Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

[leswp1]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

So, while the President was sitting at a ball game looking happy he knew we were killing off the guy.

Non-flamming question- in previous Presidencies did people expect the President to hunker down at the White House when crises happend? I don't remember that being something until this presidency. Of course he should only be in deep mourning for Belgium, not for the multiple people who are bombed in Africa or other non-European countries. (guessing the average Joe does not know of the other bombings- BBC covers them but they rarely hit the network news)

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

So, while the President was sitting at a ball game looking happy he knew we were killing off the guy.

Non-flamming question- in previous Presidencies did people expect the President to hunker down at the White House when crises happend? I don't remember that being something until this presidency. Of course he should only be in deep mourning for Belgium, not for the multiple people who are bombed in Africa or other non-European countries. (guessing the average Joe does not know of the other bombings- BBC covers them but they rarely hit the network news)

The past seven years isn't quite right, but rather in the past fifteen. Ever since 9/11, everything in the Oval Office is under a microscope of not only whether the end result was right or wrong, but whether the correct level of jubilation or somberness was being expressed at exactly the right time. With the advancements in how quickly we can access data these days, people are expecting their leader to behave exactly how they expect him to behave at exactly the right times.

The war against ISIS was being executed then as it was the previous year. It's not like this one kill was going to end the war.

 

[leswp1]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

The past seven years isn't quite right, but rather in the past fifteen. Ever since 9/11, everything in the Oval Office is under a microscope of not only whether the end result was right or wrong, but whether the correct level of jubilation or somberness was being expressed at exactly the right time. With the advancements in how quickly we can access data these days, people are expecting their leader to behave exactly how they expect him to behave at exactly the right times.

The war against ISIS was being executed then as it was the previous year. It's not like this one kill was going to end the war.

It confuses me how any sentient human being can think president should stop everything any time something bad happens. For goodness sake- GWB told us to go shopping after 9/11.

If a president went to every funeral of police/young child who died of violence, every time a suicide bomber blew something up, every time a soldier died, every time a dignitary died they wouldn't be able to govern at all. Not saying those people don't deserve respect, they do, but where do you draw the line? People in this country may not know South America exists but the rest of the world does. Is he supposed to thumb his nose at them and run home to do.... what?

The worst part is I am not overly fond of some of President O's policies and defending him grates a bit. I want to shake people who have so little comprehension that we are not an island. In this world of infinite knowledge it is just plain astonishing how ignorant people can be about world politics. (Phew. I guess I am aggravated)

 

[geezer]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Here's the editorial that is causing a bunch of "je ne suis pas Charlie" hand-wringing. Is it just Trumpish bigotry, or reality brought to light? (maybe you had to be there to really know - France has a huge problem compared to us as amply evidenced)
Of course this is just the latest version of people pointing out that maybe Islam actually is a rotten religion.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

I wouldn't have written that editorial, and I wouldn't have tried to make that point that way, but I'm not offended by it and taking offense to it would, kinda, prove its point.

I think there are two Facts of Life which lie at the heart of how we got here. The editorial makes the first one, "the first task of the guilty is to blame the innocent." It leaves the equally important contrasting one unsaid. "The first task of the strong is to blame the weak." Unless you understand both operate in the world, you wind up an extremist on one side or the other.

 

[joecct]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Druids
If it harms no one, do it
Protect the weak from the strong.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Here's the editorial that is causing a bunch of "je ne suis pas Charlie" hand-wringing. Is it just Trumpish bigotry, or reality brought to light? (maybe you had to be there to really know - France has a huge problem compared to us as amply evidenced)
Of course this is just the latest version of people pointing out that maybe Islam actually is a rotten religion.

It's not necessarily the religion that's rotten, it's the extremist preachers and their literal interpretations of the holy texts. I'd hedge a bet that Islam still has more members of its clergy living in the 11th century than the other major sects combined.

And no, Kepler, the average SBC pastor howling about the gays going hell doesn't equate (even though it's wrong).

 

[bronconick]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

I think Islam has a lot of specific laws for everything in the Koran, meaning they can claim thousand year old law still applies in 2016. The New Testament doesn't seem to (except Paul in places), leaving extremist Christians to pick through Deutoranamy selectively and and 3,000 year old OT law

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

How many people 'hedging their bets' have actually spent significant time either in the ME and/or hanging with Muslims? I've spent enough time around Christians to recognize the majority don't appreciate the Westboro lifestyle though I recognize that level of crazy exists. If somehow a prominent number of crazy Christain evenagelicals began proselytizing from the political ranks are we absolutely certain a good chunk of Christians wouldn't look the other way? Are many followers of Trump not evidence enough to at least give it thought?

There are a number of Muslims that are a legitimate problem across the globe right now - at an alarming amount - and at present they dwarf anything like WBC. However as someone that has spent significant time in the ME and around Muslims, and as someone watching the Trump crazy train gain momentum, I don't comprehend anyone trying to pin down one religion as more dangerous. Handling ISIS goes beyond religion and God forgive me kicking them in the *** where they stand won't be assisted by handing out Bibles nor burning Qurans.

 

[leswp1]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

How many people 'hedging their bets' have actually spent significant time either in the ME and/or hanging with Muslims? I've spent enough time around Christians to recognize the majority don't appreciate the Westboro lifestyle though I recognize that level of crazy exists. If somehow a prominent number of crazy Christain evenagelicals began proselytizing from the political ranks are we absolutely certain a good chunk of Christians wouldn't look the other way? Are many followers of Trump not evidence enough to at least give it thought?

There are a number of Muslims that are a legitimate problem across the globe right now - at an alarming amount - and at present they dwarf anything like WBC. However as someone that has spent significant time in the ME and around Muslims, and as someone watching the Trump crazy train gain momentum, I don't comprehend anyone trying to pin down one religion as more dangerous. Handling ISIS goes beyond religion and God forgive me kicking them in the *** where they stand won't be assisted by handing out Bibles nor burning Qurans.

Great post! Christians did the crazy in past centuries and in the last 100 yrs. Recent crazies don't kill people (they just don't sell them cake!) but after watching tD manipulate the masses and say things no one in their right mind would have believed acceptable a year ago I have no problem believing it possible.

In this country it is easy to default to believing all Muslims are crazy because so few people have been exposed. Anyone have any experience with what other countries who are mostly Islamic are thinking about this? There are quite a few but we only hear about the crazy radical ones.

 

[joecct]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Christianity has roughly a 600 year head start on Islam. So where was Christianity 600 years ago (1416)? The Catholic church was burning heretics, and the Republic of Ragusa outlawed slavery.

The New World was there, but Europe hadn't found it. The Pope was the most powerful political person in Europe, though the Anti-popes were dying down. (Let's not forget the first Pope John XXIII - Baldasarre Cossa)

Give the Muslims time - they'll figure it out - eventually.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

How many of you have actually read the Quron...and by that I mean read the actual text not some crap on a flyer or on the web?

If you read the words of the Prophet they do not compute what is going on today...in the same way what Jesus said does not compute with the crap done and said in his name.

(and I am a Jew who is not exactly a Muslim sympathizer)

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

If you read the words of the Prophet

They're written on the studio wall.

 

[BoomGoestheDynamite]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

How many of you have actually read the Quron...and by that I mean read the actual text not some crap on a flyer or on the web?

If you read the words of the Prophet they do not compute what is going on today...in the same way what Jesus said does not compute with the crap done and said in his name.

(and I am a Jew who is not exactly a Muslim sympathizer)

I live in a country thats about a third Muslin and I don't entirely agree with this. I've read the Quaran, but a lot of the Hadiths are where the problem lies. There are some fairly frightening exhortations against conversions, blashpheny, and the the way society should be structured, which, if taken literally, would be problematic for adapting to the modern world.

As has been mentioned, Islamic societies tended to be a lot more open than their Medieval Christian counterparts, in terms of religious tolerance and the rights of women, but something happened (which might have been Genghis Khan) that stopped, and in some cases reversed this trend.

Hell, there are stories and pictures of Tehran, Mogadishu, Kabul, etc. in the sixties and seventies with women in Bikinis and bars on every corner. The countrysides never gave up traditional moral systems, but I don't think those places are doomed by being Islamic.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Hell, there are stories and pictures of Tehran, Mogadishu, Kabul, etc. in the sixties and seventies with women in Bikinis and bars on every corner. The countrysides never gave up traditional moral systems, but I don't think those places are doomed by being Islamic.

So basically it's like every other country and religion. The cosmopolitan trading centers on rivers and at crossroads are reformed and liberal, and the parochial sticks are fundamentalist and conservative. Country mouse grows up believing he's special and his religion is special because Mommy and Daddy told him so and nobody he ever met was any different; then he goes to the market and meets people from all over with different beliefs who all believe theirs is The Best, and if he has anything upstairs he's finally realizes, "hey -- turns out it's all bullsh-t." His cousin who stayed home believes the traditionalist crap all his life.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

So basically it's like every other country and religion. The cosmopolitan trading centers on rivers and at crossroads are reformed and liberal, and the parochial sticks are fundamentalist and conservative. Country mouse grows up believing he's special and his religion is special because Mommy and Daddy told him so and nobody he ever met was any different; then he goes to the market and meets people from all over with different beliefs who all believe the same, and if he has anything upstairs he's finally realizes, "hey -- turns out it's all bullsh-t." His cousin who stayed home believes the traditionalist crap all his life.

That was what I saw in Egypt. In Cairo or Alexandria (or the resort areas) you might as well have been in America. (even had a KFC) If you head to the mountains there are Bedouins and from what I was told the further out you got from the metropolitan areas the more you found the Drumpf like Muslims.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

That was what I saw in Egypt. In Cairo or Alexandria (or the resort areas) you might as well have been in America. (even had a KFC) If you head to the mountains there are Bedouins and from what I was told the further out you got from the metropolitan areas the more you found the Drumpf like Muslims.

In Africa they have the highland/lowland divide. The lowlands where the Europeans colonized are integrated into the modern world. The highlands, where they couldn't (or didn't bother to) penetrate, are still stuck back in the 7th century. That's where the breeding grounds are for fundy Muslim terrorists and those fundy Christian numbskulls who murder gays and cut off clits.

If there's one lesson about monotheism that should be obvious after 2000 years it's that it's a friggin' metaphor, people. If you use it as symbolism it has social and personal utility. If you use it as a literal owners manual you just bring the world pain and misery.

 

[geezer]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

How many people 'hedging their bets' have actually spent significant time either in the ME and/or hanging with Muslims? I've spent enough time around Christians to recognize the majority don't appreciate the Westboro lifestyle though I recognize that level of crazy exists. If somehow a prominent number of crazy Christain evenagelicals began proselytizing from the political ranks are we absolutely certain a good chunk of Christians wouldn't look the other way? Are many followers of Trump not evidence enough to at least give it thought?

There are a number of Muslims that are a legitimate problem across the globe right now - at an alarming amount - and at present they dwarf anything like WBC. However as someone that has spent significant time in the ME and around Muslims, and as someone watching the Trump crazy train gain momentum, I don't comprehend anyone trying to pin down one religion as more dangerous. Handling ISIS goes beyond religion and God forgive me kicking them in the *** where they stand won't be assisted by handing out Bibles nor burning Qurans.

For clarity, it's Cruz who is the fundy "christian" who would pass laws from the Bible. Trump is the guy that said "Church? Is that where you eat the little baked goods and drink wine?" (or something like that... anyway, he's clearly the anti-Cruz. Not that I prefer either the hyper-religious (Cruz) or purely secular (Trump) brand of crazy)

 

[geezer]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

So basically it's like every other country and religion. The cosmopolitan trading centers on rivers and at crossroads are reformed and liberal, and the parochial sticks are fundamentalist and conservative. Country mouse grows up believing he's special and his religion is special because Mommy and Daddy told him so and nobody he ever met was any different; then he goes to the market and meets people from all over with different beliefs who all believe theirs is The Best, and if he has anything upstairs he's finally realizes, "hey -- turns out it's all bullsh-t." His cousin who stayed home believes the traditionalist crap all his life.

The bikinis and bars were back in the 1960s & 70s. Tehran and Mogadishu etc. have clearly regressed since and the regression is accelerating. What's to be done?

 

[joecct]

For clarity, it's Cruz who is the fundy "christian" who would pass laws from the Bible. Trump is the guy that said "Church? Is that where you eat the little baked goods and drink wine?" (or something like that... anyway, he's clearly the anti-Cruz. Not that I prefer either the hyper-religious (Cruz) or purely secular (Trump) brand of crazy)

I think "Thou shalt not (kill, lie, steal, commit adultery)" are pretty good laws.