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Harvard Hockey 2010-11

Re: Harvard Hockey 2010-11

I'm sure Dartmouth feels the same way.
Haha, well what's the lesson Dartmouth takes from the late-game major penalty against Clarkson?

"Whoa, we almost took away any chance we had of coming back with a late-game penalty, phew, let's never do that again."

or

"No matter what stupid things we do, we can overcome them."
 
Re: Harvard Hockey 2010-11

Haha, well what's the lesson Dartmouth takes from the late-game major penalty against Clarkson?

"Whoa, we almost took away any chance we had of coming back with a late-game penalty, phew, let's never do that again."

or

"No matter what stupid things we do, we can overcome them."

Maybe not an either/or! They obviously don't want to put themselves in a similar hole against Harvard, and yet it's probably a confidence-builder knowing that you can come back if faced with that kind of adversity.
 
Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Well a real downer tonight and I'm tempted to say "I told you so" to Dave but I won't. Oh crap, I just did. Oh well, it's been that kind of night.

Where to start. Harvard came out tentative and simply didn't play their game. Dartmouth had something to do with it playing a sound defensive game. But Harvard really contributed to the win by making sloppy passes and throwing softies at Holdscroft. If their shots ever got through which wasn't often as Dartmouth pressed the Crimson all over the ice. Harvard seemed shell shocked at times and played their worst game since the NCAA fiasco against Cornell last year.

The Crimson have to find a way to win these semifinal games because they have lost 4 of the past 5 going back to '07. They need to be tougher mentally and physically if they hope to advance to the Frozen Four in the future. Yes they are young but that should not be used as an excuse necessarily. And their goaltending needs to get better. Bellamy could only be faulted on one of the goals as Harvard's D abandoned her at times. But I don't think the Crimson will make it to the finals of the ECAC or to the Frozen Four without a top flight goalie.

Now we need to hope that Kelly Coyne gets in and decides to come to Cambridge. That would take the sting out of tonight's loss.
 
Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Well a real downer tonight and I'm tempted to say "I told you so" to Dave but I won't. Oh crap, I just did. Oh well, it's been that kind of night.

Where to start. Harvard came out tentative and simply didn't play their game. Dartmouth had something to do with it playing a sound defensive game. But Harvard really contributed to the win by making sloppy passes and throwing softies at Holdscroft. If their shots ever got through which wasn't often as Dartmouth pressed the Crimson all over the ice. Harvard seemed shell shocked at times and played their worst game since the NCAA fiasco against Cornell last year.

The Crimson have to find a way to win these semifinal games because they have lost 4 of the past 5 going back to '07. They need to be tougher mentally and physically if they hope to advance to the Frozen Four in the future. Yes they are young but that should not be used as an excuse necessarily. And their goaltending needs to get better. Bellamy could only be faulted on one of the goals as Harvard's D abandoned her at times. But I don't think the Crimson will make it to the finals of the ECAC or to the Frozen Four without a top flight goalie.

Now we need to hope that Kelly Coyne gets in and decides to come to Cambridge. That would take the sting out of tonight's loss.

Sorry to be the one to burst your bubble but Kendall Coyne has already committed to Northeastern for next year. Pretty much official.
 
Re: What is Harvard lacking?

Re: What is Harvard lacking?

Today on other boards learn that Dartmouth has "Secret Juju" whilst Princeton has "Hogwarts Luster."

Gosh, I'm feeling naked....what do we have in Cambridge that corresponds to those secret weapons?

Any suggestions?

You funny.
 
Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Well a real downer tonight and I'm tempted to say "I told you so" to Dave but I won't. Oh crap, I just did. Oh well, it's been that kind of night.
Well look, Dartmouth & Harvard are travel partners and play the same schedule, and Dartmouth had outplayed Harvard pretty much every weekend in February. I don't think today's outcome has anything to do with the November results.
 
Re: What is Harvard lacking?

Re: What is Harvard lacking?

Quoting Dave-'dave1381'-from above: "Our resident Dartmouth poster is suggesting that the Green has "unfinished business" in Cambridge, but I have to believe those two November losses bite at the poster more than the players, who haven't invested in a Harvard-Dartmouth rivalry for nearly as many years."

That might be me. Skate, others likely would know. And I have spoken out against the Crimson.
Dartmouth displaying the heroics this annum.

AMAZING heroics!

Maybe is, juju.

Take the game to your opponent; do not let up; play your game; play through, to the puck going into the back of the net, to the scoreboard showing you the winner.
 
Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Well look, Dartmouth & Harvard are travel partners and play the same schedule, and Dartmouth had outplayed Harvard pretty much every weekend in February. I don't think today's outcome has anything to do with the November results.

Yeah I get it Dave and insofar as I'm not in a good mood tonight because of the loss, can we please dispense with the digs at my comment on beating an opponent three times in a season? Okay? And I don't think Dartmouth necessarily outplayed the Crimson by that wide a margin in February. Yeah we lost to Princeton at home and Cornell on the final day of the season but other than that, the teams were pretty close. I said that in November and I'll stand by that assertion tonight.
 
Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Yeah I get it Dave and insofar as I'm not in a good mood tonight because of the loss, can we please dispense with the digs at my comment on beating an opponent three times in a season? Okay? And I don't think Dartmouth necessarily outplayed the Crimson by that wide a margin in February. Yeah we lost to Princeton at home and Cornell on the final day of the season but other than that, the teams were pretty close. I said that in November and I'll stand by that assertion tonight.
Ok, sorry. And I think you are right and I was wrong in the sense that most of these Dartmouth players had known almost nothing but losing against Harvard. I'm sure they wanted it more. I'm sure it was nice for the Dartmouth seniors whose season ended freshman year in the same building.
 
Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Princeton women's hockey is starting to resemble the Indianapolis Colts football team. Great regular seasons, then failure in the playoffs.

While Princeton has talent, I don't know that I would go so far as to say they get 'many top players'. They usually have two or three great players and then some good to average players that fill out the roster. That might be part of the problem come playoff time. But certainly coaching is a factor. Katey Stone is absolutely fantastic getting her teams ready for the first round. Some coaches just know how to prepare their teams for the 'second season' and this might be Kampersal's achille's heel.


Well a real downer tonight and I'm tempted to say "I told you so" to Dave but I won't. Oh crap, I just did. Oh well, it's been that kind of night.

Where to start. Harvard came out tentative and simply didn't play their game. Dartmouth had something to do with it playing a sound defensive game. But Harvard really contributed to the win by making sloppy passes and throwing softies at Holdscroft. If their shots ever got through which wasn't often as Dartmouth pressed the Crimson all over the ice. Harvard seemed shell shocked at times and played their worst game since the NCAA fiasco against Cornell last year.

The Crimson have to find a way to win these semifinal games because they have lost 4 of the past 5 going back to '07. They need to be tougher mentally and physically if they hope to advance to the Frozen Four in the future. Yes they are young but that should not be used as an excuse necessarily. And their goaltending needs to get better. Bellamy could only be faulted on one of the goals as Harvard's D abandoned her at times. But I don't think the Crimson will make it to the finals of the ECAC or to the Frozen Four without a top flight goalie.

So do I have this about right? In your mind Princeton's disappointing playoff results have been attributable to a significant extent due to their coaching. Despite gloating in that same post about Harvard's coach, you later note (after you've had an unfortunate fall off your high horse) that Harvard's lost the semis 4 of the last 5 times, and opine they just need a better goaltender, and maybe an Olympian or two.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't two of those losses still happen with a goalie who earned the NCAA record for save percentage?

See any irony in your inconsistency? Of course you won't.

Teams don't necessarily need great coaching to win a lot of games with a bunch of Olympians and an all-star goalie. The very best coaches achieve during the season at levels beyond expectation based on their rosters on paper, and tend to also manage to inspire their teams to play their very best hockey once they get deep in the playoffs. But teams with good coaches don't always find a way to succeed either if the talent isn't competitive, or the injury bug hits.

Last year a couple of things struck me while watching the NCAA Frozen Four. First, that Cornell was playing way over their heads, infinitely better than they had for most of the season. The team looked so driven, yet loose and totally in sync with each other--despite not really having the wealth of talent that some other teams may have had, and an extremely depleted roster. Similarly, that UMD, after an underwhelming start to the season, was also firing on all cylinders. But what struck me most, (well, other than Shannon Miller's jacket :D), was how unbelievably loose Miller was on the bench, cracking jokes and clearly having lots of fun with her players in the middle of an OT final. I'd never been much of a fan of Miller, but gained a whole new level of respect for her after last year's performance.

To me, Dartmouth's win over Harvard last night wasn't particularly surprising. Harvard has shown a lack of discipline over much of the season in taking a large number of penalties versus other teams. A further issue it that its penalty kill has been mediocre, as has its own power play. Contrast that to the success of Dartmouth's power play this season, and you had a recipe for Dartmouth to prevail purely on the basis of special teams. Dartmouth took advantage. Two of Dartmouth's goals came on the PP in short order and put the nail in the Crimson Coffin in the second period.
 
Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't two of those losses still happen with a goalie who earned the NCAA record for save percentage?
You are wrong. Kessler started only in the 2009 loss.
 
Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Re: An Era of Good Feelings

You are wrong. Kessler started only in the 2009 loss.

She may not have started in all those game, but she still was at Harvard over that four year period and available to start, other than after her career-ending injury last season. If she did not start each of those games, I would assume it was because the other goalie was playing even better. A nice problem to have. The point remains the same.
 
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Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Ok, I don't think you're giving quite a fair assessment of Katey's coaching performance.

Teams don't necessarily need great coaching to win a lot of games with a bunch of Olympians and an all-star goalie.

Sure, but there are also teams with Olympians who don't live up to expectations either. And Harvard was generally more consistent over the last decade than other teams that had similar levels of talent.

The very best coaches achieve during the season at levels beyond expectation based on their rosters on paper, and tend to also manage to inspire their teams to play their very best hockey once they get deep in the playoffs. But teams with good coaches don't always find a way to succeed either if the talent isn't competitive, or the injury bug hits.

Agreed. And if you look at most Harvard teams in the last decade, they did better than expected based on preseason conference and national predictions. The only exception really was the 06-07 team which never could seem to win the biggest games but still took the eventual NCAA champ to 4 overtimes.

And you can definitely find examples of Harvard teams that succeeded without top-flight talent. The 05-06 team still won the NCAA title. I think it was a big achievement for the 09-10 team to still hold on to NCAA home ice once Kessler was injured.

And if we care a lot about comparison's with Princeton, Harvard has advanced to the ECAC semifinals every year since 1998-99, while Princeton's only ever done it twice. Obviously Harvard's had better talent most of that time. Now if you swapped coaches, do you think Kampersal would have done better than Katey did at Harvard, or Katey at Princeton? It's hard to tell. But I think the last two years are the closest the teams have been in terms of having similar talent levels, (considering Harvard post-Kessler in 09-10) and clearly Harvard made the ECAC semifinals both years and Princeton did neither.

Last year a couple of things struck me while watching the NCAA Frozen Four. First, that Cornell was playing way over their heads, infinitely better than they had for most of the season. The team looked so driven, yet loose and totally in sync with each other--despite not really having the wealth of talent that some other teams may have had, and an extremely depleted roster. Similarly, that UMD, after an underwhelming start to the season, was also firing on all cylinders. But what struck me most, (well, other than Shannon Miller's jacket :D), was how unbelievably loose Miller was on the bench, cracking jokes and clearly having lots of fun with her players in the middle of an OT final. I'd never been much of a fan of Miller, but gained a whole new level of respect for her after last year's performance.

Sure, though lots of successful teams tend to look like this. I'd say the same was true for most highly successful Harvard teams. Maybe the 2002-03 team was a bit too tense down the stretch.

To me, Dartmouth's win over Harvard last night wasn't particularly surprising. Harvard has shown a lack of discipline over much of the season in taking a large number of penalties versus other teams. A further issue it that its penalty kill has been mediocre, as has its own power play. Contrast that to the success of Dartmouth's power play this season, and you had a recipe for Dartmouth to prevail purely on the basis of special teams. Dartmouth took advantage. Two of Dartmouth's goals came on the PP in short order and put the nail in the Crimson Coffin in the second period.

I agree with this paragraph. Dartmouth had a top 5 PP power play, Harvard had a bottom 5 PK. This has been very uncharacteristic of Harvard hockey, as I said earlier in this thread. Harvard traditionally has had very good special teams, even when they might not have had the best talent. For example, the 2001-02 team still had the No. 1 PP in the country with no Olympians.

I do believe the high penalty minutes and pitiful PK of this Harvard team are the biggest failure of Katey Stone's coaching career. But I don't think that's an indictment of her more generally. And generally I don't think you give enough credit to her success on the few occasions when she had less talent and for her level of success when she had more talent.

Next year's team basically has no senior class. I tend not to follow recruiting more closely, but I think it'll be one of the weakest group of players Harvard has ever had. It'll interesting to see how they perform.
 
Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Re: An Era of Good Feelings

She may not have started in all those game, but she still was at Harvard over that four year period and available to start, other than after her career-ending injury last season. If she did not start each of those games, I would assume it was because the other goalie was playing even better. A nice problem to have. The point remains the same.
Ok, but your point is still nonsense. Was Kessler, playing to the best of her ability at 100% of her health, available to Harvard for any ECAC tournament other than 2007-08 I would say no. She had a great 07-08 and first half of 09-10. She was not 100% her freshman, and her junior year she wasn't as good throughout the season, and I don't think you can attribute that to Katey's postseason coaching as is clearly your intent.
 
Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Sure, but there are also teams with Olympians who don't live up to expectations either. .

Agree completely. Talent is not usually sufficient for success. The point is merely that it can be tough to appreciate who the best coaches really are until they have to coach a team that is able to overachieve relative to their talent level.

Now if you swapped coaches, do you think Kampersal would have done better than Katey did at Harvard, or Katey at Princeton? It's hard to tell. .

Very interesting question! I have no idea.

I do believe the high penalty minutes and pitiful PK of this Harvard team are the biggest failure of Katey Stone's coaching career. But I don't think that's an indictment of her more generally. And generally I don't think you give enough credit to her success on the few occasions when she had less talent and for her level of success when she had more talent.

Next year's team basically has no senior class. I tend not to follow recruiting more closely, but I think it'll be one of the weakest group of players Harvard has ever had. It'll interesting to see how they perform.

To be clear, the intent of the post was not at all to indict Stone as a coach. Clearly she must have done lots of things well to have had an impressive record of overall success all these years. Like Kampersal, I'm sure she has both considerable strengths as well as some weaknesses, and I don't claim particular expertise on why neither team has had as much playoff success as might have been expected in recent years. Undoubtedly it's usually more than one thing, and team chemistry often plays a big role when teams fall flat in the thick of things. But I do think that Harvard's teams over the last few years have been more talented than Princeton's overall (also borne out by their position in the standings), which would a reasonable explanation as to why Harvard might have advanced further.

What really irked me is that it's highly hypocritical for a Harvard fan to come on here and specifically denigrate Kampersal's coaching ability on the basis of his playoff record, and hint at the need for change, while at the same time seeming to completely absolve Stone of any accountability for Harvard's own playoff failures. He offers instead entirely different excuses, most particularly goaltending and the need for an other Olympic calibre recruit. To me, that's just a copout.

It's really easy when teams disappoint to just ask for a coaches head, or hope for a sudden influx of allstar talent. It's harder to take stock and figure how to get the most of what you do have, and get them to gel as a team that is more than a sum of its parts. That may mean making adjustments in coaching style (or adding complementary coaching skillsets), and/or focusing on how to better motivate and develop the players you do have, to achieve to their full potential.
 
Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Re: An Era of Good Feelings

But I do think that Harvard's teams over the last few years have been more talented than Princeton's overall (also borne out by their position in the standings), which would a reasonable explanation as to why Harvard might have advanced further.
You seem to be taking the position that Harvard's success in the standings last 3 seasons must be all due to talent and that Harvard's playoff ECAC semifinal defeats are all due to coaching. I don't think that's quite fair.

On some level the 2008-09 team surely underachieved. I do think it was impressive that this team came back from a large deficit in the standings to win the ECAC regular season title, but perhaps they should have been better to begin with. To miss NCAAs on a team with Kessler and Vaillancourt is disappointing no matter how you spin it.

I think the 2009-10 team overachieved when they had Kessler and overachieved when they lost Kessler (though they clearly weren't as good without Kessler). I don't think the Harvard team post Kessler was tremendously more talented than Princeton.

I think this 2010-11 team overachieved a bit in the regular season, esp. when you compare this team to some others in the ECAC. I'm not sure if they were as talented as Dartmouth or Quinnipiac this season but they went 3-1 against them in the regular season. In the ECAC semis, they were average again.

It's really easy when teams disappoint to just ask for a coaches head, or hope for a sudden influx of allstar talent. It's harder to take stock and figure how to get the most of what you do have, and get them to gel as a team that is more than a sum of its parts. That may mean making adjustments in coaching style (or adding complementary coaching skillsets), and/or focusing on how to better motivate and develop the players you do have, to achieve to their full potential.

Ok, I agree with this to some degree. On the other hand some players can have disappointing results and deserve to receive more competition, especially goalies who haven't performed up to expectations. My perspective isn't simply "Harvard needs another Kessler to replace Bellamy." I would be content with an above-average but not superstar goalie who continues to improve over her career. I didn't expect Bellamy to be anything close to Kessler, but I also didn't expect Harvard to have a bottom 5 national penalty kill either, and surely the goalie is a big part of that. So I would expect that Katey gives Bellamy the opportunity to work in the offseason and improve her junior year, but I wouldn't hold it against it Katey if that doesn't happen and Bellamy is replaced with a younger player whose expected performance was about at Bellamy's level when she came in.
 
Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Ok, but your point is still nonsense. Was Kessler, playing to the best of her ability at 100% of her health, available to Harvard for any ECAC tournament other than 2007-08 I would say no. She had a great 07-08 and first half of 09-10. She was not 100% her freshman, and her junior year she wasn't as good throughout the season, and I don't think you can attribute that to Katey's postseason coaching as is clearly your intent.

My point is nonsense? I don't think there is ever just any one reason a team fails to meet expectation, and it is certainly unfair to try to blame it on any one thing, including coaching. I just don't think that if a team misses 4/5 years that coaching plays absolutely no role either. With all due respect, I think your point instead suggesting that Harvard's problems over that time trace primarily to goaltending is complete nonsense.

In Kessler's freshman year 06-07 her injury was at the beginning of the season, not the end, so she would most certainly have been healthy and available come playoffs. Regardless of not being 100% after her return, she had a save percentage that season of .929. Nevertheless, Martin's save percentage that year was an even more impressive .933. Hardly suggestive of any goaltending issues there with either one.

The next season, Kessler's save percentage was an incomparable .964. As you note, this was her best season, and one that would be quite difficult for anyone to have to match.

But you go on to claim that Kessler had a sub-par season in 08-09. Her save percentage that year was "only" .936. If Harvard had issues, it would seem that goaltending would have been the least of them. Most programs would be envious to have a goalie of that calibre.

Even last year, after Kessler was lost to injury, Bellamy achieved a save percentage of .921 for the season. So while she may not have set the world on fire, neither was it indicative of glaring issues. Holdcroft has not achieved that mark this season, though Bellamy's performance statistically has certainly eroded a fair bit this year.

Cornell went all the way to the NCAA final last year with Mazzotta's save percentage of .927.
 
Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Re: An Era of Good Feelings

You seem to be taking the position that Harvard's success in the standings last 3 seasons must be all due to talent and that Harvard's playoff ECAC semifinal defeats are all due to coaching. I don't think that's quite fair..

No, actually that's not my position at all. It's not black and white, which is what it seemed Skate79 was trying to make it....clearly coaching in the case of Princeton if you change the names in your statement above, but rather goaltending in Harvard's case. I stated much earlier I didn't think it was fair to place all the blame on Kampersal either. In many ways I don't think the situations are all that different, at least in the last few years. I simply was challenging the inconsistency/hypocrisy of his position by asking the question, what makes one coach totally accountable, and the other not at all.

I think this 2010-11 team overachieved a bit in the regular season, esp. when you compare this team to some others in the ECAC. I'm not sure if they were as talented as Dartmouth or Quinnipiac this season but they went 3-1 against them in the regular season. In the ECAC semis, they were average again. ..

I certainly do agree that the 09-10 team overachieved a fair bit versus what might have been expected during the season. I disagree with you about 10-11 though. At season start I actually thought Harvard would finish top 2-3 in a race with Clarkson and behind Cornell, based on their roster, which they did. And having seen these teams play multiple times, I still believe Harvard had more depth of overall talent than Dartmouth, Quinnipiac, or Princeton. My biggest surprises this year was that Clarkson did not do much better, and that Dartmouth would do nearly as well as they ended up doing.



I didn't expect Bellamy to be anything close to Kessler, but I also didn't expect Harvard to have a bottom 5 national penalty kill either, and surely the goalie is a big part of that.

Sure. Granted Bellamy did not have even the season she had last year in net. But the 4 other players supporting her have to hold their share of accountability for those PK stats too.

Dartmouth managed to allow less than half as many PPGA as Harvard during the season, despite not having one of the more highly ranked goalies in the league (or what many perceived was one of the best D corps). And Cornell's #2 and #3 goalies who filled the void with Mazzotta injured after Christmas also posted equally great stats, as a result of the great team defense in front of them.

As posters commented after both last year's loss to Cornell, and this year's loss to Dartmouth, Bellamy did get hung out to dry by her defense on multiple occasions in these games.
 
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Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Re: An Era of Good Feelings

I don't think we're as far apart as you might think. I think we've just miscommunicated here.

My point is nonsense? I don't think there is ever just any one reason a team fails to meet expectation, and it is certainly unfair to try to blame it on any one thing, including coaching. I just don't think that if a team misses 4/5 years that coaching plays absolutely no role either. With all due respect, I think your point instead suggesting that Harvard's problems over that time trace primarily to goaltending is complete nonsense.

What I thought you were saying was that Harvard only had one great season in 4 years despite having the greatest goalie in NCAA history. My response was simply that Kessler had one-and-half great years and two very good years, and I don't think you could argue that poor coaching from Katey wasted two great years from Kessler, though maybe Katey could've done more to take advantage of two very good years from Kessler. That's all.

I just don't think that if a team misses 4/5 years that coaching plays absolutely no role either.

Well I definitely take issue with the idea that 4 of those 5 years were "misses" because the team lost in the ECAC semifinals, and discounting any other accomplishments. ( I know it's Skate79 not you who first said it after a frustrating defeat, but you're running with it. )

I don't look at Harvard in the last 5 years as a program that's terribly underachieved -- especially not at a time when Brown has collapsed and Dartmouth missed the ECAC playoffs one year with an Olympian and Princeton can't ever make the ECAC semifinals and SLU and Clarkson are no longer what they were. It's definitely a mixed bag of coaching success given the recruits they've brought in, neither outstanding nor a complete disaster. And then of course you do give some credit to Katey's recruiting over the years too.

With all due respect, I think your point instead suggesting that Harvard's problems over that time trace primarily to goaltending is complete nonsense.
Not what I was saying, though I think I clarified this already above.

And having seen these teams play multiple times, I still believe Harvard had more depth of overall talent than Dartmouth, Quinnipiac, or Princeton. My biggest surprises this year was that Clarkson did not do much better, and that Dartmouth would do nearly as well as they ended up doing.
Maybe I can give you Dartmouth, but I think Quinnipiac and Princeton had far superior goaltending and Quinnipiac had the League Player of the Year. If there was a gap between Harvard and Princeton in talent I don't think it was large, and I don't Quinnipiac ever played to there potential three games in a row until the playoffs.

Sure. Granted Bellamy did not have even the season she had last year in net. But the 4 other players supporting her have hold some accountability for those PK stats too. As posters commented after both last year's loss to Cornell, and this year's loss to Dartmouth, Bellamy did get hung out to dry by her defense on multiple occasions in these games.
And sure, I'm not trying to put the PK failures all on Bellamy. And I already said I think it's the single biggest coaching failure of Katey that I've seen that Harvard had these problems early on and was not able to improve them in time for the playoffs.
 
Re: An Era of Good Feelings

Re: An Era of Good Feelings

I don't think we're as far apart as you might think. I think we've just miscommunicated here.

Well I definitely take issue with the idea that 4 of those 5 years were "misses" because the team lost in the ECAC semifinals, and discounting any other accomplishments. ( I know it's Skate79 not you who first said it after a frustrating defeat, but you're running with it. )

I don't look at Harvard in the last 5 years as a program that's terribly underachieved -- especially not at a time when Brown has collapsed and Dartmouth missed the ECAC playoffs one year with an Olympian and Princeton can't ever make the ECAC semifinals and SLU and Clarkson are no longer what they were. It's definitely a mixed bag of coaching success given the recruits they've brought in, neither outstanding nor a complete disaster. And then of course you do give some credit to Katey's recruiting over the years too.

I definitely think we' re coming closer together, LOL. We'll have to agree to disagree on Harvard vs Princeton and Quinnipiac, though I do grant that they have better goaltending than Harvard at present. Interestingly, apparently Harvard had no interest a couple of years ago on a better goalie who ended up at another Ivy.

I agree that I would not characterize Harvard as a team that's terribly underachieved as a whole over the last 5 years either, just like I don't think Princeton's terribly underachieved. There are lots of teams with lots bigger challenges.

Harvard's been a ranked team most years, finished high in the standings, won the Beanpot, Ivy Titles, etc. Most programs would certainly envy their overall degree of success without question. The only real blotch on that record would be not being able to continue to replicate that same kind of success through the playoffs over the last few years. Occasionally, most teams will lose to a lower ranked opponent, especially in a single game elimination. It happens. But when a pattern of losing playoff games to lower seeds develops over an extended period of time, I don't think it's unreasonable either to try to figure out what else might be needed to help get over that hump (without jumping all the way to replacing coaches at one extreme or an infusion of more allstar talent at the other). Internal analysis and introspection is all part of the continuous improvement and continuous learning processes.
 
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