Grand Unified Election Thread 2: What is the difference between Biden and Dump?

[SJHovey]

I can't possibly agree with that, as there's no way I can give them the benefit of the doubt about how smart they are. All I can give them "smarts" was a weekend warrior mentality to pretend that they were tough and could fight our government similar to Red Dawn.

Yeah, I agree. When I read Kep's post about THE PLAN, this immediately popped into my head.

 

[Kepler]

I can't possibly agree with that, as there's no way I can give them the benefit of the doubt about how smart they are. All I can give them "smarts" was a weekend warrior mentality to pretend that they were tough and could fight our government similar to Red Dawn.

The shirts were to enrage people, and the engagement was to "actually" over throw stuff. The whole ANTIFA line came when they failed their hard goals of stopping the process.

It doesn't imply much smarts. The planners have been planning for a long time -- this has been the right wing wet dream since at least the John Birchers in the 1950s and probably all the way back to butthurt Confederates in the 1870s. And the body of "Coup Theory" is enormous and pervasive, from wild dreamy stuff drawn up by Marxists to methodical, Rand Corporation studies drafted on behalf of a certain TLA.

Then it's Mad Libs plug and play for: (1) year and country: 2020 USA, (2) target: USG, (3) short trigger: "election fraud," (4) long grievance: culture war

c.f.

2011 Egypt / Mubarak / Internet Suspension / Dictatorship

1917 Russia / Kerensky Directorate / Kornilov Affair / Democratic socialist betrayal of communism

1789 France / Ancien Regime / Food shortages / Political and economic inequality



A wave of martyrs is a powerful propaganda device, and here Rush and Newt and Hannity had radicalized millions of derps over two generations just waiting to Serve The Cause.

 

[Drew S.]

I'm not arguing against prosecution, or for leniency for any of them. If they committed a crime that we can prove, let's do it. I'm was just saying that I don't think 5000 people got on a plane thinking that they were going to break into the Capitol, seize Pence and Pelosi and hang them from the nearest yardarm. If you join a mob, be prepared for the consequences. Mobs rarely make good decisions.

I think me, you, and Kepler are all more or less saying the same thing. None of us know all the details right now but it’s pretty clear there were two distinct groups.

 

[Kepler]

I'm not arguing against prosecution, or for leniency for any of them. If they committed a crime that we can prove, let's do it. I'm was just saying that I don't think 5000 people got on a plane thinking that they were going to break into the Capitol, seize Pence and Pelosi and hang them from the nearest yardarm.

That would have taken care of the problem.

The nearest yardarm is in Anacostia.

Hey, white boy, what you doin' uptown?
Hey, white boy, you chasin' our women around?

 

[Handyman]

We need to talk about Steve Guttenberg.

Is it about how he has been robbed of multiple Oscars? Kennedy Center Honors? The man is a treasure!

 

[Kepler]

I think me, you, and Kepler are all more or less saying the same thing. None of us know all the details right now but it’s pretty clear there were two distinct groups.

Yes.

The tards we throw in the jug.

The tards who actually hurt somebody we send to prison for a reasonable length of time. Let's say, the median sentence for a black man inflicting the same amount of damage on a white suburbanite.

The leaders we execute.

 

[Handyman]

This is my own assessment, right or wrong.

I'd guess that out of every 1000 people who attended that rally and then walked down to the Capitol, probably 975 of them were people, if you asked them two weeks ago whether they could ever see themselves as part of a mob that would break into the locked Capitol building for purposes of seizing the VP and Speaker, their response would be something like, "What are you talking about???"

But maybe 25 out of each 1000 probably did believe they were going to be able to do exactly what you suggested. These were the idiots clearly identified by the dead raccoons on their head carrying spears, etc... Those people live in a bizarre fantasy world that physically looks a lot like their mom's basement, but in their minds is some sort of Call of Duty world. How they got that point is anybody's guess, and probably has as many different variations as there are people.

You put people into a mob, people are going to make decisions and do things they never would have dreamed of doing on their own 24 hours before. Between Trump and the other speakers winding them up, the 100 or so idiots who showed up for war, and the frenzy of the mob, it's very easy to see how it could happen even though to someone watching from afar the only reaction is, "what are these people thinking?"

You are underestimating the morons (there is a reason Cons are whining about losing 70k followers and it wasnt just bots) and a lot of the "sane" ones are still followers of conspiracies they just wouldnt want a violent overthrow. Otherwise this is absolutely true. Mob hysteria is a thing it happens a lot in riots. People get caught up...

That said it excuses nothing. (not that you were saying it does) I believe some in the LA Riots in 94 tried using that defense and it is bunk. You dont lose your ability to ascertain right from wrong just because hundreds around you are going crazy.

I think a lot of people thought they could go to the capitol and pressure them to stall the vote. I will go out on a limb and say most of them have no clue how any of this works all they know is what they are told. Even the ones who didn't want violence like we saw still believe Biden is a criminal who stole the election. They wanted to stop that. When others started breaking stuff to storm the capitol they saw it as their chance to get inside and really stop the count. They were just less violent morons but criminals nonetheless. The sad thing is if they had just read the Constitution they pretend to love so much they would have known this was stupid. If they had just done some rather simple math they would have known none of what they were crying about made any sense.

The ultimate problem though is that even after the fact they showed zero remorse. That is why they get zero benefit of the doubt. If they got caught up in something that went too far they would be crushed by guilt. People died. Cops were assaulted. They were just caught on International TV committing an act of sedition whether they wanted to or not. If they didn't think it was A) justified and B) fun to be a part of they would have been freaking out once the adrenaline died down. They stuck around DC and partied. They posted videos and pictures talking about how great it was. they bragged about it days later when they got home. Even when they were arrested they had no clue what they had done wrong. When you think you are part of something righteous the ends always justify the means.

The sad thing is they still don't realize all they did was screw themselves, their cause and put thousands in danger. And for what? Donald Trump? At least the Floyd riots all summer were for a cause of racial and social justice. This was just White People mad they aren't getting their way. They still don't even realize they were being used as a distraction.

 

[Handyman]

I have a rule of thumb:

If I see someone with a camp auschwitz hoodie at something I’m participating in, I leave immediately and take a week off to re-evaluate my life’s decisions.

If I see that...I do the same evaluating...from jail.

I am not a collaborator or a kapo (Jewish guards in camps) like Ben Shapiro and Mark Levin...

 

[rufus]

Yes.

They honestly believe that what Schumer, Pelosi, AOC, and Bernie are doing every day is the real crime. Trump is their savior.

And they are patriots, just like the founding fathers.

 

[Handyman]

Naa, MAGAts are too cowardly to be suicide bombers. Just like their dear leader didn't have the courage to actually march with them to the Capitol building, instead retreating to his bunkers in the White House. The plan for the people in there who were active participants in the parts of the coup that failed clearly had them coming out, triumphant, and with either hostages or confirmed kills.

Yep. These are the weakest of the weak. They aren't dying for a cause if they were they would have bum rushed the cops after the lady got shot. These were violent minded people not peaceful protestors yet the old ladies in the Floyd riots showed more backbone when challenged.

They weren't expecting any real resistance, they figured as White People with a threatening look they could get inside sooner or later. They were right. None of them had the guts to die for the cause except the one who did...and in reality she died from stupidity and the world is better for it.

 

[Kepler]

I think Hovey is right about premeditation. But think about how those people have been wound by 30 years of radicalization via right wing crackpot media. They believe a lot of truly stupid, insane stuff -- stuff which if you believe it you are not going to stop at violence to fix.

Thing is, if I sincerely believed the Columbian Party was murdering millions of babies a year, or in league with shape-shifting aliens, or running pedophilia rings, and that our government and LEO were not arresting them not because it wasn't true but because they were in on it, then I would be at least prepared to contemplate violence to make it stop. When you hear about the Holocaust you want to stop the Nazis.

The Right as a whole has been radicalized to the point where they are armed and dangerous. They live in a literal alternate fact universe where ridiculous lies are accepted face value as truth and in which anyone who refutes them is immediately branded an enemy and existential threat.

Every one of those protestors, by virtue of that he believed in this stuff strongly enough to go to DC, had already been primed to be a terrorist. As 74 million still are who stayed in their warm beds. This time.

We have a big problem and non-insane and non-stupid cons have to start facing reality.

 

[cF[Authentic]]

The tards we throw in the jug.

The tards who actually hurt somebody we send to prison for a reasonable length of time.

Removing the "re" from the beginning of the word doesn't make it less of a slur.

 

[rufus]

I have a rule of thumb:

If I see someone with a camp auschwitz hoodie at something I’m participating in, I leave immediately and take a week off to re-evaluate my life’s decisions.

This was shared by a buddy of mine on Facebook. Pretty good way to judge if you're making good life decisions.

“Huge numbers of our population believe in a complete alternate reality. Alternate facts as it were.
But just as intensely as I believe they are deluded, they think I am the one who is deluded. Maybe I am. So how can I be confident in my perception? It can be quite difficult.
But, I have found that in times of political confusion, particularly when emotions are running high and creating tunnel vision, the presence of Nazis can be an extremely helpful indicator.
If I am attending a local demonstration or event and I see Nazis…neo-Nazis, casual Nazis, master race Nazis, or the latest-whatever-uber-mythology-Nazis, I figure out which side they are on.
And if they are on my side of the demonstration? I am on the wrong side.
It is tough to argue moral equivalence when I am standing next to a Nazi. Look to my right. Is there a guy wearing a 6MWE (6 million wasn’t enough) t-shirt? I am on the wrong side. Look to my left. Is that guy wearing a Camp Auschwitz hoodie? Wrong side. Are Speakers being applauded for referring to things that Hitler got right? Wrong side.
Team-spirit face paint and hat with animal horns? This is actually an unclear indicator that could mean anything, but safest to keep my distance from that guy anyway, even at a football game.
However, I can always, always, always rely on the presence of Nazis as a guiding light through a fog of disinformation.
Some things are relative, and politics can absolutely have it’s opposing sides and grey areas. But evil and good are absolute. As are the lessons of history. So, just look for the Nazis, and make your own decisions.”

 

[Kepler]

;n3633615]

Removing the "re" from the beginning of the word doesn't make it less of a slur.

Well then let's call them cowards. Hitherto, conservatives were referred to in this space as tards. Henceforth, they will be referred to as cowards.

 

[rufus]

Well, factually they did participate, so they're certainly complicit. I guess what I was trying to convey is that in answer to Swan's question, I think that a small percentage of those people who traveled to D.C. did actually think they were going to storm the Capitol and take over the government, but it was a very small percent. The rest thought they were going to a protest rally. But between the words of the speakers and the actions of the few Call of Duty types, it didn't take long for mob mentality to take over and in they went.

So much for the Party of Personal Responsibility.

"I was just going along with the crowd"

Sounds familiar.

"I was just following orders"

 

[Handyman]

My theory. The Plan was provoke massive carnage, involve (or blame) Antifa, and have Dump effectively suspend the Constitution while claiming to be protecting it while the Republican party gives political cover and elements in the military and law enforcement hold the power of coercion. That's how coups happen.

Now, this strategy needs major casualties to feed fear of left wing terrorism in all those red counties. That strongly implies the initial wave of DC rioters needs to be cut down in a violent clash with local police, adversarial protesters, and even troops. They were sacrificial dupes. Which, obviously, they were not told.

So there were two levels to this, at least. The dopey Timothy McVeigh guys we all saw on the news were supposed to get slaughtered by the Big Bad (OH NOES TEH SOCIALISTS!!!11! or The State or The Globalists of whatever idiocy the right is pooting this week). Then the command and control level of guys like Cruz and Hawley and guys we'll never hear of unless there is a thorough investigation (cough FedSoc). There is an implied third level: derps like Gaetz and Goser and Susie Q and, for that matter, Dump, preened as the brain trust but were public-facing cattle to shove in front of cameras and absorb the heat if things went sideways.

Which, happily for the world, they did.

But The Plan was sound. The Plan could have worked.

If they hadn't openly discussed the plan on every social media platform for weeks they probably get away with it. That is why every liberal organization was blasting on repeat for counter protestors to stay home.

And the GOPers knew it too, it is why it took all of a couple hours for them to have their "Antifa Talking Points" at the ready. Laura Goebbels was asking McCarthy about it that night. Mo Brooks was tweeting about it either during or right after the vote. (fascist Antifa...the all new original!!) It didnt play out the way it was supposed to because BLM and the liberals are smarter than the Boogaloo Boys who joined in the Floyd protests. (who also openly bragged about it)

 

[Jimjamesak]

It’s becoming clearer and clearer every day that there was an organized plan to take members of Congress hostage and force them to throw out enough electoral votes to get a Trump win. We just got really lucky at few spots (like that officer leading the mob away from the Senate chambers). Pelosi and Pence were likely supposed to go the gallows, the rest in zip ties and forced at gunpoint. Not every member of the mob was knowingly part of the plan, but were part of the plan nonetheless.

 

[Kepler]

So much for the Party of Personal Responsibility.

"I was just going along with the crowd"

Sounds familiar.

"I was just following orders"

That's not what he said. Hovey has specifically said it does not lessen their guilt and if you join a mob be prepared to do the time.

 

[Kepler]

It’s becoming clearer and clearer every day that there was an organized plan to take members of Congress hostage and force them to throw out enough electoral votes to get a Trump win. We just got really lucky at few spots (like that officer leading the mob away from the Senate chambers). Pelosi and Pence were likely supposed to go the gallows, the rest in zip ties and forced at gunpoint. Not every member of the mob was knowingly part of the plan, but were part of the plan nonetheless.

Yes. This has been building since Bork. It is as old as the entire modern conservative movement which, stripped of it's Useful Idiot purpose as a fig leaf covering the theft of our national wealth by the rich, has been little more than a nativist, racist, fundamentalist pity party with violent fantasies.

 

[Kepler]

If they hadn't openly discussed the plan on every social media platform for weeks they probably get away with it.

First rule of Fight Club.

We are so lucky they are so dumb.