Grand Unified Election Thread 2: What is the difference between Biden and Dump?

[Swansong]

I'm still perplexed by this "the media doesn't decide who wins" canard.

I mean, no kidding? They didn't decide. We did. And we decided that Joe Biden won.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Yeah, I don't recall a 3-week refrain from Clinton voters in 2016 about the media deciding, or widespread fraud or anything other than "how could so many people vote for trump?" The only two consistent refrains from progressives following 2016 were we wish Clinton had run a better campaign in some states, and maybe the Electoral College as our system for choosing a president is something that needs to be done away with (and the latter isn't even something all Democrats agree with). Yet all trump voters have been saying for 3 weeks now is the election was stolen and the media doesn't decide who wins.

Oh, and by the way, we progressives are not hypocrites. I was all for abolishing the Electoral College in 2000 when I thought Gore might win there even IF he got fewer popular votes and I still favor abolishing it even though it got Biden elected this time. Don't forget that in 2000 they spoke of that as a possible outcome and the majority of republicans were in favor of using the popular vote to pick the president. Hypocrites that they are, they got off that train quickly when they realized it makes it much easier to elect a republican.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

I'm still perplexed by this "the media doesn't decide who wins" canard.

I mean, no kidding? They didn't decide. We did. And we decided that Joe Biden won.

Not only that but they have their own media bubble. Seriously. If you have your own echo chamber telling you whatever you want why are you so upset with media? Media is not entirely tailored to your needs as a human. If you want to be informed and not a moron you can find it. If you want to be a complete moron for the rest of your life you can find it.

Or is it because Fox News can't decide what the hell to do? Screw em. Go to OAN then. Go to Facebook. Go to Alex Jones. They'll hook you up. Screw Fox News.

 

[SJHovey]

Yeah, I don't recall a 3-week refrain from Clinton voters in 2016 about the media deciding, or widespread fraud or anything other than "how could so many people vote for trump?" The only two consistent refrains from progressives following 2016 were we wish Clinton had run a better campaign in some states, and maybe the Electoral College as our system for choosing a president is something that needs to be done away with (and the latter isn't even something all Democrats agree with). Yet all trump voters have been saying for 3 weeks now is the election was stolen and the media doesn't decide who wins.

Oh, and by the way, we progressives are not hypocrites. I was all for abolishing the Electoral College in 2000 when I thought Gore might win there even IF he got fewer popular votes and I still favor abolishing it even though it got Biden elected this time. Don't forget that in 2000 they spoke of that as a possible outcome and the majority of republicans were in favor of using the popular vote to pick the president. Hypocrites that they are, they got off that train quickly when they realized it makes it much easier to elect a republican.

Yeah, it's not like anyone on the left claimed that the Russians stole the election for Trump in 2016.

With respect to the Electoral College, I understand the frustration with it from the Democrats, but I wouldn't be so quick to discard it. It's not a built in feature of the Electoral College that it favors Republicans or conservatives. Someday it could just as easily favor Democrats, or the Weed Party, or whoever.

The thing about the Electoral College, and the individual state by state way we have of doing things, is that it's extremely hard to simply go out and steal an election. Would you have felt more comfortable this year if there was just a group of 3 federal employees in charge of certifying the presidential election results for the entire country?

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Dems in Disarray!1!!11!1!

 

[aparch]

There are so many absolutely incredible one liners in that show.

I need to rewatch that series, and catch up with the last few seasons.

The biting witty one-liners and even the throw away lines had me laughing so hard.

And the historical too-on-the-nose quips were just brilliant.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Yeah, it's not like anyone on the left claimed that the Russians stole the election for Trump in 2016.

With respect to the Electoral College, I understand the frustration with it from the Democrats, but I wouldn't be so quick to discard it. It's not a built in feature of the Electoral College that it favors Republicans or conservatives. Someday it could just as easily favor Democrats, or the Weed Party, or whoever.

The thing about the Electoral College, and the individual state by state way we have of doing things, is that it's extremely hard to simply go out and steal an election. Would you have felt more comfortable this year if there was just a group of 3 federal employees in charge of certifying the presidential election results for the entire country?

As usual, someone from the the right makes a false equivalency argument. You did not have reams of democrats screaming for weeks on end the Russians stole the election. The things we said here were that Russians influenced the narrative, which was absolutely and demonstrably true. No where do I recall the losing candidate in 2016 crying for days about how she lost because of theft and fraud. There were concessions and people moved on. You have the vast majority of the entire republican party spending weeks saying this election was fraudulent and might be overturned. There is NO comparison between how Democrats behaved in 2016 and how republicans are behaving in 2020. Unless you are a liar.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

As usual, someone from the the right makes a false equivalency argument. You did not have reams of democrats screaming for weeks on end the Russians stole the election. The things we said here were that Russians influenced the narrative, which was absolutely and demonstrably true. No where do I recall the losing candidate in 2016 crying for days about how she lost because of theft and fraud. There were concessions and people moved on. You have the vast majority of the entire republican party spending weeks saying this election was fraudulent and might be overturned. There is NO comparison between how Democrats behaved in 2016 and how republicans are behaving in 2020. Unless you are a liar.

False equivalency is the rights oxygen. They don't survive without it.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

And as for the electoral college, it is wrong because if favors small populations, not because it favors a party. Right now though it clearly favors the republicans, and THAT is why they are opposed to abolishing it. As soon as it moves in another direction they will be all for getting rid of it. Stupid question, but do republicans EVER tire of their own hypocrisy?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

And as for the electoral college, it is wrong because if favors small populations, not because it favors a party. Right now though it clearly favors the republicans, and THAT is why they are opposed to abolishing it. As soon as it moves in another direction they will be all for getting rid of it. Stupid question, but do republicans EVER tire of their own hypocrisy?

Nope. That's their water. They don't survive without it.

 

[Slap Shot]

Yeah, it's not like anyone on the left claimed that the Russians stole the election for Trump in 2016.

This is utter garbage. While a small subset might have argued the election was "stolen" the primary and most pervasive argument was that it was unduly influenced. Regardless Hillary conceded the next day and there were was nary a movement to attempt to invalidate the results.

 

[SJHovey]

As usual, someone from the the right makes a false equivalency argument. You did not have reams of democrats screaming for weeks on end the Russians stole the election. The things we said here were that Russians influenced the narrative, which was absolutely and demonstrably true. No where do I recall the losing candidate in 2016 crying for days about how she lost because of theft and fraud. There were concessions and people moved on. You have the vast majority of the entire republican party spending weeks saying this election was fraudulent and might be overturned. There is NO comparison between how Democrats behaved in 2016 and how republicans are behaving in 2020. Unless you are a liar.

Your claim that Dems in 2016 were like, "oh well, thems the breaks. If HRC had only campaigned smarter, we'd have won" is complete nonsense. It is true the Dems turned on HRC. But you and the rest of them here claimed the Russians stole the election, James Comey stole the election, the GOP suppressed the vote and stole the election, etc...

To sit here today and claim your position was more nuanced, that your argument was only that the Russians "influenced the narrative", gives me a good chuckle.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

jfc

 

[SJHovey]

This is utter garbage. While a small subset might have argued the election was "stolen" the primary and most pervasive argument was that it was unduly influenced. Regardless Hillary conceded the next day and there were was nary a movement to attempt to invalidate the results.

There wasn't an attempt by Hillary to overturn the election. I don't claim there was. I don't claim she did anything inappropriate. I don't even defend Trump for his actions, which I regard has foolish, futile, a huge waste of time, a huge waste of money, and not helpful at all for the country.

I should also note, I did not, and since 2016 have not, come here and complained about Democrats whining about Comey or whining about the Russians or anything else. It's a free country, I have no objection to them complaining about it.

But NDHockey has posted a lot of nonsense on this board over the last month, including his ongoing claim that we're about to see a Civil War II. When he comes in and says that Democrats took the 2016 loss with nary a peep, that's just silly.

 

[Drew S.]

No one is saying Democrats were happy in 2016, but they certainly didn’t try to stop the transition. It’s ridiculous for the GOP to try to compare the two.

 

[SJHovey]

And as for the electoral college, it is wrong because if favors small populations, not because it favors a party. Right now though it clearly favors the republicans, and THAT is why they are opposed to abolishing it. As soon as it moves in another direction they will be all for getting rid of it. Stupid question, but do republicans EVER tire of their own hypocrisy?

Yeah, when it moves in the other direction, there will be Republicans arguing we should get rid of it, while Democrats will become strangely silent on the topic.

That is why, by the way, that professional politicians in Washington don't fall into the trap that the citizenry does. They understand that one day you may be in power, the next day you may not.

 

[BassAle]

And as for the electoral college, it is wrong because if favors small populations, not because it favors a party. Right now though it clearly favors the republicans, and THAT is why they are opposed to abolishing it. As soon as it moves in another direction they will be all for getting rid of it. Stupid question, but do republicans EVER tire of their own hypocrisy?

The Bush campaign had prepared a strategy to fight an electoral college loss (by pushing electors from states to go with the winner of the national popular vote). They were also preparing on a media campaign to turn people against the electoral college. They had thought it was more likely that Bush would win the popular vote and lose the electoral college than the other way around.

 

[SJHovey]

No one is saying Democrats were happy in 2016, but they certainly didn’t try to stop the transition. It’s ridiculous for the GOP to try to compare the two.

I'm not even talking about the transition.

For all the whining, pearl clutching and gnashing of teeth that's going on, what is going to happen is exactly what I said is going to happen. A majority of the electors will cast their ballot for Biden. Congress will affirm that in January, and on 1/20/21, Joe Biden will be sworn in as POTUS. That's what is going to happen.

There will be no civil war. There will be no call to the military to remove Trump. There will be no constitutional crisis.

Here is what there will be. Biden will have an inauguration that will be quite small, so as to remove some risk of spread of Covid, and Trump will brag about how his inauguration was much larger than Biden's.

 

[Kepler]

https://twitter.com/randyrrquaid/status/1327043884082409474?s=21

Here’s a very normal thing for the leader of a country to retweet.

Yes, he actually shared this.

Cocaine. It's a helluva drug.

 

[Kepler]

They'll hook you up.

This is the perfect way to put it. Well done.