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Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

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Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

ScoobyDoo said:
I'm just all in a panic. We're not friends with Israel and ISIS is coming to a town near me. Oh my gosh what do I do?
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Don't worry, Ebola is slated for a comeback during the next election cycle. It'll probably get you* first.

(* Fewer Americans were killed by Ebola than by New England Patriots.)
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Kepler said:
I think we assume symbolism far too quickly, but if the choice of the Sign of the Times is Dubya vs Obama, I know where I'm more comfortable.

The great irony is on paper Obama is everything the GOP ever said was great about America... as long as it stayed in theory. Turns out they only like an American success story when it's their guy.
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I would be shocked if you didn't see this quite differently than I do.

I don't get that second one at all, but I'll chalk it up to you thinking Obama is a whole lot better in many ways than I do, so you think he meets GOP visions of America somehow.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Kepler said:
I agree with you that GW1, GW2 and Afghanistan aren't on Israel -- the first two were strategic resource wars and the third was the GWOT. Israel mostly uses the US like a weak bully uses his stronger older brother. Israel picks on some even weaker kid, and if anybody gets mad about it Israel whistles and Stumble Baby America lunks into view, drooling missiles. The Israeli right and the US right have formed a mutual admiration society to justify each other's bellicosity, but in each case the nation is pursuing a domestic political program, not a proxy war.
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I guess it goes back to how one views Israel. If one views Israel as the bully looking for trouble, as you posit, then what you say above has some truth to it. If you view Israel as mostly wanting to be left alone, but being aggressive at times to head off problems coming its way, then the above narrative doesn't fit nearly as well.

Certainly close U.S. - Israel ties have been a factor all parties involved in the Middle East have been aware of over time and if the U.S. cut Israel adrift, they would be at much more risk of people picking more fights with them (or under your scenario them picking less fights with others). Of course things like them having nukes will cause folks who would like to see them destroyed to pause a little before trying to push them into the Mediterranean.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Bob Gray said:
Obama is nothing more than a sign of the times, what our nation is becoming and the direction it's headed. I don't hate him, but I can observe his many failures and shortcomings. I know doing so get me the label hater, but that says something about those who throw the hater label around, not me. I'm sure there's worse to come after him, if that makes you feel better.
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Bob, if the world has passes you by, a common refrain I hear from conservatives, isn't that more your fault and not Obama's? 1982 is over. we ain't going back. Right now your goal should be not turning out like Opie, a guy still fighting the social upheaval of the 60's. At some point you have to let it go.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Rover said:
Bob, if the world has passes you by, a common refrain I hear from conservatives, isn't that more your fault and not Obama's? 1982 is over. we ain't going back. Right now your goal should be not turning out like Opie, a guy still fighting the social upheaval of the 60's. At some point you have to let it go.
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Or you could just accept Bob's view that Obama has ruined the universe. Either way it doesn't matter.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Rover said:
Bob, if the world has passes you by, a common refrain I hear from conservatives, isn't that more your fault and not Obama's? 1982 is over. we ain't going back. Right now your goal should be not turning out like Opie, a guy still fighting the social upheaval of the 60's. At some point you have to let it go.
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It's been all down hill since 1620. :mad:
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Bob Gray said:
Obama is nothing more than a sign of the times, what our nation is becoming and the direction it's headed. I don't hate him, but I can observe his many failures and shortcomings. I know doing so get me the label hater, but that says something about those who throw the hater label around, not me. I'm sure there's worse to come after him, if that makes you feel better.
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Bob, I have probably asked this of you before, but when was this golden era for our country?
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

While I dislike Likud and Bibi as much as anyone, this new Liberal meme about Israel is friggin hilarious. You know why Israel doesnt trust the Liberals here, because they will turn on them in a second as they are showing now. At least the Conservatives will protect Israel for an agenda. (The End Times) The Liberals will turn on anyone...

You guys keep puffing your chest out and pretend that Israel holds no value and cant fight on their own. (especially you Kep...big fan of your weak friend bs) I am sure there would be no long term issues in the region if America abandoned Israel and, like in your scenario, was too weak to defend itself and was crushed. (it isnt and it wouldnt be, but lets go with your angle) Americans would not be in any more danger cause our allies of the region would protect us...cause like kumbaya and stuff right? I am sure you will be dying to go over there...

You know why I love political talk, because neither side can see the forest from the trees but they will argue like hell that they know better and are so much more humble and honest than the other. The Cons act pious and responsible, and the Libs act like they care about all life and will protect everything. Truth is the only difference in the posts or the political commentary is the slant. It is a big game of Mad Libs. The Libs would sell out a conservative ally in a heartbeat and the Cons would sell anyone out that dares think on their own.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Handyman said:
While I dislike Likud and Bibi as much as anyone, this new Liberal meme about Israel is friggin hilarious. You know why Israel doesnt trust the Liberals here, because they will turn on them in a second as they are showing now. At least the Conservatives will protect Israel for an agenda. (The End Times) The Liberals will turn on anyone...

You guys keep puffing your chest out and pretend that Israel holds no value and cant fight on their own. (especially you Kep...big fan of your weak friend bs) I am sure there would be no long term issues in the region if America abandoned Israel and, like in your scenario, was too weak to defend itself and was crushed. (it isnt and it wouldnt be, but lets go with your angle) Americans would not be in any more danger cause our allies of the region would protect us...cause like kumbaya and stuff right? I am sure you will be dying to go over there...

You know why I love political talk, because neither side can see the forest from the trees but they will argue like hell that they know better and are so much more humble and honest than the other. The Cons act pious and responsible, and the Libs act like they care about all life and will protect everything. Truth is the only difference in the posts or the political commentary is the slant. It is a big game of Mad Libs. The Libs would sell out a conservative ally in a heartbeat and the Cons would sell anyone out that dares think on their own.
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LOL. Don't trust the liberals? Who cares? There is NOTHING the US can do in the Middle East to fix it. Nothing. Here's my Israel policy in a nutshell. You attack them we're taking out your capital city and turning the entire thing to rubble. Beyond that? There's no point in even being there.

Done.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Handyman said:
You know why Israel doesnt trust the Liberals here, because they will turn on them in a second as they are showing now.
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You are buying into the idea that we're "selling out" Israel if we don't march lock-step with Likud and the far right settlers.

There's a lot more to Israel than those crazies, and there's a lot more to an alliance than blindly approving everything one segment of their population does.

The Middle East is where the notion of "white hats vs black hats" goes to die. Everybody there has blood on their hands and we can't understand any of their perspectives because every issue involving violence (racial tension, religious tension, terrorism, national defense) is turned up to 11. The only Americans who can potentially understand what it's like to live as an Israeli or a Palestinian or a Syrian or an Iraqi might be people in an East LA ghetto who haven't had one hour without gunfire since 1966.

The Revisionist Zionists are terrified and their solution is to keep pushing outwards no matter who gets hurt along the way. That's one solution, and it finds deep resonance with the American far right for some psychological reason. Labor Zionists are terrified and their solution is to try and reach out and compromise, making common cause with moderates on the other side to try to isolate the terrorists. That's another solution, and many of us think it's a lot more practical and likely to calm things down than the constant chest-beating and aggression of the settler movement and its far-far-far right enablers.

Don't try to tell us that preferring one of the two mainstream Israeli political alliances is "anti-Israel" or "abandoning Israel." That's BS right from the Likud-GOP electioneering playbook.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

ScoobyDoo said:
LOL. Don't trust the liberals? Who cares? There is NOTHING the US can do in the Middle East to fix it. Nothing. Here's my Israel policy in a nutshell. You attack them we're taking out your capital city and turning the entire thing to rubble. Beyond that? There's no point in even being there.
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It's a bad neighborhood, but there are things you can do in bad neighborhoods. However, there's an adage that "the military's only job is to protect the cops." If there are no cops, there is no point in having a military presence. That was the enormous flub the Neocons made in Iraq, and the one McCain and his cronies didn't learn from and then wanted Obama to repeat in Syria.

There's lots of stuff we could be doing in the Middle East with diplomacy and economic aid that could have a positive impact. Sending the army into a situation like is just the last refuge of the incompetent, and all it does is kill lots of American soldiers and a whole mess of local civilians and poison relations for a generation. Self-determination is the closest there is to a prime directive. The root of 80% of our problems, imposing the Shah on Iran for 40 years, should have taught us that lesson. Think of how much better things would have gone if we had not used Iran and Egypt (and, for that matter, Israel) as pawns in the Cold War for so long. The blowback from that is still with us.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

burd said:
Bob, I have probably asked this of you before, but when was this golden era for our country?
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And again, there wasn't a golden era, but that doesn't mean things haven't gotten noticeably worse in a variety of areas, for those of us who are paying attention. Not everything is black and white, as I've said many times, though I know that doesn't fit the narrative you try to paint me into every so often.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Rover said:
Bob, if the world has passes you by, a common refrain I hear from conservatives, isn't that more your fault and not Obama's? 1982 is over. we ain't going back. Right now your goal should be not turning out like Opie, a guy still fighting the social upheaval of the 60's. At some point you have to let it go.
Click to expand...
If the world passes me by, going backwards, I'm not obligated to hop on the train headed the wrong way. See how easy that was to flip around?
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Bob Gray said:
And again, there wasn't a golden era, but that doesn't mean things haven't gotten noticeably worse in a variety of areas, for those of us who are paying attention. Not everything is black and white, as I've said many times, though I know that doesn't fit the narrative you try to paint me into every so often.
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LOL. You're like the Grandpa who screams at the kids to get off his lawn.
 
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