Harvard Women's Hockey 2011-2012: Taking the Next Step

[PrincetonFan]

Re: Harvard Women's Hockey 2011-2012: Taking the Next Step

Didn't see the game, but it sure is an interesting sport when a month ago the same two teams played and Princeton shut them out. It was Jekyll-and-Hyde Princeton all over again--beat Dartmouth, then get smoked.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Women's Hockey 2011-2012: Taking the Next Step

Pretty impressive period 2 for Harvard today and another disastrous blowout loss for BC. You have to think BC will finally receive a long overdue demotion in the polls, and Harvard will have all the momentum for Tue consolation - absolutely huge game for NCAAs since BC has beaten other bubble teams like UMD and NU. Great opportunity for Harvard.

Dave, I was wondering the same thing when I saw the score. Harvard beat PC earlier this year so if we do beat BC, does this help or hurt us if they free fall? I'm almost thinking that beating BU last week would have been more valuable if BU puts a late season push on and does well in the HE tournament. I guess you have to take these things week to week. I'm still convinced that Harvard will need to win the ECAC tournament and/or beat Cornell (probably one in the same) to get the autobid or an at large if they are even in the running for one.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Harvard Women's Hockey 2011-2012: Taking the Next Step

I'm still convinced that Harvard will need to win the ECAC tournament and/or beat Cornell (probably one in the same) to get the autobid or an at large if they are even in the running for one.

It is not and/or, but if. If Harvard beats Cornell they will win the ECAC autobid, cause unless there are shocking developments, Harvard will finish 2nd or 3rd, which means they will not see Cornell until the league final.

 

[dave1381]

Dave, I was wondering the same thing when I saw the score. Harvard beat PC earlier this year so if we do beat BC, does this help or hurt us if they free fall? I'm almost thinking that beating BU last week would have been more valuable if BU puts a late season push on and does well in the HE tournament. I guess you have to take these things week to week. I'm still convinced that Harvard will need to win the ECAC tournament and/or beat Cornell (probably one in the same) to get the autobid or an at large if they are even in the running for one.

I think if Harvard wins Tuesday and finishes 2nd in the league & postseason they'd be in good shape.

Optimally, I think you'd want BC to freefall just enough so they behind Harvard in the selection criteria but still in the national top 12.

Regardless I think this is the most important game left for NCAA purposes because it's a winnable game and BC has already beaten a number of teams competing with Harvard for an NCAA bid.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Women's Hockey 2011-2012: Taking the Next Step

I won't comment on the current team, what's gone on there, etc because I honestly don't have the history of watching college hockey as long many of you do. But, I am very familiar with many of the girls coming up now, and it appears Katey Stone is doing very well on the recruiting front for the next two years.

For 2012 you have Doensch who is small but feisty and tenacious, one of the reasons the NJ Rockets have been so successful the past few years. Then you have a reunion of Assabet girls starting with Mary Parker (younger sister of Elizabeth) this year as well. You will be more than pleasantly surprised with Mary. Many people were baffled that she never made u18s when she was consistently one of the top performers at USAH National Camp. I think she'll come in and have a rookie season on par with what Emiy Field has been able todo at BC.

The Canadian goalie listed is the one who stoned the US under-18s this year at worlds.

Then in 2013 you have Daniels, Rachlin and Mastel, all off the u18s. Daniels is a strong gritty player and Rachlin and Mastel clearly two of the top D in the US in their graduating class.

I know other Ivy's have also recruited some of these girls and based on discussions/observations, I think many of the top US girls who want Ivy seem to favor Harvard. (Just like many who dont want Ivy tend to favor BC, Wisco or Minn). Not always the case because there is a certain "attitude" at Harvard which some girls dont go for, but it still has the allure of being Harvard......of course some top players who really want to go there have a hard time getting into Harvard (one in recent memory seems to be doing just fine across the Charles).

Also, I think Hux still has Taylor Marchin mentioned as a Harvard commit who is a solid D. My understanding she is not going to Harvard, but Yale in 2013 after a PG year at Choate.

In some ways, you are making my point. Looking at the recruit list, all are from the US and it is very thin. This isn't to say the players coming in can't contribute; there just isn't any depth and that will hurt the following year when this year's junior class graduates. Players who are gritty or feisty are fine but aren't going to put Harvard in the Frozen Four. You need stud players to compete with the likes of Minnesota, Wisconsin and Cornell and I don't see that in the near term.

Also, if it is true that Marchin has de-committed and is going to Yale, that further weakens an already thin class. Harvard can only do this for so long until it catches up to them. I realize that players change their mind but to lose a player to Yale really hurts.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Women's Hockey 2011-2012: Taking the Next Step

I think if Harvard wins Tuesday and finishes 2nd in the league & postseason they'd be in good shape.

Optimally, I think you'd want BC to freefall just enough so they behind Harvard in the selection criteria but still in the national top 12.

Regardless I think this is the most important game left for NCAA purposes because it's a winnable game and BC has already beaten a number of teams competing with Harvard for an NCAA bid.

I was looking at the Pairwise page to better understand the NCAA's process in selecting teams. The TUC seems to be a driver and Harvard's record of 5-5 puts them squarely in the middle. Interestingly, North Dakota has the worst TUC of all the teams save for Clarkson yet is ranked fourth in the PWR (Northeastern has the worst % but hasn't played the same number of games against TUC). BC is right there with Harvard making Tuesday's game all the more important for both teams. Beyond that, Harvard could see Dartmouth, Clarkson or SLU in the semis which would offer another opportunity to bolster their case should they win. Is Harvard necessarily penalized for not capitalizing on games against teams under consideration earlier in the season where other teams have more opportunities against TUC teams going forward?

 

[pakidnyc]

Re: Harvard Women's Hockey 2011-2012: Taking the Next Step

In some ways, you are making my point. Looking at the recruit list, all are from the US and it is very thin. This isn't to say the players coming in can't contribute; there just isn't any depth and that will hurt the following year when this year's junior class graduates. Players who are gritty or feisty are fine but aren't going to put Harvard in the Frozen Four. You need stud players to compete with the likes of Minnesota, Wisconsin and Cornell and I don't see that in the near term.

Also, if it is true that Marchin has de-committed and is going to Yale, that further weakens an already thin class. Harvard can only do this for so long until it catches up to them. I realize that players change their mind but to lose a player to Yale really hurts.

I am not sure what you consider to be a "stud," but for a '95 Sidney Daniels to get 5 pts. in the u18 World Championships is pretty studly to me. And, Natasha Rachlin is the ONLY '95 D that made the team. The others, Bri Mastel will be strong on the blue line and Miye D'oench will score some goals. Plus, you have the Canadian stud goalie who "stoned" the US squad. I am not sure what you're expecting from 16-17 yo's, but I think these are all going to develop into nice, solid and strong players for Harvard. And, Mary Parker, who's a skilled '93 will be great as well.

Don't get me wrong, Harvard is not the 1st or 2nd Ivy league team I cheer for, but I am a fan of many of these girls and have watched them play. Frankly, I am jealous that these top US u18 players are picking Harvard over a more preferable shade of RED! Your glass is definitely half empty which is too bad --hopefully these girls will give you a pleasant surprise then. Keep in mind, all of the girls listed above except D'oench have played many years for Assabet, each winning several USAH National Championships. These girls know what it takes to win and I am just glad happy that women's hockey has evolved to what it has at the college level.

As for Marchin, that's just what I have heard from several sources around Detroit -- the Tier 1 League playoffs were held this weekend, so there was lots of talk going on about what's happening with Tier 1/HPHL league, college commits, etc.

 

[pakidnyc]

Re: Harvard Women's Hockey 2011-2012: Taking the Next Step

Oddly I just came across this today as well. I assume she's a 2013 commit since she's on CYA's u16 team.

http://www.cyahockey.com/news_article/show/130900?referrer_id=96615

Edited to add I was corrected by IllinoisDad.....she's a 2014 commit!

 

[dave1381]

Re: Harvard Women's Hockey 2011-2012: Taking the Next Step

I was looking at the Pairwise page to better understand the NCAA's process in selecting teams.

Great.

The TUC seems to be a driver and Harvard's record of 5-5 puts them squarely in the middle.

Yes, though that depends on the current teams remaining in the RPI 12. It's good for Harvard if BU or any other team they have a sub-500 record against stay out of there, though I'm thinking BU is going to make a run. If one team from the ECAC has to fall out of the RPI top 12, preferably it is Dartmouth rather than SLU or Clarkson. A lot of rooting interests in neutral games there.

Interestingly, North Dakota has the worst TUC of all the teams save for Clarkson yet is ranked fourth in the PWR

Mainly it's the result of playing Wisconsin 4 times and getting one tie. Most teams would not do better. That's one reason why they are still 4 in the PWR, because ND has still done better against common opponents of the various top 8 teams.

Is Harvard necessarily penalized for not capitalizing on games against teams under consideration earlier in the season where other teams have more opportunities against TUC teams going forward?

I'm not sure I fully understand the answer to the question, but I think the answer is yes. Some teams have more games against the RPI top 12 than others. Some teams play tougher games than the RPI top 12 than others. It is a strange criterion for various reasons.

 

[D2D]

Re: Harvard Women's Hockey 2011-2012: Taking the Next Step

Video highlights of Harvard's thrashing of Princeton:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=g3HR4AXuTWg

 

[dave1381]

Re: Harvard Women's Hockey 2011-2012: Taking the Next Step

If Harvard can win this BC game, things are set up nicely going forward. Last 4 ECAC games against bottom 5 teams of the league, and then a likely quarterfinal against Princeton. If Harvard can host an ECAC semifinal, hopefully it'd be against Clarkson or St. Lawrence, for which the home ice matters a lot more than against Dartmouth. None of this is easy -- Brown & RPI will be battling for the last ECAC spot, Princeton will be looking for revenge, Clarkson/SLU are much-improved from when Harvard swept them, and Dartmouth beat Harvard at Bright last year.

You have to take it one game at a time, but it's definitely within the grasp of this team to be headed into an ECAC final at Cornell with a 24-7-1 record and 10-game win streak and some momentum. We'll see if they can get it done. A 24-8-1 team could even have a shot at NCAA quarterfinal home ice.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Women's Hockey 2011-2012: Taking the Next Step

I am not sure what you consider to be a "stud," but for a '95 Sidney Daniels to get 5 pts. in the u18 World Championships is pretty studly to me. And, Natasha Rachlin is the ONLY '95 D that made the team. The others, Bri Mastel will be strong on the blue line and Miye D'oench will score some goals. Plus, you have the Canadian stud goalie who "stoned" the US squad. I am not sure what you're expecting from 16-17 yo's, but I think these are all going to develop into nice, solid and strong players for Harvard. And, Mary Parker, who's a skilled '93 will be great as well.

Don't get me wrong, Harvard is not the 1st or 2nd Ivy league team I cheer for, but I am a fan of many of these girls and have watched them play. Frankly, I am jealous that these top US u18 players are picking Harvard over a more preferable shade of RED! Your glass is definitely half empty which is too bad --hopefully these girls will give you a pleasant surprise then. Keep in mind, all of the girls listed above except D'oench have played many years for Assabet, each winning several USAH National Championships. These girls know what it takes to win and I am just glad happy that women's hockey has evolved to what it has at the college level.

As for Marchin, that's just what I have heard from several sources around Detroit -- the Tier 1 League playoffs were held this weekend, so there was lots of talk going on about what's happening with Tier 1/HPHL league, college commits, etc.

By 'stud' player, I'm referring to the likes of Vallaincourt and Chu. Those players put you on the national map and make a difference from Day One. I haven't seen that lately from the recruits that have come in save for Pucci and Dempsey and I hesitate to put either in the former's class of player. Don't get me wrong, both are great players. But there is a difference when you have blue chip talent.

Happy that Harvard is attracting these women and that they are succeeding at a high level. I never set any expectations because I haven't seen them play. I was just commenting on the fact that Harvard lately has had trouble attracting that level of player. Maybe this will change with the next class or two.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Women's Hockey 2011-2012: Taking the Next Step

If Harvard can win this BC game, things are set up nicely going forward. Last 4 ECAC games against bottom 5 teams of the league, and then a likely quarterfinal against Princeton. If Harvard can host an ECAC semifinal, hopefully it'd be against Clarkson or St. Lawrence, for which the home ice matters a lot more than against Dartmouth. None of this is easy -- Brown & RPI will be battling for the last ECAC spot, Princeton will be looking for revenge, Clarkson/SLU are much-improved from when Harvard swept them, and Dartmouth beat Harvard at Bright last year.

You have to take it one game at a time, but it's definitely within the grasp of this team to be headed into an ECAC final at Cornell with a 24-7-1 record and 10-game win streak and some momentum. We'll see if they can get it done. A 24-8-1 team could even have a shot at NCAA quarterfinal home ice.

And the Green beat us at Bright in November although we returned the favor a week later up at Thompson.

It does seem like we are set up to finish second although the game against RPI will be very tough. From there, who knows? The playoffs are a different season altogether and Princeton will most certainly be seeking revenge. I'd rather play SLU in the semis than either Clarkson or Dartmouth but I'll take my chances on home ice against any team despite our so-so record in the playoffs these past couple of seasons.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Harvard Women's Hockey 2011-2012: Taking the Next Step

I'd rather play SLU in the semis than either Clarkson or Dartmouth....

Seen all three teams play recently, and I would not underestimate SLU. They are one of the hottest teams in the ECAC, having a 13-1-1 run going since early December.

 

[ARM]

Re: Harvard Women's Hockey 2011-2012: Taking the Next Step

Seen all three teams play recently, and I would not underestimate SLU.

For whatever reason, going back many years, the Saints seem to have little success against Harvard. Even in the years where SLU had some of its best teams, more often than not, it lost to the Crimson.

 

[Watson Rink]

Re: Harvard Women's Hockey 2011-2012: Taking the Next Step

While it's not just encouraging, but highly exciting, that the Hot Stove League (or should hockey call its offseason speculations the Day at the Beach League?) is providing us with such visions of sugarplums dancing in our heads, and the particular phenoms being mentioned do appear to have excellent credentials, we're all aware of the caveats that attach to whether each individual will actually show up (Coyne) and stay (Young). Furthermore, I must confess I'm lost when I cross-check the colloquy above against the posts on the two D-I commitments threads. Exactly who is expected to be coming next fall, and how wavering is the wavering D? Who is the stud Canadian goalie and how old is she? Are all the (four? five?) Assabet players prospective '14s except for Mary Parker who is a prospective '13? Are three of the Assabet '14s really D's? What I most care about at the moment is just that next year there are enough skaters to allow rolling three lines and three defensive pairs without worrying about injuries and illnesses. Beyond that I suppose everything is gravy....but what exciting gravy!

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Women's Hockey 2011-2012: Taking the Next Step

Seen all three teams play recently, and I would not underestimate SLU. They are one of the hottest teams in the ECAC, having a 13-1-1 run going since early December.

Very true but as ARM pointed out, Harvard has had success against SLU especially at Bright. They remain the best option for a semifinal matchup.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Women's Hockey 2011-2012: Taking the Next Step

I'm not sure I fully understand the answer to the question, but I think the answer is yes. Some teams have more games against the RPI top 12 than others. Some teams play tougher games than the RPI top 12 than others. It is a strange criterion for various reasons.

Where I was going with this question was as follows: Harvard played a schedule heavy with TUC teams (Minnesota, Cornell, SLU, Dartmouth) earlier in the season with poor results. In the month of February, they have only BC as a TUC team that they can beat and help themselves to a better ranking in the Pairwise. Otherwise, it's wait until the playoffs and hope you draw some combination of SLU, Dartmouth, Clarkson and Cornell for the semis and finals to give yourself a chance at an NCAA bid. Of course, if they win the ECAC tournament, it becomes a moot point because of the autobid. Failing that, all they have to rely on is beating BC and seeing one of the aforementioned teams in the playoffs. Meanwhile, teams like Mercyhurst, North Dakota and UMD get to play a schedule where they have more opportunities to beat TUC teams. So my question was more around does Harvard get penalized because of the conference they play in and their final month schedule as opposed to a BC or UMD that will in all likelihood face more TUC teams in this final month and have more chances to move up in the rankings?

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Women's Hockey 2011-2012: Taking the Next Step

While it's not just encouraging, but highly exciting, that the Hot Stove League (or should hockey call its offseason speculations the Day at the Beach League?) is providing us with such visions of sugarplums dancing in our heads, and the particular phenoms being mentioned do appear to have excellent credentials, we're all aware of the caveats that attach to whether each individual will actually show up (Coyne) and stay (Young). Furthermore, I must confess I'm lost when I cross-check the colloquy above against the posts on the two D-I commitments threads. Exactly who is expected to be coming next fall, and how wavering is the wavering D? Who is the stud Canadian goalie and how old is she? Are all the (four? five?) Assabet players prospective '14s except for Mary Parker who is a prospective '13? Are three of the Assabet '14s really D's? What I most care about at the moment is just that next year there are enough skaters to allow rolling three lines and three defensive pairs without worrying about injuries and illnesses. Beyond that I suppose everything is gravy....but what exciting gravy!

Hux just listed an update to the Commitments thread and the goalie is now listed as a recruit. She has a really interesting first name "Emerance". If she is as good as advertised, then Bellamy will have some competition next year.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Women's Hockey 2011-2012: Taking the Next Step

Anyone know what's up with Elizabeth Parker? She didn't play this weekend. Hope she is okay and good to go soon. It would make the third line with Crowe and Baumgartner a much better line.