Good Bye NCHA, Hello WIAC. Grab a life vest SNC and CSS!

[BetterInLakePlacid]

Re: Good Bye NCHA, Hello WIAC. Grab a life vest SNC and CSS!

Has anyone else heard the rumor about SNC actually looking into Division I even though they said otherwise? It seems some talks have been in the works that would involve basketball and hockey playing at Brown County Arena, while they would fold the football program and use the stadium as a D-I soccer venue. After what we saw already this week I don't think anything should surprise us at this point...

 

[Sir Nubs]

And how did aid play a role in the season series between River and SNC? I agree there is talent on all the NCHA teams perhaps it is how they are coached. I can't help but believe that if Coglin were the coach at UW-Whereever that that school would have more Peters Cup championship. You can not blame Rivers colapse at the end of the season on aid.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Kind of funny no one from the WIAC says anything about financial aid when they wax private schools in football or basketball - I can't think of the last time a Wisconsin private beat a WIAC in football. It's pretty quiet on that front then - it's only hockey where it's an issue. Sounds like sour grapes to me that none of the public programs in the NCHA are operated on the level SNC is by their coaches.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Good Bye NCHA, Hello WIAC. Grab a life vest SNC and CSS!

Imagine if the ECAC-E reorganized just to keep Norwich out?

Yowzers....Hello NESCAC ;P

 

[GB Puck Fan]

Re: Good Bye NCHA, Hello WIAC. Grab a life vest SNC and CSS!

Has anyone else heard the rumor about SNC actually looking into Division I even though they said otherwise? It seems some talks have been in the works that would involve basketball and hockey playing at Brown County Arena, while they would fold the football program and use the stadium as a D-I soccer venue. After what we saw already this week I don't think anything should surprise us at this point...

SNC is NOT going D1. SNC is NOT going D1. SNC is NOT going D1.

Is that clear?

The arena is a dump, folks. Lots of character, but horrible scoreboards which barely work, horrible ice making equipment, poor restrooms, poor concessions. It's not a long term home for anyone. It's OK for an occaisional game, I suppose, though I haven't heard of any talk of that.

Schneider Stadium already hosts the soccer team. Given the football team's success, I can't see that going away.

 

[jerrynu26]

Re: Good Bye NCHA, Hello WIAC. Grab a life vest SNC and CSS!

Yowzers....Hello NESCAC ;P

Yeah, that will never happen..... but the ECAC-West might be loving it...........

 

[Cheese4ever]

Re: Good Bye NCHA, Hello WIAC. Grab a life vest SNC and CSS!

Maybe they should not let Superior into WIAC as they have 13 Canadians on their roster this year. How can they do that???

 

[GB Puck Fan]

Re: Good Bye NCHA, Hello WIAC. Grab a life vest SNC and CSS!

Another thing to keep in mind about the idea of SNC going D1 for everything...

There already is a Division 1 program in town - UW-Green Bay - that is struggling for survival. It's men's basketball team averages less than the Green Bay Gamblers and it plays in the Resch. I'm not sure how an upstart SNC team playing a worse facility is supposed to generate support that UWGB hasn't been able to build.

Even if SNC went D2, there's still that competition for scholarship athletes and crowd support. It's easy to say 'move to D2' but that doesn't mean there are the attendance or local sponsorship dollars to make it happen. And as pointed out, the D2 travel costs would much higher, too.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Good Bye NCHA, Hello WIAC. Grab a life vest SNC and CSS!

Took the words right out of my mouth. Kind of funny no one from the WIAC says anything about financial aid when they wax private schools in football or basketball - I can't think of the last time a Wisconsin private beat a WIAC in football. It's pretty quiet on that front then - it's only hockey where it's an issue. Sounds like sour grapes to me that none of the public programs in the NCHA are operated on the level SNC is by their coaches.

Yea because so many Football and Basketball players come from north of the border

Look at the rosters

<table>	<tr><td>	TEAM	</td><td>	% FOREIGN	</td><td>	% In State	</td></tr>	
	<tr><td>	SNC	</td><td>	60</td><td>	26	</td></tr>	
								
	<tr><td>	CSS	</td><td>	72	</td><td>	20	</td></tr>	
								
	<tr><td>	UWEC	</td><td>	7	</td><td>	71	</td></tr>	
								
	<tr><td>	UWRF	</td><td>	3	</td><td>	55	</td></tr>	
								
	<tr><td>	UWSP	</td><td>	0	</td><td>	88	</td></tr>	
								
	<tr><td>	UWSTOU	</td><td>	13	</td><td>	62	</td></tr>	
								
	<tr><td>	UWS	</td><td>	41	</td><td>	41	</td></tr>	</table>

So besides UWS I think the other 4 schools are struggling to hand out FA packages to stay competitive (if any at all) with the private schools who can. Its very common knowledge that most succesful NCAA DIII hockey teams have to have a majority of Canadian/Foreign players. If you don't have the resources to allow for cheaper tuition over a private school who can, where are the recruits going to go?? For years we saw this with the SUNYAC and Plattsburgh, but more and more school either A) Upped their FA packages, and then passed Plattsburgh B) brought it up to Plattsburgh's amount C) Started a FA program. I beleive every SUNY school but Cortland now has some sort of aid program. Hense the reason you see Cortland struggle and teams like Brockport and Buff State coming up out of the cellar. Where would Buff State be with out McKinny, Carr and Knee?? Plattsburgh had to drop their aid packages for a few years in the mid-2000's due to budget cuts, their team success suffered because of it. Wisc, Minn and Dakota's all get In-State tuition prices.

Again, Im not saying anything SNC or CSS is doing is illegal. Sour grapes? Maybe some. The fact that the State Budget is in the toilet and the schools can not afford to allow big price breaks for international students is a whole different story.

 

[BetterInLakePlacid]

Re: Good Bye NCHA, Hello WIAC. Grab a life vest SNC and CSS!

SNC is NOT going D1. SNC is NOT going D1. SNC is NOT going D1.

Is that clear?

The arena is a dump, folks. Lots of character, but horrible scoreboards which barely work, horrible ice making equipment, poor restrooms, poor concessions. It's not a long term home for anyone. It's OK for an occaisional game, I suppose, though I haven't heard of any talk of that.

Schneider Stadium already hosts the soccer team. Given the football team's success, I can't see that going away.

That's what you think.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Good Bye NCHA, Hello WIAC. Grab a life vest SNC and CSS!

Maybe they should not let Superior into WIAC as they have 13 Canadians on their roster this year. How can they do that???

But yet they still have nearly twice as many In-State (or the MSEP) as the two private schools...

 

[GB Puck Fan]

Re: Good Bye NCHA, Hello WIAC. Grab a life vest SNC and CSS!

That's what you think.

Well, the athletic director said this week SNC won't be moving to D1. That's what he says.

Those are my comments about the facilities in town, etc., yes.

 

[Sir Nubs]

Yea because so many Football and Basketball players come from north of the border

Look at the rosters

<table>	<tr><td>	TEAM	</td><td>	% FOREIGN	</td><td>	% In State	</td></tr>	
	<tr><td>	SNC	</td><td>	60</td><td>	26	</td></tr>	
								
	<tr><td>	CSS	</td><td>	72	</td><td>	20	</td></tr>	
								
	<tr><td>	UWEC	</td><td>	7	</td><td>	71	</td></tr>	
								
	<tr><td>	UWRF	</td><td>	3	</td><td>	55	</td></tr>	
								
	<tr><td>	UWSP	</td><td>	0	</td><td>	88	</td></tr>	
								
	<tr><td>	UWSTOU	</td><td>	13	</td><td>	62	</td></tr>	
								
	<tr><td>	UWS	</td><td>	41	</td><td>	41	</td></tr>	</table>

So besides UWS I think the other 4 schools are struggling to hand out FA packages to stay competitive (if any at all) with the private schools who can. Its very common knowledge that most succesful NCAA DIII hockey teams have to have a majority of Canadian/Foreign players. If you don't have the resources to allow for cheaper tuition over a private school who can, where are the recruits going to go?? For years we saw this with the SUNYAC and Plattsburgh, but more and more school either A) Upped their FA packages, and then passed Plattsburgh B) brought it up to Plattsburgh's amount C) Started a FA program. I beleive every SUNY school but Cortland now has some sort of aid program. Hense the reason you see Cortland struggle and teams like Brockport and Buff State coming up out of the cellar. Where would Buff State be with out McKinny, Carr and Knee?? Plattsburgh had to drop their aid packages for a few years in the mid-2000's due to budget cuts, their team success suffered because of it. Wisc, Minn and Dakota's all get In-State tuition prices.

Again, Im not saying anything SNC or CSS is doing is illegal. Sour grapes? Maybe some. The fact that the State Budget is in the toilet and the schools can not afford to allow big price breaks for international students is a whole different story.

You being from Plattsburgh would certainly know about large price breaks for internationals and others for the last 25 years or so, wouldn't you. The story in the Stevens Point Journal says it all. The WIAC expects regional private schools to service their needs i.e. roll over and play dead. When they don't, they'll try and find some patsies who will be more than willing to comply i.e. inviting mostly non-competitive MCHA schools to join. Superior can have a preponderance of foreign students but its not ok if a private does? Its rubbish and its an indication why one program has dominated for so long. Some programs are focused on hockey and the others are focused on things that have nothing to do with what happens on the ice.

 

[NorthernPike]

Re: Good Bye NCHA, Hello WIAC. Grab a life vest SNC and CSS!

Maybe they should not let Superior into WIAC as they have 13 Canadians on their roster this year. How can they do that???

Because UW-Superior is allowed to offer Canadians in-state tuition.

 

[Cheese4ever]

Re: Good Bye NCHA, Hello WIAC. Grab a life vest SNC and CSS!

I thought this was about trying to level the playing field. Doesn't this tilt the field in UW-Superiors direction if it is about FA to foreign students? As stated above it is OK if it is a UW school has the advantage as long as it is not a private.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Good Bye NCHA, Hello WIAC. Grab a life vest SNC and CSS!

You being from Plattsburgh would certainly know about large price breaks for internationals and others for the last 25 years or so, wouldn't you. The story in the Stevens Point Journal says it all. The WIAC expects regional private schools to service their needs i.e. roll over and play dead. When they don't, they'll try and find some patsies who will be more than willing to comply i.e. inviting mostly non-competitive MCHA schools to join. Superior can have a preponderance of foreign students but its not ok if a private does? Its rubbish and its an indication why one program has dominated for so long. Some programs are focused on hockey and the others are focused on things that have nothing to do with what happens on the ice.

You really don't get it do you? When 4 of your 5 schools can not afford to do it, they know they are not going to be competitive with those that can. It's fact. UWS is still 20% lower then the private schools, and still doubles them in MSEP tuition students. Private schools (SNC and CSS) have a much wider base to find players. Yes some programs (like SNC) are focused on hockey, not putting down SNC at all. But when your 4 other State Schools can not finacially compete for players (obviously from the %'s) they would rather go elsewhere. As someone who could care less, okay not in those words, I can see both points. We deal with things in the East just the same, and the other SUNYAC teams dealt with it for years as well. But they didn't wuss up and try and start their own conference kicking Plattsburgh and Oswego out. They've gone out and started their own FA programs and have started to bring their level up to the top two teams. While I think the WIAC schools should do the same, obviously their higher ups don't want to invest in the $$$ to do so. We had the same thing for years when Plattsburgh was in the ECAC's with all the private schools. They can do so much more with their rates of tuition (as long as its for everyone) then a State school thats on major restrictions and budgets.

 

[BetterInLakePlacid]

Re: Good Bye NCHA, Hello WIAC. Grab a life vest SNC and CSS!

You being from Plattsburgh would certainly know about large price breaks for internationals and others for the last 25 years or so, wouldn't you. The story in the Stevens Point Journal says it all. The WIAC expects regional private schools to service their needs i.e. roll over and play dead. When they don't, they'll try and find some patsies who will be more than willing to comply i.e. inviting mostly non-competitive MCHA schools to join. Superior can have a preponderance of foreign students but its not ok if a private does? Its rubbish and its an indication why one program has dominated for so long. Some programs are focused on hockey and the others are focused on things that have nothing to do with what happens on the ice.

As a resident of Stevens Point, I can safely say that the Stevens Point Journal is not useful for anything except tinder. Your point on the other hand, is valid.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Good Bye NCHA, Hello WIAC. Grab a life vest SNC and CSS!

I thought this was about trying to level the playing field. Doesn't this tilt the field in UW-Superiors direction if it is about FA to foreign students? As stated above it is OK if it is a UW school has the advantage as long as it is not a private.

40% is not 70%....and 20% MSEP is not 40% MSEP....those are BIG gaps...while yes UWS does have an advantage (and probably a major reason why they are 2nd in the NCHA over the years), they are not in the 60% and 70% range and 20% range of MSEP....BIG difference.

It's also a lot harder to kick out a WIAC school then a private school....just saying....again trust me I'm not saying I don't dissagree....but if the other 4 schools can't finacially keep up and or give out the aid, this is their way out of trying to save face in DIII hockey...right or wrong I think this is one of the major issues. SNC hasn't won ALL their NCHA Championships and NCAA Championships just because of FA...but if they were limited to 3 or 4 foreign students a year on a roster, how would they look then?

 

[Flashy Man]

Re: Good Bye NCHA, Hello WIAC. Grab a life vest SNC and CSS!

Some Thoughts
Finlandia is a really small private school, located in Michigan, and a long gruelling trip for any of the teams in the WIAC..

Mostly it affects the schools with the least amount of travel right now. Therefore, improving parity within the conference when it comes to travel.

 

[AldenPartridge1819]

Re: Good Bye NCHA, Hello WIAC. Grab a life vest SNC and CSS!

Imagine if the ECAC-E reorganized just to keep Norwich out?

Awesome. Norwich to the ECAC-W. No more home-and-homes against UNE and St. Mike's!!! Heck, throw Castleton in for a nice VT travel partner and we can have some fun watching great hockey EVERY weekend.

 

[NorthernBlight]

Re: Good Bye NCHA, Hello WIAC. Grab a life vest SNC and CSS!

You really don't get it do you? When 4 of your 5 schools can not afford to do it, they know they are not going to be competitive with those that can. It's fact. UWS is still 20% lower then the private schools, and still doubles them in MSEP tuition students. Private schools (SNC and CSS) have a much wider base to find players. Yes some programs (like SNC) are focused on hockey, not putting down SNC at all. But when your 4 other State Schools can not finacially compete for players (obviously from the %'s) they would rather go elsewhere. As someone who could care less, okay not in those words, I can see both points. We deal with things in the East just the same, and the other SUNYAC teams dealt with it for years as well. But they didn't wuss up and try and start their own conference kicking Plattsburgh and Oswego out. They've gone out and started their own FA programs and have started to bring their level up to the top two teams. While I think the WIAC schools should do the same, obviously their higher ups don't want to invest in the $$$ to do so. We had the same thing for years when Plattsburgh was in the ECAC's with all the private schools. They can do so much more with their rates of tuition (as long as its for everyone) then a State school thats on major restrictions and budgets.

Can you please provide numbers to back this up? Without them you have absolutely zero point and no credibility. Thanks.