Grand Unified Election Thread 2: What is the difference between Biden and Dump?

[Kepler]

Yeah, it's not like anyone on the left claimed that the Russians stole the election for Trump in 2016.

We claimed they intervened with cyber attacks to influence the outcome. Dump's own administration confirmed it.

The party you apologize for tried to overturn an election. They're fascists and you're either an unwitting chump or a witting jerk for covering for them.

You lost. F-ck your feelings.

 

[unofan]

The problem with the Electoral College is that it's biases toward small population states.

The workaround is to expand the house 3- or 5-fold, thereby reducing the influence of the senate in the EC.

Right now California gets 55 EVs to Wyoming's 3.

Go to 1500 seats, and it probably gets to about 250 - 5. (there's a fairly easy way to calculate it officially, but my excel skills are not up to par at the moment)

 

[Kepler]

Dems in Disarray!1!!11!1!

LOL. They try, oh how they try.

Politico, RCP, the Hill, CNN, WaPo, NYT. All playing the same old game. Never mind that we came 50 IQ points from losing our democracy, there's a cliche narrative to peddle!

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

We claimed they intervened with cyber attacks to influence the outcome. Dump's own administration confirmed it.

The party you apologize for tried to overturn an election. They're fascists and you're either an unwitting chump or a witting jerk for covering for them.

Why not both?

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

But NDHockey has posted a lot of nonsense on this board over the last month, including his ongoing claim that we're about to see a Civil War II. When he comes in and says that Democrats took the 2016 loss with nary a peep, that's just silly.

I have said more than once I look forward to coming on here and eating crow if there is no coup we don't devolve into civil war. I am more than willing to admit when I am wrong. Unlike you and virtually every other person of your political persuasion.

And anytime I have commented about how I think something may have been stolen from various democrats I provide context. I link to articles that purport to show how voter suppression tactics cost candidates votes in places like Wisconsin in 2016. I comment about things that have been excepted by literally everyone who is not a mouth breathing idiot, like Russian influence on the elections in 2016. Nowhere will you find a post by me that said, for instance, Russians stole or changed votes. Because it probably didn't happen, and there is no credible evidence it did. For 3 weeks now, your entire party, with exceptions I can count on my hands, has claimed things about the election that there is no evidence of, and in fact are not true. You have the president's media mouthpiece spouting stool sample about how Hillary never conceded and trump was not afforded a smooth transition. All lies. I don't lie. I'm wrong sometimes, and when wrong, I'll admit it. The next time someone of your ilk admits a mistake it will probably be the first time. That, and the hypocrisy, are the things that are so sickening about your side, and mainly why this country is in the fix it is in.

 

[Drew S.]

I'm not even talking about the transition.

For all the whining, pearl clutching and gnashing of teeth that's going on, what is going to happen is exactly what I said is going to happen. A majority of the electors will cast their ballot for Biden. Congress will affirm that in January, and on 1/20/21, Joe Biden will be sworn in as POTUS. That's what is going to happen.

There will be no civil war. There will be no call to the military to remove Trump. There will be no constitutional crisis.

Here is what there will be. Biden will have an inauguration that will be quite small, so as to remove some risk of spread of Covid, and Trump will brag about how his inauguration was much larger than Biden's.

You’re missing the bigger picture. We had a sitting president and a large percentage of his supporters, probably 40%-70%, who were ready to steal an election. By the grace of god Biden won GA and AZ and MI and PA weren’t close or it might have happened. The story isn’t that it didn’t work, it’s that it was so brazenly attempted and so many people went along with it.

 

[Kepler]

The workaround is to expand the house 3- or 5-fold, thereby reducing the influence of the senate in the EC.

Right now California gets 55 EVs to Wyoming's 3.

Go to 1500 seats, and it probably gets to about 250 - 5. (there's a fairly easy way to calculate it officially, but my excel skills are not up to par at the moment)

That doesn't help with the Senate. There we have to add states. Lots of them. You want WY and ND to be states? Fine, then Brooklyn (2x), the Bronx, Queens, and Manhattan (2x) are now each states. You can have a red (-dish) rump NY -- we'll take the net gain of 8 blue Senators.

Let's go to 100 states if we like round numbers so much. I am certain there is a clever way to carve out a net gain of 6 or 8 more blue Senators out of the rest of the map outside of NYC. And that's not even counting adding PR and DC.

The Right has shown us what they are. They are an existential threat to democracy. Reduce them to the hayseed rural reactionary party they are.

 

[Swansong]

You’re missing the bigger picture. We had a sitting president and a large percentage of his supporters, probably 40%-70%, who were ready to steal an election. By the grace of god Biden won GA and AZ and MI and PA weren’t close or it might have happened. The story isn’t that it didn’t work, it’s that it was so brazenly attempted and so many people went along with it.

Here's the more frustrating issue:

Virtually none of them see it as stealing anything. Sure, maybe a few open fascists don't care, but for the most part, they've just bought into the false idea that the election was actually stolen from them. Trump is a master at one thing - playing the victim - and he's convinced the cultists that they are aggrieved; they are the victims here.

 

[rufus]

Yeah, it's not like anyone on the left claimed that the Russians stole the election for Trump in 2016.

Go read the Senate Intelligence Committee's fifth and final report on Russian interference in the 2016 election.

The Republican-headed Senate Intelligence Committee.

Pretty much confirms everything that was in the Muellar Report. You know, the one that DIDN'T find Trump innocent of colluding with the Russians.

 

[SJHovey]

We claimed they intervened with cyber attacks to influence the outcome. Dump's own administration confirmed it.

The party you apologize for tried to overturn an election. They're fascists and you're either an unwitting chump or a witting jerk for covering for them.

You lost. F-ck your feelings.

Actually, I didn't lose. Like I told you when you asked me a number of weeks ago, I voted for Biden.

 

[SJHovey]

You may not be defending any of dumpy actions, the thought that there's even some kind of remote equivalency to 2016 is very wrong.

The "peeps" that happened in 2016 where nowhere near what happened in 2020. Not even close. Nobody took guns to a protest over the votes. Not once did anyone have major protests outside of voting areas claiming to stop the vote in one state and count the vote in another at the exact same time.

You can do better, but I don't think anyone genuinely thinks you ever will. Just like the rest of your racist party.

70% of the country, right now, thinks the election was BS and the Biden stole the election. That's not a nothing result.

I'm going to need to see a link on this statistic. In light of the popular vote numbers, I tend to think you are not right.

 

[rufus]

Seriously

Yeah, when it moves in the other direction, there will be Republicans arguing we should get rid of it, while Democrats will become strangely silent on the topic.

That is why, by the way, that professional politicians in Washington don't fall into the trap that the citizenry does. They understand that one day you may be in power, the next day you may not.

Seriously? Have you seen Mitch McConnell?

 

[rufus]

So,

I'm not even talking about the transition.

For all the whining, pearl clutching and gnashing of teeth that's going on, what is going to happen is exactly what I said is going to happen. A majority of the electors will cast their ballot for Biden. Congress will affirm that in January, and on 1/20/21, Joe Biden will be sworn in as POTUS. That's what is going to happen.

There will be no civil war. There will be no call to the military to remove Trump. There will be no constitutional crisis.

Here is what there will be. Biden will have an inauguration that will be quite small, so as to remove some risk of spread of Covid, and Trump will brag about how his inauguration was much larger than Biden's.

So, no white supremacists in the streets?

 

[JF_Gophers]

So,
So, no white supremacists in the streets?

I'm sure Trump will tell them all to stand down. I mean they are good people right? Even though he's totally not racist.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Virtually none of them see it as stealing anything. Sure, maybe a few open fascists don't care, but for the most part, they've just bought into the false idea that the election was actually stolen from them. Trump is a master at one thing - playing the victim - and he's convinced the cultists that they are aggrieved; they are the victims here.

 

[Handyman]

A really good explanation of how Joe Biden stole the election...

https://howbidenstoletheelection.co...Y4kJL1XAeYhVzsm63LXg2wh-djGcuy-aSwLl_X0qsXa-k

I admit it...that made me laugh harder than it should have. I sent it to other people to see how they react )

 

[unofan]

The workaround is to expand the house 3- or 5-fold, thereby reducing the influence of the senate in the EC.

Right now California gets 55 EVs to Wyoming's 3.

Go to 1500 seats, and it probably gets to about 250 - 5. (there's a fairly easy way to calculate it officially, but my excel skills are not up to par at the moment)

BTW, those of you with spreadsheet skills, help me out. I'm 99% of the way there to getting this calculated. I've followed the census bureau's formula and have a giant table showing the "priority number" for every state calculated out to 253 seats (and at this point, can easily go out more, I've got that part down).

How do I
1) turn that 50x253 chart of numbers into a list from biggest to smallest,
2) while keeping the header list of states with their associated numbers so I can then tally how many each state gets for a given number of congressional seats.

Alternatively, if there's a way to ask Excel to find 'n' largest values within a given the table and then tally up how many of those are in each row (State), that would also work.

A quick perusal, though, shows California would get at least its 253rd seat before Wyoming gets its 5th.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

I meant 70% of dumpy voters. You should be smart enough to understand that. Then again, your posts indicate that not happening.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/poli...ause-of-fraud/

I wonder if the average MAGAt realizes how lucky they are that trump has not yet gone Jim Jones on them. In the days immediately following the election a majority of republicans felt like Biden won the election fairly. But after literally weeks of trump and his enablers saying it was only fraud that put Biden over the top, now only a quarter of his voters are attached to reality well enough to realize Biden won for one reason, that he got more votes in the right states. Just like trump did in 2016.

I swear to God, if he told his followers that if they all drink bleach it would wipe clean the results and he would emerge the winner millions and millions would do it. trump supporters have have lost all connection to what is actually happening. They are so unbelievably deluded there is no bull5h!t they won't eat up and go back for seconds.

The coup might not have succeeded (and I am almost ready to give the crow store a call and order up my Thanksgiving meal) but this country is still royally fvcked when nearly half of its population can't even BEGIN to discern what is true.

30 years ago I used to welcome being around people with different political views than mine. In fact most of my circle HAD different political views on a number of topics. I was the last idiot within my circle in fact to disavow Ws Gulf war. Now, I don't want to be within a country mile of the average republican/trump supporter. They are bigots. They degrade the very notion of education. They believe all of the silly nonsense that Rudy peddles and that idiot woman who was so wacky even the trump circle had to move away from. You'll have an easier conversation with a brick wall, and the brick wall is probably smarter.

 

[St. Clown]

Yeah, when it moves in the other direction, there will be Republicans arguing we should get rid of it, while Democrats will become strangely silent on the topic.

That is why, by the way, that professional politicians in Washington don't fall into the trap that the citizenry does. They understand that one day you may be in power, the next day you may not.

The problem with the thought that the EC could/will turn against the more liberal voters and states is that the more liberal areas of the country are also the most densely populated. It's the low population-density parts of the country where they routinely vote GOP for the POTUS vote. It's those places that have disproportionately high representation in the EC.

Places with low population density, basically, rural America, has voted for the conservative party in an exceptionally consistent manner while the cities tend to either vote more liberal or flip from election to election, depending upon the state.

 

[St. Clown]

BTW, those of you with spreadsheet skills, help me out. I'm 99% of the way there to getting this calculated. I've followed the census bureau's formula and have a giant table showing the "priority number" for every state calculated out to 253 seats (and at this point, can easily go out more, I've got that part down).

How do I
1) turn that 50x253 chart of numbers into a list from biggest to smallest,
2) while keeping the header list of states with their associated numbers so I can then tally how many each state gets for a given number of congressional seats.

Alternatively, if there's a way to ask Excel to find 'n' largest values within a given the table and then tally up how many of those are in each row (State), that would also work.

A quick perusal, though, shows California would get at least its 253rd seat before Wyoming gets its 5th.

For those curious, this is the law that would need to be overturned: https://history.house.gov/Historical...t-Act-of-1929/

On this date, the House passed the Permanent Apportionment Act of 1929, fixing the number of Representatives at 435. The U.S. Constitution called for at least one Representative per state and that no more than one for every 30,000 persons. Thus, the size of a state’s House delegation depended on its population. But the founders were vague as to how large future Congresses should be and what method to use to reapportion the House after each federal census. These questions vexed Congress for much of its history as U.S. territories expanded and the population grew. Usually, the House reapportioned itself in a manner that increased, or at least preserved, the representation of most states. Gradually, however, the method for calculating apportionment caused smaller rural states to lose representation to larger urbanized states. A battle erupted between rural and urban factions, causing the House (for the only time in its history) to fail to reapportion itself following the 1920 Census. Signed into law on June 18, 1929, the Permanent Apportionment Act capped House Membership at the level

established after the 1910 Census and created a procedure for automatically reapportioning House seats after every decennial census. Republican

Majority Leader John Q. Tilson of Connecticut approvingly declared that the act dispelled the “danger of failing to reapportion after each decennial census as contemplated by the Constitution.” But opponents, such as William B. Bankheadof Alabama, who doubted its constitutionality, had earlier described the plan as “the abdication and surrender of the vital fundamental powers vested in the Congress of the United States by the Constitution itself.” In 1941, Congress adopted the current formula for reapportioning House seats.