Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

[bothman]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

Pretty gutsy effort for a Harvard team that dressed 11 forwards and 5 defenseman for the SLU game....and one of those 5 D is a forward....

 

[Veritas]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

Pretty gutsy effort for a Harvard team that dressed 11 forwards and 5 defenseman for the SLU game....and one of those 5 D is a forward....

Bothman -

I concur very pleased with the way they came back to tie it up. Teddy must have lit a fire under them.

By the way, does anyone know what the story is about J. P. Gillmeister (No. 14) who showed up on the program yesterday and today. He did not dress today and I would guess he did not yesterday as I don't recall seeing him on the ice. I would guess he is JV asked to play with the varsity but do not know that.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

Bothman -

I concur very pleased with the way they came back to tie it up. Teddy must have lit a fire under them.

By the way, does anyone know what the story is about J. P. Gillmeister (No. 14) who showed up on the program yesterday and today. He did not dress today and I would guess he did not yesterday as I don't recall seeing him on the ice. I would guess he is JV asked to play with the varsity but do not know that.

I'm guessing that he is a club player that they had to call in because of the injuries and players leaving because of the cheating mess. They don't have much choice at this point. Either dress club players or start forfeiting games. If they lose more players and there is a chance that will happen, this could get really ugly.

Seriously, does anyone think going forward that they will win a game? Look at the schedule. At RPI on Friday, Dartmouth at home the following week, Colgate and Cornell at home and then the closing weekend up in North Country. And that doesn't include the Beanpot which they might as well take a pass on and give the wins to BC and whoever loses the BU/Northeastern game (If BU loses that game, watch out because they will be out for blood after losing at home against us).

I give the kids credit for hanging in there last night but in the end, it's another loss. The kid who scored the winner for SLU is the son of one of my former classmates, George Hughes Sr.

 

[TimU]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

I give the kids credit for hanging in there last night but in the end, it's another loss. The kid who scored the winner for SLU is the son of one of my former classmates, George Hughes Sr.

Credit to both teams. Having been at Friday night's game in Hanover and seen what it took to beat Dartmouth - and with the recent defection of a regular defenseman - I'm sure SLU was dead tired. I'm impressed that they were able to get a hard-fought win in a place that's been tough for them over the years.

Considering what Harvard is going through, I'm even more impressed that they were able to hang in there for 63 minutes, and come from behind multiple times in the game. Good effort all around . . . I'm happy that SLU was rewarded for a great effort all weekend, but it seems like Harvard deserved better.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

Not sure if you have an alumni thread or not, but Alex Killorn is getting some love in this area with his work with the Crunch: http://blog.syracuse.com/crunch/2013/01/post_77.html#incart_river_default

 

[herbst20]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

Some interesting developments regarding Harvard players in the USHL. Apparently Harvard/Ivy league contacted both Cedar Rapids and Omaha on Friday saying if Michalek or Everson played anymore hockey in the USHL they would be jeopardizing their eligibility to play for Harvard next year. Michalek was in Cedar Rapids all weekend but has been taken off the active roster. CR has made a trade for another goalie since.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

Some interesting developments regarding Harvard players in the USHL. Apparently Harvard/Ivy league contacted both Cedar Rapids and Omaha on Friday saying if Michalek or Everson played anymore hockey in the USHL they would be jeopardizing their eligibility to play for Harvard next year. Michalek was in Cedar Rapids all weekend but has been taken off the active roster. CR has made a trade for another goalie since.

How would playing in the USHL be a jeopardy of their eligibility? I thought the biggest selling point of the USHL was that its players remained NCAA eligible.

 

[herbst20]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

I dont know the details of it, but this is what the Cedar Rapids Sports reporter told me. Steve got an email and a call on Friday I believe which told him if he played any futher this year he would not be able to play for Harvard next year. This isnt an NCAA issue from what I told but rather a Harvard/Ivy League rule. I dont know Harvard/Ivy league's rules but I know he is done in CR. Max Everson is done in Omaha as well.

 

[bothman]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

I dont know the details of it, but this is what the Cedar Rapids Sports reporter told me. Steve got an email and a call on Friday I believe which told him if he played any futher this year he would not be able to play for Harvard next year. This isnt an NCAA issue from what I told but rather a Harvard/Ivy League rule. I dont know Harvard/Ivy league's rules but I know he is done in CR. Max Everson is done in Omaha as well.

Very interesting and I wonder if there is some sort of gag order tied to this as well. All Quiet on the Western Front it seems...

 

[4faz]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

Very interesting and I wonder if there is some sort of gag order tied to this as well. All Quiet on the Western Front it seems...

Don't look now but the ice is tilted again in the Beanpot. Target practice of Girard. Outscored 16-1 (or wait, they just scored, 16-2) and counting in the past 4 semi-finals. Only good news is Harvard qualified for the semi-finals and BC didn't score between periods.

Who will stop this senseless slaughter of the Ted Donato era? Academic scandal, injuries -- for a team that was supposed so deep, they should have been able to absorb them and have at least a mediocre season. This team is missing some key players, but there's no excuse for being this awful. Last year I stopped by to say I'd been a long-time advocate of getting rid of Donato -- the first on this board I believe -- who was encouraged by last season but it remained to be seen whether last year was a turnaround or just a team that came together around a fantastic leader in Alex Killorn, arguably the best player since Dominic Moore. I think in this season we have an answer -- he's doing great in the AHL and is a very special player

Let's stop enabling the Donato era with the saga of hard-luck, not-our-Teddy's fault season after season after season. His coaching stretch has been the worst in Harvard history. A few highlights, but much more embarrassment. Yale, Cornell, Quinnipiac... they have real coaches who deliver sometimes excellent but at least competitive teams year after year. Harvard Football, women's hockey, men's basketball -- they have real coaches too. Donato is a woeful unperformer of his peers across college hockey and on campus. He was a hero in the 80s and 90s; I saw him with my own eyes as I was class of 87 That was then, this is now. He's gotta go. He should have been gone a long time ago. Everybody on this board loves this team, and so do I. Which is why I'm going to write the athletic director to call for Donato's resignation (not expecting that to do a lot of good) and why I submit that anyone who loves this team should too. That may not overcome we-love-Teddy-he's-a-Harvard-hockey-hero-you-don't-fire-a-coach-in-the-Ivy League syndrome but it can't hurt at this point. Sorry for the strong and scathing wording, but these kids deserve a better leader and a better experience. But there is still hope... for the women's team tomorrow night.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

Who will stop this senseless slaughter of the Ted Donato era? Academic scandal, injuries -- for a team that was supposed so deep, they should have been able to absorb them and have at least a mediocre season.

Okay, well first, the academic scandal can't be attributed to Donato. He had no control over what the kids were going to do in that class.That one is on the players. Injuries happen but you can't use it as an excuse. The women's team lost their two best D and arguably their second best player in Jo Pucci yet they are in first place in the ECAC and nationally ranked. So it is possible to have success without your top talent if the system and coaching are there. As well team leadership. Women's hockey is different in that you don't have 20 year old incoming freshmen. They are all on a level playing surface with respect to age.

I watched the Beanpot last night up until BC scored its second goal. Truthfully, it was more one-sided than the final score. Men against boys. BC is loaded with kids who are 21, 22, 23 years old and are sophs and juniors. We can't compete effectively against that kind of age difference and you see it on the ice. Our kids are physically less imposing and not as fast or skilled with or without the puck. Girard did the best he could but he was left alone on an island. I lost count of how many times we messed up passes, coughed up the puck and stood around and watched as BC skated circles around us. It was sad really.

I said this when Hockey East was formed in the eighties that eventually, the Ivy League would have to consider going their own way and creating a schedule where they would play teams more in line with their academic standards and recruiting. To continue to play against HE including the Beanpot is a joke. We are not competitive in any way with these schools and it isn't going to change any time soon. I don't think a coaching change will help. Relaxing academic standards and raising the age of incoming frosh is the only way to go if we want to continue to play HE schools. And that simply won't happen especially after this cheating mess.

I get that Yale, Dartmouth and Cornell are competitive to a certain extent with these schools and they may balk at the suggestion to break off entirely. But I just don't see how anyone can seriously feel like we will compete against HE or the WCHA or the Big Ten never mind get an NCAA bid. Just not going to happen within the current environment and Harvard certainly is not going to lower its standards.

 

[joegrav]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

I watched the Beanpot last night up until BC scored its second goal. Truthfully, it was more one-sided than the final score. Men against boys. BC is loaded with kids who are 21, 22, 23 years old and are sophs and juniors. We can't compete effectively against that kind of age difference and you see it on the ice.

O RLY?

Years of birth of roster players

Harvard:
1994: 0
1993 5
1992 8
1991 6
1990 4
1989 1

BC:
1994 3
1993 6
1992 7
1991 3
1990 4
1989 1

Less talented? Yes, but not because of an age difference. Try again.

Honestly Harvard keeps getting pretty good recruits who are NHL draft picks. No idea what happens to them once they fall into the Donato black hole.

Women's hockey is different in that you don't have 20 year old incoming freshmen. They are all on a level playing surface with respect to age.

No, but you have plenty of players who spend an entire year away at the Olympics and come back a year older than everyone else with a full year of pro-style strength and conditioning under their belt.

 

[claver2010]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

I hate when facts get in the way of a good rant

BC is the youngest team in the country and has been for several years running now.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

Okay, well first, the academic scandal can't be attributed to Donato. He had no control over what the kids were going to do in that class.That one is on the players. Injuries happen but you can't use it as an excuse. The women's team lost their two best D and arguably their second best player in Jo Pucci yet they are in first place in the ECAC and nationally ranked. So it is possible to have success without your top talent if the system and coaching are there. As well team leadership. Women's hockey is different in that you don't have 20 year old incoming freshmen. They are all on a level playing surface with respect to age.

I watched the Beanpot last night up until BC scored its second goal. Truthfully, it was more one-sided than the final score. Men against boys. BC is loaded with kids who are 21, 22, 23 years old and are sophs and juniors. We can't compete effectively against that kind of age difference and you see it on the ice. Our kids are physically less imposing and not as fast or skilled with or without the puck. Girard did the best he could but he was left alone on an island. I lost count of how many times we messed up passes, coughed up the puck and stood around and watched as BC skated circles around us. It was sad really.

I said this when Hockey East was formed in the eighties that eventually, the Ivy League would have to consider going their own way and creating a schedule where they would play teams more in line with their academic standards and recruiting. To continue to play against HE including the Beanpot is a joke. We are not competitive in any way with these schools and it isn't going to change any time soon. I don't think a coaching change will help. Relaxing academic standards and raising the age of incoming frosh is the only way to go if we want to continue to play HE schools. And that simply won't happen especially after this cheating mess.

I get that Yale, Dartmouth and Cornell are competitive to a certain extent with these schools and they may balk at the suggestion to break off entirely. But I just don't see how anyone can seriously feel like we will compete against HE or the WCHA or the Big Ten never mind get an NCAA bid. Just not going to happen within the current environment and Harvard certainly is not going to lower its standards.

Harvard gets its share or more of NHL draft choices. Granted that there are many hockey players who could not be admitted, but Harvard has a leg up on other schools for those who are qualified. For whatever reason, it appears that Harvard has had problems with coaches since Cleary retired. Even after the scandal, Harvard had the talent to compete in the ECAC, but they seem to have lost motivation. The difference between their play against RPI in Cambridge and Troy (the games that I watched or listened to) was immense. Some of it was due to RPI improving, but I think more was on Harvard's end.

I do wish that the NCAA would stop allowing 20-year or older freshmen. I always cringe when incoming freshmen are older than I was when I graduated (20 years, 5 months), and it happens often.

As to the Ivies forming their own league, we have heard that since the 1980s, but at that time only Cornell and Harvard competed on a level with the non-Ivies. The other four have improved a lot in the interim. Most every year now, the six Ivies have a better than .500 composite record vs. the six non-Ivies. If there has been a lessening of the talent level at Harvard, it has been more that they losing players to the other Ivies than to HE schools.

 

[joegrav]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

Harvard gets its share or more of NHL draft choices. Granted that there are many hockey players who could not be admitted, but Harvard has a leg up on other schools for those who are qualified. For whatever reason, it appears that Harvard has had problems with coaches since Cleary retired. Even after the scandal, Harvard had the talent to compete in the ECAC, but they seem to have lost motivation. The difference between their play against RPI in Cambridge and Troy (the games that I watched or listened to) was immense. Some of it was due to RPI improving, but I think more was on Harvard's end.

I do wish that the NCAA would stop allowing 20-year or older freshmen. I always cringe when incoming freshmen are older than I was when I graduated (20 years, 5 months), and it happens often.

As to the Ivies forming their own league, we have heard that since the 1980s, but at that time only Cornell and Harvard competed on a level with the non-Ivies. The other four have improved a lot in the interim. Most every year now, the six Ivies have a better than .500 composite record vs. the six non-Ivies. If there has been a lessening of the talent level at Harvard, it has been more that they losing players to the other Ivies than to HE schools.

I agree with most of what you said. I kind of think it would be good to see the Ivys break away if only because it would create an ECAC with room for growth should more schools decide to add hockey in the future (or a place for programs like Holy Cross and Bentley to step up their level of competitiveness). Kind of wishful thinking on my part though as I don't see much expansion on the horizon.

 

[northeastern]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

I have been lucky enough to catch both.. a Yale practice & H..
has any of you ever seen the Eli practice?.. not even going to get into the off ice..
sorry Crimson, (nothing against Donato, he was a special player).. it's the Coaching.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

I agree with most of what you said. I kind of think it would be good to see the Ivys break away if only because it would create an ECAC with room for growth should more schools decide to add hockey in the future (or a place for programs like Holy Cross and Bentley to step up their level of competitiveness). Kind of wishful thinking on my part though as I don't see much expansion on the horizon.

The six-non-Ivy ECAC schools would have trouble staying afloat. Four of them are D-III schools. HC would probably like to join them, but IIRC when Vermont left the ECAC they applied but were ruled out due to their rink. Is Bentley any better? One who would probably be interested is RIT.

 

[northeastern]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

I have been lucky enough to catch both.. a Yale practice & H..
has any of you ever seen the Eli practice?.. not even going to get into the off ice..
sorry Crimson, (nothing against Donato, he was a special player).. it's the Coaching.

..oh, and i might add (scandal aside) you have the players. Talented players.

 

[bothman]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

Harvard has been decimated by injuries and the scandal, particularly on the blue line. Let's put things into perspective:
1) Harvard had to play a player from its club team on D a few weeks ago
2) Of Harvard's Top 6 D right now, one is a freshman forward (Jaw) and one is a walk on forward (Caldwell)

What am I saying? There is a significant talent disparity right now between Harvard and its opponents. Harvard has lost 4 of its Top 8 defenseman.

Harvard had a pretty good season last year and prior to the injuries, was on track for a good year this year. It's absolutely amazing that Harvard beat BU a few weeks back.

Has Harvard responded to this adversity as well as it could? Of course not. But let's not over-react and start making assumptions based on watching one Yale practice and one Harvard practice. I'm sure that the practices reflect the personalities of the coaches.

 

[northeastern]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

I'm sure that the practices reflect the personalities of the coaches.

..on this you are right on.
Landscape has changed.. Teddy has become 'comfortable'..
Anyway, have the same fears with Madigan at Northeastern & he has only been at the helm couple years.. but in a way.. been there forever.