Grand Unified Election Thread 2: What is the difference between Biden and Dump?

[BassAle]

Fixing the Senate means adding DC, maybe PR,

Adding DC isn't going to happen. Too hard to address the 23rd amendment. PR would have been possible given the November 2020 referendum results (both democrat and republican platforms have included PR statehood, if PR votes for it, in recent history) but Trump's hatred for PR that has probably rubbed off onto the GOP at large and there are only 2 current GOP senators are on record for supporting statehood (I was wrong about the Zodiac Killer, he isn't on board). The Trump sycophants will oppose and Turtle Boy will filibuster.

 

[Kepler]

I gave Warnock a 50% chance and Ossoff a 10% to win. Good thing I don’t do that for a living. It made intuitive sense for Warnock to win more votes than Ossoff, but not significantly more votes to where Ossoff was this safe too.

You were right to view Warnock as a better bid than Ossoff. He won by at least 2x as big a margin.

I believe your odds were perfect for the day after the general election. Then Dump did his thang, and Loeffler was Extreme Loeffler, and Perdue's criminality became more and more obvious.

 

[Kepler]

Adding DC isn't going to happen. Too hard to address the 23rd amendment.

That's not a problem at all. We redefine DC to be the Mall and the major political buildings. Make the rest a new state, named of course Obama. Easy peasy.

The actual problem is Hamilton's:

Get past that (no small task) and there is no procedural problem.

 

[BassAle]

That's not a problem at all. We redefine DC to be the Mall and the major political buildings. Make the rest a new state. Easy peasy.

The actual problem is Hamilton's:

Get past that (no small task) and there is no procedural problem.

Per the 23rd amendment, the district would still be entitled to 3 electoral votes. I'm assuming the only residents would be the occupants of the White House. Nothing would stop one or more members of the presidential household declaring the district as their residence for voter registration purposes, right?

 

[JF_Gophers]

It would be kind of hilarious if dems objected to all trump states just to waste time. But they dont want to be there for 4 days either.

 

[MichVandal]

I think the Filibuster gets retired in the next couple years.

As to Peurto Rico, the island vacillates between wanting to become a state or breaking away from the US entirely. I don't really know which would be better for them.

Having close ties to Puerto Rico- just want to comment on that- they are not vacillating between statehood and independence- they vacillate between statehood and status quo- which is a associated state to the US, meaning they don't get the economic benefit of being a state, but they get international recognition separate from the US in many aspects.

If we get rid of the rather protective shipping acts, so that Puerto Rico can directly trade with the entire region, they would be MUCH better off, and probably would just keep the status. As it is, they will sacrifice having a Miss Universe and an Olympic team to get the economy back on track. (and yes, those are really huge deals). Their individual culture is a very, very, very big deal.

What really messes up the equation are the Puerto Rican who live in the main US, get the benefits of being represented, etc- but want to keep PR the status quo. I have more than one friend who is that.

That being said, I think they will want to become a state. The laws that are specifically holding them back is making it impossible- like much of the federal payments have been fixed (not adjusted for inflation) since the 80s. It's a pretty unsustainable position for those who can't leave the island. And it's a major reason we have no plans on retiring there.

edit- BTW, the fear of Puerto Rico by the R's is self inflicted based on their racial hate. Seeing who runs the island, they are roughly 50% liberal and 50% conservative. Just like the mainland. For the very near future, until the racists are purged from the party, they will never get support in PR. But if the racist ever figure that out, they can get a lot of the minorities.

 

[Kepler]

Per the 23rd amendment, the district would still be entitled to 3 electoral votes. I'm assuming the only residents would be the occupants of the White House. Nothing would stop one or more members of the presidential household declaring the district as their residence for voter registration purposes, right?

I hadn't thought of that. We would have to make DC have legally zero population.

Or give those 3 EV to Dave Chapelle, Stephen Colbert, and Duke Ellington.

 

[BassAle]

It's not a problem unless you don't want to give the occupants of the White House the same influence in the presidential election as the state of Vermont:

https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/f...2019_final.pdf

Third, H.R. 51/S. 631 is not at odds with Twenty-Third Amendment, which provides the District with three electoral votes. While the Twenty-Third Amendment raises important policy considerations (e.g., the provision of three electoral votes to a small number of residents in the remaining District, including the President and their family), it does not render H.R. 51/S. 631 unconstitutional, as it prescribes neither a particular form nor population for the District.

 

[dxmnkd316]

The best part about taking the Senate, is we no longer have to fight a nebulous "Republican" monster when trying to club people with bills. We can now force them to put their names to votes and pick them off one by one.

$2,000 checks. Make Murkowski, Johnson, Rubio, Grassley, Burr, and Scott explain why their constituents didn't deserve checks but tax cuts for trillion-dollar companies and billionaires were ok.
$15 min wage. Make them defend not giving a raise to their constituents while they give away cash to billionaires.
Legalized marijuana.
John Lewis VRA - Have fun with this Burr and Scott
Student loan forgiveness
ERA - Good luck to Murkowski on this one.

The list goes on. Pick them off, one by one, and all of a sudden, 2022 becomes fairly enticing to start ramming through the heavy stuff.

Edit, nm on Burr, he's retiring too.

 

[BassAle]

I hadn't thought of that. We would have to make DC have legally zero population.

I guess it would probably be easier to just split off a new state (since creating a new state is easier than amending the constitution), and then there probably would be overwhelming support to amend the constitution to take away the three electoral votes from the occupants of the Whitehouse.

 

[psych]

Merrick Garland for AG.

 

[Kepler]

The best part about taking the Senate, is we no longer have to fight a nebulous "Republican" monster when trying to club people with bills. We can now force them to put their names to votes and pick them off one by one.

Good point. The way the Nazis got their way before was imply not to bring things to the floor. Welp, now there will be bills. And votes. So fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck you, Republicans!

 

[dxmnkd316]

Per the 23rd amendment, the district would still be entitled to 3 electoral votes. I'm assuming the only residents would be the occupants of the White House. Nothing would stop one or more members of the presidential household declaring the district as their residence for voter registration purposes, right?

So, they at least get a pair of Senators and that's fine.

 

[St. Clown]

Having close ties to Puerto Rico- just want to comment on that- they are not vacillating between statehood and independence- they vacillate between statehood and status quo- which is a associated state to the US, meaning they don't get the economic benefit of being a state, but they get international recognition separate from the US in many aspects.

If we get rid of the rather protective shipping acts, so that Puerto Rico can directly trade with the entire region, they would be MUCH better off, and probably would just keep the status. As it is, they will sacrifice having a Miss Universe and an Olympic team to get the economy back on track. (and yes, those are really huge deals). Their individual culture is a very, very, very big deal.

What really messes up the equation are the Puerto Rican who live in the main US, get the benefits of being represented, etc- but want to keep PR the status quo. I have more than one friend who is that.

That being said, I think they will want to become a state. The laws that are specifically holding them back is making it impossible- like much of the federal payments have been fixed (not adjusted for inflation) since the 80s. It's a pretty unsustainable position for those who can't leave the island. And it's a major reason we have no plans on retiring there.

edit- BTW, the fear of Puerto Rico by the R's is self inflicted based on their racial hate. Seeing who runs the island, they are roughly 50% liberal and 50% conservative. Just like the mainland. For the very near future, until the racists are purged from the party, they will never get support in PR. But if the racist ever figure that out, they can get a lot of the minorities.

You certainly know about the whole situation much more than I do. It looks like in 2020 they voted in favor of statehood, 52.34% in favor, about a 57k vote margin. I recall another recent vote in favor, so it appears this question comes up a lot in their local politics. Given the history, and I forget his name, but back in the 50s (I think) they had a political leader who was arrested because he had built a very large movement towards complete independence from the US. I thought an undercurrent of that movement continued to this day. There's a chapter or two dedicated to Puerto Rican history in the book "How to Hide an Empire" by Daniel Immerwahr. The book covers how the US has always been an empire, and how our politicians have hidden that fact from the population's minds ever since we started our westward expansion to incorporate the contiguous 48.

 

[dxmnkd316]

You certainly know about the whole situation much more than I do. It looks like in 2020 they voted in favor of statehood, 52.34% in favor, about a 57k vote margin. I recall another recent vote in favor, so it appears this question comes up a lot in their local politics. Given the history, and I forget his name, but back in the 50s (I think) they had a political leader who was arrested because he had built a very large movement towards complete independence from the US. I thought an undercurrent of that movement continued to this day. There's a chapter or two dedicated to Puerto Rican history in the book "How to Hide an Empire" by Daniel Immerwahr. The book covers how the US has always been an empire, and how our politicians have hidden that fact from the population's minds ever since we started our westward expansion to incorporate the contiguous 48.

They were trying to hide it? They must really suck at it...

Being serious, thanks for the book recommendation

 

[ScoobyDoo]

I am going to enjoy the Civil War that is going to happen in the GOP after Biden takes office. It's going to be wonderful.

 

[St. Clown]

The best part about taking the Senate, is we no longer have to fight a nebulous "Republican" monster when trying to club people with bills. We can now force them to put their names to votes and pick them off one by one.

$2,000 checks. Make Murkowski, Johnson, Rubio, Grassley, Burr, and Scott explain why their constituents didn't deserve checks but tax cuts for trillion-dollar companies and billionaires were ok.
$15 min wage. Make them defend not giving a raise to their constituents while they give away cash to billionaires.
Legalized marijuana.
John Lewis VRA - Have fun with this Burr and Scott
Student loan forgiveness
ERA - Good luck to Murkowski on this one.

The list goes on. Pick them off, one by one, and all of a sudden, 2022 becomes fairly enticing to start ramming through the heavy stuff.

Edit, nm on Burr, he's retiring too.

Federal judicial nominee approvals. How long has it been?

 

[BassAle]

So, they at least get a pair of Senators and that's fine.

The new state will get two senators and three electoral votes (based on the population of the new state). The remaining federal district will still have its 3 electoral votes as prescribed by the 23rd amendment -- effectively giving the occupants of the White House the same say in the electoral college as a small state. Some would consider that a problem with the statehood plan that was previously passed by the house.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

The new state will get two senators and three electoral votes (based on the population of the new state). The remaining federal district will still have its 3 electoral votes as prescribed by the 23rd amendment -- effectively giving the occupants of the White House the same say in the electoral college as a small state.

It would require the White House occupants to register as D.C. residents, correct? Not that they wouldn't do so (they'd be foolish not to).

 

[French Rage]

Schumer definitely has a little pep in his step today.