What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Grand Unified Election Thread 2: What is the difference between Biden and Dump?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Handyman said:
Yeah it is this amazing thing that your side never quite seemed to grasp. I bet if you think about it for longer than half a second you can even figure out why.

(plus how is adding the Public Option replacing it? Adding to something != replacing)
Click to expand...

It’s just not as cool as what his side is doing. You know filing lawsuits to raise money to pay down trumps debt
 
Deutsche Gopher Fan said:
It’s just not as cool as what his side is doing. You know filing lawsuits to raise money to pay down trumps debt
Click to expand...

Or trying to repeal ObamaCare without a replacement so millions are screwed. They should probably just die anyways to keep the economy going! Rafael Cruz endorses that!
 
ScoobyDoo said:
Well, this should be interesting. If the ACA gets shot down it should help the Dems in Georgia. If it doesn't get shot down the crybaby in the oval office will get to have another meltdown.
Click to expand...

We won't know if it's getting shot down or not until the spring at earliest, but most likely June.

In the meantime, both sides will cherry pick quotes from the oral argument to bolster their case in the Court of public opinion.
 
SJHovey said:
So, you guys are fighting to save the ACA in order to legislatively replace it?
Click to expand...

We should all be fighting to provide health care to Americans.

My preference would be to win the Senate and then add six justices to the Court. But even if we win both GA seats I don't think for example Manchin will support that; the Court is a dream deferred.

So the next best thing, for both sides, is to redo ACA with all the holes SCOTUS has pointed out filled in.

I doubt the entire GOP will continue to attack ACA 2.0. A few of them (Murkowski, Collins, Tillis if he knows what's good for him) will even support it. They will consider themselves lucky it's not Single Payer. The mission to eradicate ObamaCare was a strategic decision by the GOP to demonize Obama. It wasn't on the merits, which their own constituents supported and now support even more.

The snarkfest is over, SJ. We had to defeat Nazism in America and we did it. We are now back in 2015; normalcy. You don't want socialized medicine; I do. ACA is the midpoint between what we want. It's a compromise, and in a 50/50 country that's how we move forward, partially representing both sides' desires and making Americans' lives better. Neither of us has the political power to override the other, so we will have to live with each other. As a practical matter, I propose we emphasize the portion of the Venn diagram where we agree over the portion where we don't.

Consider this an olive branch.
 
Last edited:
ScoobyDoo said:
Wonderful. I had not heard that yet. Just wonderful. Well, if that's the case then Biden is not going to get a single law passed or Judge confirmed.
Click to expand...

Manchin also said he refuses to vote for the (and I parapharase) loony left with initiatives.

Oh, and he also is on record as saying no to expanding the court. Even with two wins in GA, Kepler's dream of +6 dies in West Virginia.
 
Kepler said:
...The obsession with ObamaCare was a strategic decision by the GOP to demonize Obama. It wasn't on the merits, which their own constituents supported and now support even more.
Click to expand...
It is pretty amazing how the GOP was so dead set against "RomneyCare" when it was named after Obama...
 
aparch said:
Manchin also said he refuses to vote for the (and I parapharase) loony left with initiatives.

Oh, and he also is on record as saying no to expanding the court. Even with two wins in GA, Kepler's dream of +6 dies in West Virginia.
Click to expand...

Then we basically have Obama's last 6 years all over again. Which is part of the reason the progressives revolted against Clinton.
 
aparch said:
Even with two wins in GA, Kepler's dream of +6 dies in West Virginia.
Click to expand...

It is a dream deferred. We'll see again after 2022. :-)

The GOP may actually come to regret Alito and Barrett. Thomas and Kavanaugh are party officials who will do what the RNC tells them, but Alito and Barrett are pinwheel-eyed ideologues. They aren't going to play ball; they see the Promised Land in their addled minds.
 
aparch said:
Manchin also said he refuses to vote for the (and I parapharase) loony left with initiatives.

Oh, and he also is on record as saying no to expanding the court. Even with two wins in GA, Kepler's dream of +6 dies in West Virginia.
Click to expand...

Kepler's dream of +6 was grounded in about as much reality as my dream of being a 7' tall NBA superstar.

Manchin and GOP Senators will be the boogeymen for the left, now that Trump has been dispatched. But honestly, the AOC agenda was never going to get passed in a House where the Dem majority shrunk and a Senate is still very evenly divided. The extremes can continue to push their agenda, but change is going to be very incremental, and it will be in the middle. If people refuse to accept that and insist it's my way or the highway, then there will be no change at all.
 
SJHovey said:
Kepler's dream of +6 was grounded in about as much reality as my dream of being a 7' tall NBA superstar.

Manchin and GOP Senators will be the boogeymen for the left, now that Trump has been dispatched. But honestly, the AOC agenda was never going to get passed in a House where the Dem majority shrunk and a Senate is still very evenly divided. The extremes can continue to push their agenda, but change is going to be very incremental, and it will be in the middle. If people refuse to accept that and insist it's my way or the highway, then there will be no change at all.
Click to expand...

You really do not understand what moderate legislation is then. The Republicans have given the Democrats nothing since the ACA passed. The last 4 years they have dismantled everything Obama attempted to do legislation or no legislation.

Biden will have to run things like Obama did through executive order because the Republicans in the Senate will pass nothing but austerity budgets for the next four years.
 
bronconick said:
How will anything pass when Manchin says he won't vote to kill the filibuster if it's 50-50?
Click to expand...

Budget reconciliation. Definitely not as effective and wide-ranging as regular legislation, but I’m sure we have some smart cookies on our side who can figure out how to fit ACA expansion into budget reconciliation, while getting Manchin on board.
 
SJHovey said:
Kepler's dream of +6 was grounded in about as much reality as my dream of being a 7' tall NBA superstar.

Manchin and GOP Senators will be the boogeymen for the left, now that Trump has been dispatched. But honestly, the AOC agenda was never going to get passed in a House where the Dem majority shrunk and a Senate is still very evenly divided. The extremes can continue to push their agenda, but change is going to be very incremental, and it will be in the middle. If people refuse to accept that and insist it's my way or the highway, then there will be no change at all.
Click to expand...

To some extent. McConnell was 100% successful executing the most radical project ever proposed in the Senate. He packed the federal courts up all the way through SCOTUS. I am all but certain he will do that for as long as he is SML.

The Right for the last 30 years has been radical and highly effective. It can be done. I agree with you that as long as the Democratic party presents liberal ideas as aspirational they will fail, but that is not guaranteed to last forever. In the 50s and 60s the GOP shunned the radical right. It was only in 1978 after the Nixon debacle that Reagan's faction was able to seize the party. The results have been very successful for the GOP albeit disastrous for our nation and the world.
 
psych said:
Budget reconciliation. Definitely not as effective and wide-ranging as regular legislation, but I’m sure we have some smart cookies on our side who can figure out how to fit ACA expansion into budget reconciliation, while getting Manchin on board.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Manchin's refusal to support liberal ideas is purely tactical -- he represents hillbillies. Everything he tub thumps against in public he will quietly allow under cover of arcane legalese, exactly as Republicans have been doing for the last half century.

Breaking news: 90% of them on both sides have no values or principles. They are interested in saving their biennially more cushioned hides because it is a good gig for graft and women who look like Jill St. John still sleep with men twice (and thrice) their age for proximity to power.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top