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Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

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Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Handyman said:
The Arab Nations use Palestinians as weapons and Israel as means to raise capitol and centralize power. America uses Palestinians as a check on Israel (and to prove they care) and uses Israel as the guard dog and a beach head. (and to get some of that awesome Jewish money they covet so much) Well guess what, the Palestinians dont buy our BS anymore (nor should they) and the Israelis know we are all bark and no bite. No matter who is in charge it is always "we sympathize with what you are going through, but now is a time for peace and to fix things" which sounds great except for the fact that what is good for the goose isnt quite good for the gander. It took 1 attack on America and we stole rights from the people, created a surveillance state that would make H.G. Wells blush and spy on our own allies. And that just didnt happen under W, the great Liberal Wing had control over Congress and the Presidency and spit on the Constitution just as much.
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The problem with you hyperventilating about this as a supposed rebuttal to me is I agree with every word of it. :p

Let's disentangle this from US politics and maybe you'll be able to step back from the edge a bit. The point is that Likud has always wrapped itself in the blue hexagram and cries that ANYBODY -- domestic or foreign, Jew or gentile -- who calls them on their murderous BS is an anti-Semitic surrender monkey who wants to see the Hidden Imam dancing on the glowing nuked remains of Tel Aviv.

That card gets played so hard and so often it was already a thoroughly discredited rhetorical strategy in the 80s. We'll ignore its effect on US politicians and political debates and just concentrate on its (lack of) merit. It's a way for the right in Israel to mobilize their extremist supporters and demonize anyone who might even in principle partially object to their settlement / ghettoization strategy. Plenty of Israelis loathe them for it -- even plenty of Israeli Jews. Telling Bibi there are limits to the US putting up with his constant ratcheting up of rhetoric and violence in no way backs off from the US commitment to an alliance with Israel. It just underlines the simple fact of international diplomacy that in a defensive alliance between X and Y, X is not necessarily obligated to help Y if they haul off and attack Z.
 
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Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Kepler said:
You have that exactly backwards.

Liberals frown about the mistreatment of people and smile about social freedom.

Conservatives smile about the mistreatment of people and frown about social freedom.

So it all kinda evens out. :)
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From pictures I've seen on the government sites listing the representatives, I have it correct.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

burd said:
And halos. Liberals have halos, which you cannot wear with a frown.
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Everybody has a halo. Liberals only want to save your life; conservatives only want to save your soul. :p

(If you're Christian. Otherwise you can just fck off and die.)
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Kepler said:
Since in every age most people have thought "the world is in decline" it is either a psychological reaction to aging or the world has literally been in decline for as long as we have written records. I find the latter hypothesis unlikely.

Here's how I find the world different from 35 years ago, my earliest personal comparison point:

+ there is less overt racism
+ there is less overt sexism
+ there is far, far less homophobia
+ more people have at least the possibility of exposure to more knowledge via the internet
+ there is less violent crime
+ the threat of nuclear annihilation is less
+ people don't just throw their litter everywhere
+ there's much less smoking
+ there appears to be much less "routinized" child and spousal abuse
+ many technologies, particularly in medicine, are far improved

To me, those are all concrete improvements in the quality of life of most people. I would say that objectively the median experience today is superior to the median experience in 1980 both materially (more cool stuff) and morally (fewer people being treated like crap).
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This is way too optimistic, you need to turn in your liberal card or get your attitude adjusted. Remember, the world is about to end any day now in an overheated, extremely stormy, acidified ball of death because of internal combustion engines.
The evilscary Koch brothers are going to buy the United States and enslave us all at a minimum wage that will be too low to buy our daily gruel.
Some people will insist on continuing to have families including babies.
And worst of all, some people are still trying to hold religious beliefs. The world is a bitter, terrible place.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

geezer said:
This is way too optimistic, you need to turn in your liberal card or get your attitude adjusted. Remember, the world is about to end any day now in an overheated, extremely stormy, acidified ball of death because of internal combustion engines.
The evilscary Koch brothers are going to buy the United States and enslave us all at a minimum wage that will be too low to buy our daily gruel.
Some people will insist on continuing to have families including babies.
And worst of all, some people are still trying to hold religious beliefs. The world is a bitter, terrible place.
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You forgot "and people are STILL not free to marry box turtles!" :rolleyes:
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Kepler said:
You forgot "and people are STILL not free to marry box turtles!" :rolleyes:
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I'm missing your point a little bit, but the "complaint" about people having families stems from some goofball I read this morning claiming that if people don't stop having those terrible babies, the food is about to run out. Of course the same mournful laments have been wailing for a hundred years now and we're more well-fed than ever, even though the population has increased significantly.
Yeah, not going to do away with my kids just yet.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

geezer said:
I'm missing your point a little bit, but the "complaint" about people having families stems from some goofball I read this morning claiming that if people don't stop having those terrible babies, the food is about to run out. Of course the same mournful laments have been wailing for a hundred years now and we're more well-fed than ever, even though the population has increased significantly.
Yeah, not going to do away with my kids just yet.
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Population control is part of Dr. Day's warning, and food is one of the factors.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

FlagDUDE08 said:
Population control is part of Dr. Day's warning, and food is one of the factors.
Click to expand...

I'm going to resist the urge to go down this googleverse rabbit hole, and get back to work. :p
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

geezer said:
I'm missing your point a little bit, but the "complaint" about people having families stems from some goofball I read this morning claiming that if people don't stop having those terrible babies, the food is about to run out. Of course the same mournful laments have been wailing for a hundred years now and we're more well-fed than ever, even though the population has increased significantly.
Yeah, not going to do away with my kids just yet.
Click to expand...
You're treading on his liberal utopia idea that is only being held back by the religious and conservatives. Kids. Meh, they're just another cog in the utopian machine.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

And YOU guys are the happy ones? Ooookaayyyy. Unless you all have stock in the company that manufactures the black helicopters for the UN. :D
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Kepler said:
The problem with you hyperventilating about this as a supposed rebuttal to me is I agree with every word of it. :p

Let's disentangle this from US politics and maybe you'll be able to step back from the edge a bit. The point is that Likud has always wrapped itself in the blue hexagram and cries that ANYBODY -- domestic or foreign, Jew or gentile -- who calls them on their murderous BS is an anti-Semitic surrender monkey who wants to see the Hidden Imam dancing on the glowing nuked remains of Tel Aviv.

That card gets played so hard and so often it was already a thoroughly discredited rhetorical strategy in the 80s. We'll ignore its effect on US politicians and political debates and just concentrate on its (lack of) merit. It's a way for the right in Israel to mobilize their extremist supporters and demonize anyone who might even in principle partially object to their settlement / ghettoization strategy. Plenty of Israelis loathe them for it -- even plenty of Israeli Jews. Telling Bibi there are limits to the US putting up with his constant ratcheting up of rhetoric and violence in no way backs off from the US commitment to an alliance with Israel. It just underlines the simple fact of international diplomacy that in a defensive alliance between X and Y, X is not necessarily obligated to help Y if they haul off and attack Z.
Click to expand...

Please, the US has been sticking its nose into battles in the region for how long? Obama has been bombing and drone attacking all over the flipping place and backing much worse regimes that do worse to their own flipping people...yet lets take a stand against Israel because why exactly? Maybe I would buy the evil that is Likud and our need to rally against them if we didn't support countries like Saudi Arabia. Hey that deal that everyone is so up in arms about...the one with Iran...Iran seems to "ratchet up the rhetoric" everytime they talk about how they are going to nuke Israel or destroy the Zionists but hey I am sure that is different. For decades, under both parties we have supported all sorts of leaders pulling all sorts of atrocities (hell we have often provided the weapons and the training!) but we gotta make sure that Israel doesnt go too far right because it might hurt some feelings.

I dislike Bibi, I hate Likud and I am for a 2 state solution. (actually 3) But the difference between the rhetoric he throws out and what Faux News says is that Faux knows it is BS and just ginning up the idiots. I know it isnt kosher to say this but Muslims actually do kill Jews all over the place including in Israel. Does that justify the crap Likud pulls...absolutely not but it does justify the reason people support Likud over the Liberal Parties in Israel. Jews are paranoid and scared because every couple decades some crackpot in the name of prosperity tries and liquidate them. Deal with that for 500 years or so and see if maybe you wouldn't be scared to and just a bit untrustworthy.

FYI I am not hyperventilating, you want to hear real anger talk to my father. The man is a true Dem and a bleeding heart and he wouldnt trust Obama on an Israeli Issue if Obama was in his synagogue and paying him to agree. My dad doesnt trust any politician or really any American when it comes to Israel. Me, I just think the Left needs to leave the Ivory Tower cause they are frauds who act elitist. At least the GOP is out front with their lies and hatred. (cause they arent smart enough to hide it)
 
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Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Handyman said:
Please, the US has been sticking its nose into battles in the region for how long? Obama has been bombing and drone attacking all over the flipping place and backing much worse regimes that do worse to their own flipping people...yet lets take a stand against Israel because why exactly? Maybe I would buy the evil that is Likud and our need to rally against them if we didn't support countries like Saudi Arabia. Hey that deal that everyone is so up in arms about...the one with Iran...Iran seems to "ratchet up the rhetoric" everytime they talk about how they are going to nuke Israel or destroy the Zionists but hey I am sure that is different. For decades, under both parties we have supported all sorts of leaders pulling all sorts of atrocities (hell we have often provided the weapons and the training!) but we gotta make sure that Israel doesnt go too far right because it might hurt some feelings.

I dislike Bibi, I hate Likud and I am for a 2 state solution. (actually 3) But the difference between the rhetoric he throws out and what Faux News says is that Faux knows it is BS and just ginning up the idiots. I know it isnt kosher to say this but Muslims actually do kill Jews all over the place including in Israel. Does that justify the crap Likud pulls...absolutely not but it does justify the reason people support Likud over the Liberal Parties in Israel. Jews are paranoid and scared because every couple decades some crackpot in the name of prosperity tries and liquidate them. Deal with that for 500 years or so and see if maybe you wouldn't be scared to and just a bit untrustworthy.

FYI I am not hyperventilating, you want to hear real anger talk to my father. The man is a true Dem and a bleeding heart and he wouldnt trust Obama on an Israeli Issue if Obama was in his synagogue and paying him to agree. My dad doesnt trust any politician or really any American when it comes to Israel. Me, I just think the Left needs to leave the Ivory Tower cause they are frauds who act elitist. At least the GOP is out front with their lies and hatred. (cause they arent smart enough to hide it)
Click to expand...

Handy, what do you think of the stuff another Minnesotan, Thomas Friedman, writes on the middle east? I can't say I read his column in the NYT regularly--only occasionally, but his book From Beirut to Jerusalem was excellent, I thought.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

I havent read much by him, but I did read his latest column about Bibi and I think he is spot on about a lot of it. Where I think he is off is that he doesnt pay enough credence to the idea that Bibi is a 2 faced flip flopper that would make Al Gore/John Kerry/Mott Romney blush. He backs a 2 state solution when it suits him and rails against it when it helps him win. Hell he already backed off it a little because he knows fear mongering only works before elections not after you win. He is a political hack.

Friedman is right though, Netanyahu is playing right into Iran's hands and I have said similar for years. Even when Israel is in the right they tend to act so brashly and with such harshness they look worse than they should. America of course looks bad because everything they say is a complete contradiction to what they do.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Handyman said:
Please, the US has been sticking its nose into battles in the region for how long? Obama has been bombing and drone attacking all over the flipping place and backing much worse regimes that do worse to their own flipping people...yet lets take a stand against Israel because why exactly? Maybe I would buy the evil that is Likud and our need to rally against them if we didn't support countries like Saudi Arabia. Hey that deal that everyone is so up in arms about...the one with Iran...Iran seems to "ratchet up the rhetoric" everytime they talk about how they are going to nuke Israel or destroy the Zionists but hey I am sure that is different. For decades, under both parties we have supported all sorts of leaders pulling all sorts of atrocities (hell we have often provided the weapons and the training!) but we gotta make sure that Israel doesnt go too far right because it might hurt some feelings.

I dislike Bibi, I hate Likud and I am for a 2 state solution. (actually 3) But the difference between the rhetoric he throws out and what Faux News says is that Faux knows it is BS and just ginning up the idiots. I know it isnt kosher to say this but Muslims actually do kill Jews all over the place including in Israel. Does that justify the crap Likud pulls...absolutely not but it does justify the reason people support Likud over the Liberal Parties in Israel. Jews are paranoid and scared because every couple decades some crackpot in the name of prosperity tries and liquidate them. Deal with that for 500 years or so and see if maybe you wouldn't be scared to and just a bit untrustworthy.

FYI I am not hyperventilating, you want to hear real anger talk to my father. The man is a true Dem and a bleeding heart and he wouldnt trust Obama on an Israeli Issue if Obama was in his synagogue and paying him to agree. My dad doesnt trust any politician or really any American when it comes to Israel. Me, I just think the Left needs to leave the Ivory Tower cause they are frauds who act elitist. At least the GOP is out front with their lies and hatred. (cause they arent smart enough to hide it)
Click to expand...

No problem with any of this. I have no idea why we're arguing, considering we agree on pretty much everything.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Because we got no place else to go? ;)
 
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