Terrierbyassociation
Fight Cancer, Wherever You Find It
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010
I think the law is that they will have to pay for the clean-up etc.
I think the law is that they will have to pay for the clean-up etc.
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Gulf Oil Spill 2010
- Thread starter bronconick
- Start date
bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010
I could see nuclear taking over some of the larger energy stuff in the next fifty years, especially if they ever make progress on fusion, but it'll have to be something different for transport. A nuke plant supplying power to part of a city is one thing. People driving around mini-nuke car engines..no.
I could see nuclear taking over some of the larger energy stuff in the next fifty years, especially if they ever make progress on fusion, but it'll have to be something different for transport. A nuke plant supplying power to part of a city is one thing. People driving around mini-nuke car engines..no.
Terrierbyassociation
Fight Cancer, Wherever You Find It
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010
You had me until gender studies. Are you fricken serious? You completely destroyed your credibility. The subsidies for farming are much larger than those given to gender studies.
It's not like we spend money on subsidies for farming like we do for defense, but it's not like we spend money on gender studies like we do for farming.
You had me until gender studies. Are you fricken serious? You completely destroyed your credibility. The subsidies for farming are much larger than those given to gender studies.
It's not like we spend money on subsidies for farming like we do for defense, but it's not like we spend money on gender studies like we do for farming.
bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010
The 1990 Oil Pollution Act, apparently.
There's a couple outs, but it doesn't sound like any of them will apply.
The 1990 Oil Pollution Act, apparently.
There's a couple outs, but it doesn't sound like any of them will apply.
MinnesotaNorthStar
Minding the gap
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010
They'll pass it on to the consumer by raising prices...
Yeah, they'll write the check...but that's not what Handy's point was...
They'll pass it on to the consumer by raising prices...
unh_hockey
pain is temporary pride is forever
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010
nuclear certainly offers a solution when it comes to the grid, but Oil will always be king for transpiration ( 95% of the sector is oil). Algenaol has developed a algae derived biofuel which can be used in planes, so at least there is some ground for alternative fuels. pretty cool stuff, but still much more expensive to make than to drill.
Exxon has about 600 million into this technology, others like BP have less...
nuclear certainly offers a solution when it comes to the grid, but Oil will always be king for transpiration ( 95% of the sector is oil). Algenaol has developed a algae derived biofuel which can be used in planes, so at least there is some ground for alternative fuels. pretty cool stuff, but still much more expensive to make than to drill.
Exxon has about 600 million into this technology, others like BP have less...
unh_hockey
pain is temporary pride is forever
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010
I didn't compare sizes, nor do I feel like digging them up right now. But there are a lot of dumb solicitation opportunities out there - that was my point.
I didn't compare sizes, nor do I feel like digging them up right now. But there are a lot of dumb solicitation opportunities out there - that was my point.
WeWantMore
New member
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010
Well, if the consumer is outraged about it, they could start by boycotting BP gas.
Well, if the consumer is outraged about it, they could start by boycotting BP gas.
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010
Better to take the pain now than to wait for the market to push gas to $10 a gallon.
This also belies the fact that we could use the oil we have far more efficiently than we do.
Oil is truly a remarkable resource, it's a shame we waste it so needlessly.
And that's just the dynamics of oil supply and demand, to say nothing about the need to reduce hydrocarbon use in order to reduce GHG emissions...
Better to take the pain now than to wait for the market to push gas to $10 a gallon.
This also belies the fact that we could use the oil we have far more efficiently than we do.
Oil is truly a remarkable resource, it's a shame we waste it so needlessly.
And that's just the dynamics of oil supply and demand, to say nothing about the need to reduce hydrocarbon use in order to reduce GHG emissions...
Terrierbyassociation
Fight Cancer, Wherever You Find It
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010
I know that certain people will respond with the fears that this will turn into an Exxon situation, in that the company will try to weasel out of as much responsibility as they can.
I know that certain people will respond with the fears that this will turn into an Exxon situation, in that the company will try to weasel out of as much responsibility as they can.
Foxton
Banned
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010
Indeed, waiting till the world grinds to a halt because no one can afford to put gas in their vehicles is certainly not the time to finally decide "hey we need to think about alternatives".
Patman
Rodent of Unusual Size
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010
Thank you for reminding me of your true colors. It'd be better if we actually worked towards solutions than force them on others to make you feel better. Why is it that you seem to be OK with the idea of compelling solutions upon others. To me that's an incredibly frightening ideology. With you I know that its an encompassing ideology as I know you've remarked on the need for compacting our cities and an entire string of ideas that you WILL have to force on others to get them done.
You can do that now. Nobody is stopping you.
Thank you for reminding me of your true colors. It'd be better if we actually worked towards solutions than force them on others to make you feel better. Why is it that you seem to be OK with the idea of compelling solutions upon others. To me that's an incredibly frightening ideology. With you I know that its an encompassing ideology as I know you've remarked on the need for compacting our cities and an entire string of ideas that you WILL have to force on others to get them done.
You can do that now. Nobody is stopping you.
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unh_hockey
pain is temporary pride is forever
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010
Oh I agree its better to take the pain now, but humans won't take the path of most resistance as a group - aka not driving, staying on the grid. I think you hit it on the head when you mentioned efficiency...let our engineers and scientists work on this so as to improve how much we can extract from oil.
Carbon neutral fuels are interesting. Sequester CO2, and burn it so the process is neutral. We still have a long ways to go there though.
Oh I agree its better to take the pain now, but humans won't take the path of most resistance as a group - aka not driving, staying on the grid. I think you hit it on the head when you mentioned efficiency...let our engineers and scientists work on this so as to improve how much we can extract from oil.
Carbon neutral fuels are interesting. Sequester CO2, and burn it so the process is neutral. We still have a long ways to go there though.
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010
Wait, what?
Let's get one thing straight - our current dependence on oil isn't some magical manifestation of the free market, it is a direct result of a long series of public policies that tile the market in favor of the current outcome.
So, if you want to run with a plan of "working towards solutions" and other vapid phrases like that, be my guest.
I'm just glad that my city doesn't require a car to get around - it should be positioned quite well to handle gas price spikes. I have a funny feeling that when gas prices do increase, that this kind of lifestyle will suddenly look a lot more attractive. I guess the market has kinda a funny way of "compelling solutions" like that.
Wait, what?
Let's get one thing straight - our current dependence on oil isn't some magical manifestation of the free market, it is a direct result of a long series of public policies that tile the market in favor of the current outcome.
So, if you want to run with a plan of "working towards solutions" and other vapid phrases like that, be my guest.
I'm just glad that my city doesn't require a car to get around - it should be positioned quite well to handle gas price spikes. I have a funny feeling that when gas prices do increase, that this kind of lifestyle will suddenly look a lot more attractive. I guess the market has kinda a funny way of "compelling solutions" like that.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010
Yeah, and what do you want to bet they will hike up their gas price to offset this? That is sort of the point I am making. They will pay, but they will lose nothing.
Thankfully I never go to BP so it wont bug me much
Yeah, and what do you want to bet they will hike up their gas price to offset this? That is sort of the point I am making. They will pay, but they will lose nothing.
Thankfully I never go to BP so it wont bug me much
walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010
How are you going to do that, they thruput every brand of gas through their terminals as do all the rest of the oil companies. You want to boycott them you best stop buying gas, period
How are you going to do that, they thruput every brand of gas through their terminals as do all the rest of the oil companies. You want to boycott them you best stop buying gas, period
Patman
Rodent of Unusual Size
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010
ok then... then lets remove the subsidies for this or that and let the natural solution win out. What you're saying is that we should INTENTIONALLY make gas $10 a gallon which will cripple our society and our nation for a direct measure of social control... any "solution" that would come from the $10 a gallon gas would still be 15 years down the road.
Meanwhile we already have some tools, though not many, which would reduce our load on costs. Nuclear power would do it... loosening safety standards on cars down to Euro levels would make the cars weigh less and thus more MPG. Minor solutions sure... but they do a lot more than the stuff we dawdle on about.
Funny though... I don't remember much people who are in favor of 10 dollar gas being also in favor of letting the banks fail which would have had a severe impact, last nowhere near as long, and leave us better economically in the long run.
Bottom line though, you've promoted various ideas that come within a particular way societies should be organized. As far as I can tell its focused on compact, organized, mega-cities focused entirely upon urban culture and the rest of the nation is then to be networked by a rail system. This whole process is not a small thing with small costs... its a national system upheaval. It seems to me that this solution is to be dictated once one has the political gears in place as opposed to be argued with the population. I don't trust that. I won't apologize for acting in that way.
ok then... then lets remove the subsidies for this or that and let the natural solution win out. What you're saying is that we should INTENTIONALLY make gas $10 a gallon which will cripple our society and our nation for a direct measure of social control... any "solution" that would come from the $10 a gallon gas would still be 15 years down the road.
Meanwhile we already have some tools, though not many, which would reduce our load on costs. Nuclear power would do it... loosening safety standards on cars down to Euro levels would make the cars weigh less and thus more MPG. Minor solutions sure... but they do a lot more than the stuff we dawdle on about.
Funny though... I don't remember much people who are in favor of 10 dollar gas being also in favor of letting the banks fail which would have had a severe impact, last nowhere near as long, and leave us better economically in the long run.
Bottom line though, you've promoted various ideas that come within a particular way societies should be organized. As far as I can tell its focused on compact, organized, mega-cities focused entirely upon urban culture and the rest of the nation is then to be networked by a rail system. This whole process is not a small thing with small costs... its a national system upheaval. It seems to me that this solution is to be dictated once one has the political gears in place as opposed to be argued with the population. I don't trust that. I won't apologize for acting in that way.
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010
This isn't Sid Meier's "Public Policy IV." We can't revert to a prior save point and experiment with an alternative future. The subsidies that blockski refers to have been made over the course of a century, and can't be undone easily (if at all).
Sometimes you need a little shock to get things moving in a different direction. Dow and DuPont screamed when the U.S. threatened to ban use of chlorofluorocarbons. There were no cost effective substitutes. Regulation would be crippling. It was imposed anyway. Provided with sufficient incentive, the U.S. chemical industry innovated, found substitutes, and later advocated for internationalization of CFC regulation, since they were first to market with substitutes.
Innovation won't happen as long as the status quo is comfortable enough. $10/gal may be a bit extreme, but the underlying logic is not wrong.
This isn't Sid Meier's "Public Policy IV." We can't revert to a prior save point and experiment with an alternative future. The subsidies that blockski refers to have been made over the course of a century, and can't be undone easily (if at all).
Sometimes you need a little shock to get things moving in a different direction. Dow and DuPont screamed when the U.S. threatened to ban use of chlorofluorocarbons. There were no cost effective substitutes. Regulation would be crippling. It was imposed anyway. Provided with sufficient incentive, the U.S. chemical industry innovated, found substitutes, and later advocated for internationalization of CFC regulation, since they were first to market with substitutes.
Innovation won't happen as long as the status quo is comfortable enough. $10/gal may be a bit extreme, but the underlying logic is not wrong.
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WeWantMore
New member
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010
So, you're saying that BP won't feel any impact at all if people choose to go to Mobil stations instead of BP?
So, you're saying that BP won't feel any impact at all if people choose to go to Mobil stations instead of BP?
Hammer
We'll be back.
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010
For the most part, that would be correct. BP would just sell some of their gas to Mobil. All of this stuff is fungible for the most part. You and your friends not buying gas at BP is the equivalent of a rain drop in the middle of the ocean. The only person you're truly hurting is your local BP franchise owners.
For the most part, that would be correct. BP would just sell some of their gas to Mobil. All of this stuff is fungible for the most part. You and your friends not buying gas at BP is the equivalent of a rain drop in the middle of the ocean. The only person you're truly hurting is your local BP franchise owners.