current administration is nicknamed "Jimmy Carter's Second Term".
And that reason is the mindlessness predictability of right wing talking points.
Carry on.
leswp1
Well-known member
Re: He says he's not dead.
What ever happened to the concept of diplomacy? When I was a kid it was something most people expected and understood as a necessary evil. If all the countries had the attitude they had to have it their way or nothing, the world wouldn't work.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: He says he's not dead.
Part of being an engaged power in the world is having lines of communication open, even to regimes you loathe. There were plenty of people whose thought process during the Cold War was because the Soviet Union was terrible to its people we shouldn't even talk to them. Luckily, those people didn't get anywhere near real power, or there would probably be about 5 billion fewer people on earth today.
It's galling to talk to criminal regimes and you do your best to send the right signals on different diplomatic levels but just as you said: it's a necessary evil. You don't have to give them MFN and you don't have to listen to them when they lie about you in UN, but there are some harmless things that you can do to edge back a bit from the precipice.
It's particularly hard for Americans to understand this because we're about as close to all-powerful as any nation has been, and we're completely convinced of our ethical superiority (especially when compared to a legitimately nuts North Korean regime) so the temptation is always there to force every issue. That'd be great if that was how the world worked, but taking your marbles and going home just means you aren't in the game.
The Israelis and Hezbollah talk to each other on the sly; I think we can talk to the Norks.
It'd work; there'd just be a lot more bloodshed.
Part of being an engaged power in the world is having lines of communication open, even to regimes you loathe. There were plenty of people whose thought process during the Cold War was because the Soviet Union was terrible to its people we shouldn't even talk to them. Luckily, those people didn't get anywhere near real power, or there would probably be about 5 billion fewer people on earth today.
It's galling to talk to criminal regimes and you do your best to send the right signals on different diplomatic levels but just as you said: it's a necessary evil. You don't have to give them MFN and you don't have to listen to them when they lie about you in UN, but there are some harmless things that you can do to edge back a bit from the precipice.
It's particularly hard for Americans to understand this because we're about as close to all-powerful as any nation has been, and we're completely convinced of our ethical superiority (especially when compared to a legitimately nuts North Korean regime) so the temptation is always there to force every issue. That'd be great if that was how the world worked, but taking your marbles and going home just means you aren't in the game.
The Israelis and Hezbollah talk to each other on the sly; I think we can talk to the Norks.
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Re: He says he's not dead.
Ah-Keep your friends cose, but keep your enemies even closer. I think that is extremely wise advice. BTW, I talk to everyone.
Ah-Keep your friends cose, but keep your enemies even closer. I think that is extremely wise advice. BTW, I talk to everyone.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: He says he's not dead.
Clarkson and SLU are right next door to each other.
Ah-Keep your friends cose, but keep your enemies even closer. I think that is extremely wise advice. BTW, I talk to everyone.
Clarkson and SLU are right next door to each other.
Re: He says he's not dead.
Where to start? I know. Let's dispense with this Most Favored Naton nonsense. MFN translates into "ordinary." It's not unique nor important. And the difference between the beloved Soviet Union and DPRK was several thousand war heads, dozens of divisions, and occupation of half a continent. Other than that, just the same. In fact, the beloved Soviet Union was essentially a Third World country with nukes. The DPRK, on the other hand, should aspire to Third World status. They'd have to come up several notches to get there. But everybody needs a goal.
And your strawman reference to people who didn't want to negotiate with the beloved Soviet Union doesn't cut it. I don't recall any serious person taking that position. I don't consider Robert Welch to be serious.
We have negotiated with DPRK (remember Jimmy Carter?) and will again and may be now for all I know. You always need some channel of communication, even back channel. Recall, that's what JFK used to defuse the Cuban missile crisis.
There is no "precipice" when it comes to DPRK, and you inferentially make a false comparison with the beloved Soviet Union when you use words like that. DPRK may have a vehicle which can reach our west coast. And they have a handfull of warheads. They represent no serious military threat to the United States. South Korea, Japan and Taiwan are different matters, of course.
One consequence of negotiating with DPRK is to legitimize the regime. And before there is any serious bi-lateral relationship with them, they should make some concessions. They need us far more than we need them. This is a regime that requires a loud speaker for government propaganda in every residence. A speaker which cannot be turned off or down. A speaker which can vomit out government propaganda 24/7 if the criminals in charge decide it's in their interest to do so. It is hard for us to contemplate "living" in such a state, although Orwell came pretty close.
So I guess I'm not really disagreeing with you as coming at this matter from a different direction. I think we and other western nations have sent plenty of messages that we stand ready to "help" the people of North Korea. Problem is, most of that "help" would probably be used to feather the nests of the criminals in charge. The one institution that promises to feed people in DPRK is the military. But in recent years even the military has had to revise downward height and weight requirements for recruits because of wide spread starvation. The ordinary language of diplomacy won't work with these people. In the old days there were some adults in the Soviet Union, particularly in the KGB. Adults who knew the truth. How many people are there in DPRK who know the truth? And are they able to offer advice to the leaders without putting their lives at risk?
Where to start? I know. Let's dispense with this Most Favored Naton nonsense. MFN translates into "ordinary." It's not unique nor important. And the difference between the beloved Soviet Union and DPRK was several thousand war heads, dozens of divisions, and occupation of half a continent. Other than that, just the same. In fact, the beloved Soviet Union was essentially a Third World country with nukes. The DPRK, on the other hand, should aspire to Third World status. They'd have to come up several notches to get there. But everybody needs a goal.
And your strawman reference to people who didn't want to negotiate with the beloved Soviet Union doesn't cut it. I don't recall any serious person taking that position. I don't consider Robert Welch to be serious.
We have negotiated with DPRK (remember Jimmy Carter?) and will again and may be now for all I know. You always need some channel of communication, even back channel. Recall, that's what JFK used to defuse the Cuban missile crisis.
There is no "precipice" when it comes to DPRK, and you inferentially make a false comparison with the beloved Soviet Union when you use words like that. DPRK may have a vehicle which can reach our west coast. And they have a handfull of warheads. They represent no serious military threat to the United States. South Korea, Japan and Taiwan are different matters, of course.
One consequence of negotiating with DPRK is to legitimize the regime. And before there is any serious bi-lateral relationship with them, they should make some concessions. They need us far more than we need them. This is a regime that requires a loud speaker for government propaganda in every residence. A speaker which cannot be turned off or down. A speaker which can vomit out government propaganda 24/7 if the criminals in charge decide it's in their interest to do so. It is hard for us to contemplate "living" in such a state, although Orwell came pretty close.
So I guess I'm not really disagreeing with you as coming at this matter from a different direction. I think we and other western nations have sent plenty of messages that we stand ready to "help" the people of North Korea. Problem is, most of that "help" would probably be used to feather the nests of the criminals in charge. The one institution that promises to feed people in DPRK is the military. But in recent years even the military has had to revise downward height and weight requirements for recruits because of wide spread starvation. The ordinary language of diplomacy won't work with these people. In the old days there were some adults in the Soviet Union, particularly in the KGB. Adults who knew the truth. How many people are there in DPRK who know the truth? And are they able to offer advice to the leaders without putting their lives at risk?
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