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Golf 2016 - I Phil we'll never hear the Rory of the Tiger again.

Re: Golf 2016 - I Phil we'll never hear the Rory of the Tiger again.

mookie1995 said:
Believe it. Bet they water greens and have left the fairways
Click to expand...

Rickey F hit a 450 yd drive in practice round. Like the old joke of hitting a golf ball on a frozen lake.
 
Re: Golf 2016 - I Phil we'll never hear the Rory of the Tiger again.

I'm going to throw this question out to our golfers here and see if anyone has some ideas for me.

I serve on the Handicap Committee at the Club where I belong. As I side note, it is about as thankless a volunteer job as it sounds.

The most popular event at our club each year is the member/guest. The stakes in the event are high enough that if someone were inclined to fudge on their handicap there is certainly enough incentive to do so.

The member/guest is a two person scramble tournament played over two days. The handicap formula for each member/guest team is determined as follows:

1. The player's lowest USGA handicap index for the prior twelve months is determined.
2. That handicap index is converted into a course handicap for our course, at the tees we will be playing.
3. The member's course handicap and the guest's course handicap are added together, then divided by four to get the "team" handicap.
4. The team handicap cannot be greater than the best golfer's handicap on that team. For example, if a 2 handicap plays with a guest who is a 14, that team will play at a 2 and not a 4 ((2+14)/4).
5. The 60 teams are divided into six flights. Each flight winner goes into a "shootout" event to determine the ultimate champion, although each flight winner also receives a significant prize.

I've played the event for going on 30 years. For all of those years there has been periodic grumbling about the handicaps of different teams.

Part of the difficulty is the handicapping in a scramble format event.

As a Handicap Committee, we've been grappling with Dean Knuth's suggestion that Club's implement a "points system" in a flighted scramble event. Players on teams that place first, second or third in a flight are assigned a set number of points. Each year a players "points" over the past number of events are totaled, and if that player reaches a certain threshold his or her handicap is adjusted down, depending upon how many points they've achieved.

My question is this. Have any of you, at your own club or in events where you play, tried this points system? If so, what has the reaction been of the players and has it seemed to result in a more level playing field?
 
Re: Golf 2016 - I Phil we'll never hear the Rory of the Tiger again.

mookie's old club has always tried to talk through a "points" system like this. whether it is flight winners are automatically promoted or whatnot.

mookie enjoys playing with numbers as such, and as a thank you mookie still investigates and builds flights for the old club's member guest (even though mookie has not been a member for a couple years :))

what old club does is take mookie's investigation inputs (like seeing how one guest posted 4 scores this past Saturday, all high, to increase their ghin). or see where another guest went this past week (middle of july) and posted scores from may to push out low scores and not make it look like there were a number of fresh july scores posted.

old club also had mookie post scores played in the m/g into guest and member's ghins if they failed or forgot to do so.

then at the end of the day the old club's cmte (basically chairman) would arbitrarily set handicaps on players with shady pasts, or with sketchy posting history, or guys who won a couple years in a row by shooting scores well below their expected scores based on handicaps carried into the event.

mookie thinks as long as you institute something and let everyone know. then process it equally (don't let one guy slide because he is a 'good guy' while dinging a richardhead every year). then a combination works. but again lay out what people can expect and don't waver.

then finally make sure you go out of your way to be nice and friendly to the people you cut. mookie would see them and run up and shake hands. welcome them to the event. even let them buy him beers :)
make it business, not personal.
 
SJHovey said:
I'm going to throw this question out to our golfers here and see if anyone has some ideas for me.

I serve on the Handicap Committee at the Club where I belong. As I side note, it is about as thankless a volunteer job as it sounds.

The most popular event at our club each year is the member/guest. The stakes in the event are high enough that if someone were inclined to fudge on their handicap there is certainly enough incentive to do so.

The member/guest is a two person scramble tournament played over two days. The handicap formula for each member/guest team is determined as follows:

1. The player's lowest USGA handicap index for the prior twelve months is determined.
2. That handicap index is converted into a course handicap for our course, at the tees we will be playing.
3. The member's course handicap and the guest's course handicap are added together, then divided by four to get the "team" handicap.
4. The team handicap cannot be greater than the best golfer's handicap on that team. For example, if a 2 handicap plays with a guest who is a 14, that team will play at a 2 and not a 4 ((2+14)/4).
5. The 60 teams are divided into six flights. Each flight winner goes into a "shootout" event to determine the ultimate champion, although each flight winner also receives a significant prize.

I've played the event for going on 30 years. For all of those years there has been periodic grumbling about the handicaps of different teams.

Part of the difficulty is the handicapping in a scramble format event.

As a Handicap Committee, we've been grappling with Dean Knuth's suggestion that Club's implement a "points system" in a flighted scramble event. Players on teams that place first, second or third in a flight are assigned a set number of points. Each year a players "points" over the past number of events are totaled, and if that player reaches a certain threshold his or her handicap is adjusted down, depending upon how many points they've achieved.

My question is this. Have any of you, at your own club or in events where you play, tried this points system? If so, what has the reaction been of the players and has it seemed to result in a more level playing field?
Click to expand...
Is this one 18 hole round? Or are they 9 hole matches?

Scramble format? So just 2 guys scrambling, and then posting gross scores that are then adjusted via handicap?
 
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Re: Golf 2016 - I Phil we'll never hear the Rory of the Tiger again.

mookie1995 said:
mookie's old club has always tried to talk through a "points" system like this. whether it is flight winners are automatically promoted or whatnot.

mookie enjoys playing with numbers as such, and as a thank you mookie still investigates and builds flights for the old club's member guest (even though mookie has not been a member for a couple years :))

what old club does is take mookie's investigation inputs (like seeing how one guest posted 4 scores this past Saturday, all high, to increase their ghin). or see where another guest went this past week (middle of july) and posted scores from may to push out low scores and not make it look like there were a number of fresh july scores posted.

old club also had mookie post scores played in the m/g into guest and member's ghins if they failed or forgot to do so.

then at the end of the day the old club's cmte (basically chairman) would arbitrarily set handicaps on players with shady pasts, or with sketchy posting history, or guys who won a couple years in a row by shooting scores well below their expected scores based on handicaps carried into the event.

mookie thinks as long as you institute something and let everyone know. then process it equally (don't let one guy slide because he is a 'good guy' while dinging a richardhead every year). then a combination works. but again lay out what people can expect and don't waver.

then finally make sure you go out of your way to be nice and friendly to the people you cut. mookie would see them and run up and shake hands. welcome them to the event. even let them buy him beers :)
make it business, not personal.
Click to expand...

That's basically what we've done, and what we plan to do again this year. Player's handicaps are adjusted if the committee feels it's warranted, and the player is informed.

One of the things that was appealing to me about the "points" system is that most players have two questions when they are told their handicap is to be adjusted. The first is "why," and we typically have no problem justifying our decision.

The second question is always "why that number of strokes." To me that is the harder answer. It always seemed a bit arbitrary to me. The points system seems to put in place a method whereby the number of strokes by which a player's handicap is to be adjusted is directly related to the number of points they've acquired.
 
Re: Golf 2016 - I Phil we'll never hear the Rory of the Tiger again.

MavHockey14 said:
So just 2 guys scrambling, and then posting gross scores that are then adjusted via handicap? Or is handicap used strictly for flighting?
Click to expand...

The handicap is calculated ahead of time (the two players combined course handicap, divided by four) and used for flighting. However, for purposes of score within that flight we use a team's "net" score.

For example, we have six flights of ten teams each. This year Flight one will consist of ten teams with a range of handicaps running from +1 to a 3. Thus, if the +1 team shoots an actual score of 62, their "net" score is 63 for that day. If the 3 handicap team shoots a 67, their net score is 64. The scores from the two rounds is combined to determine a flight winner. Each flight winner advances to a shootout.
 
Re: Golf 2016 - I Phil we'll never hear the Rory of the Tiger again.

My club, as Mookie knows, must have had some severe issues in the past. Any guest playing for the first time has their index shaved by a point. If they want to play from the blues they are shaved another point. If they play from the whites they are shaved four points. Previous year’s winners must play at the adjusted index from that year unless their index has gone down.
 
theprofromdover said:
My club, as Mookie knows, must have had some severe issues in the past. Any guest playing for the first time has their index shaved by a point. If they want to play from the blues they are shaved another point. If they play from the whites they are shaved four points. Previous year’s winners must play at the adjusted index from that year unless their index has gone down.
Click to expand...

If friggin 62 years old with rotator cuff issues. I'm shooting from the tees between white and red!! :)
 
Re: Golf 2016 - I Phil we'll never hear the Rory of the Tiger again.

joecct said:
If friggin 62 years old with rotator cuff issues. I'm shooting from the tees between white and red!! :)
Click to expand...

I'm 70, had 3 knee replacements (all on the left knee), have had both rotator cuffs and bicep tendons repaired and I won my flight playing from the blues.
 
Re: Golf 2016 - I Phil we'll never hear the Rory of the Tiger again.

theprofromdover said:
I'm 70, had 3 knee replacements (all on the left knee), have had both rotator cuffs and bicep tendons repaired and I won my flight playing from the blues.
Click to expand...

Who says old people never cheat.
 
Re: Golf 2016 - I Phil we'll never hear the Rory of the Tiger again.

theprofromdover said:
I'm 70, had 3 knee replacements (all on the left knee), have had both rotator cuffs and bicep tendons repaired and I won my flight playing from the blues.
Click to expand...

Well sure, you're playing with all new parts.
 
Re: Golf 2016 - I Phil we'll never hear the Rory of the Tiger again.

Bunch of Americans at -9, tied for lead, Tiger at -5, pretty far back.
 
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