Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine
thank you Mr. Pott!
signed, Mr. Kettle.
thank you Mr. Pott!
signed, Mr. Kettle.
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Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine
- Thread starter joecct
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FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine
Whew! It was like pulling teeth, but I finally got an honest answer that wasn't just criticism of the current POTUS.
I agree with 1 and 2, so long as "radical Islam" is distinguished from the peaceful majority. I feel that #3/4/5 would be a repeat of the 2004 Iraq invasion - pump trillions into a war effort, leave a vacuum for an even-worse power to fill. You aren't going to get Europe to contribute after the wasteful disaster that was Iraq. #6 and 7 brings up a good point - how is ISIS being funded and supplied? If they are smart, I doubt it's a centralized source. If that's the case, good luck cutting them off, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. #8 is probably a waste of money - those guys are going to get whacked anyway, and even if they don't, they likely have their own political agendas in a post-ISIS world (see: leave a vacuum for an even-worse power to fill). #9 - we still have de facto MAD. If Iran assembles and fires one nuke, they will be turned into plate glass within a few hours. #11 - If I were China, I'd wonder why I should get involved. I'd probably be content to remain neutral and wait for a winner.
despite your refusal to offer any useful ideas at all, here are mine.
1) Tell the truth. ISIS is run by devout Islamists who believe in a variant of Islam that does not allow any other belief to exist other than theirs. STOP opining on what "is" or "is not" Islam, that is a debate for Muslims to settle among themselves. If you are not a Muslim, what authority do you have to opine anything other than to accept their words at face value?
2) That being said, provide encouragement and support to Muslims who have spoken out clearly against the ISIS strain of Islam (e.g., Egypt's General al-Sisi).
3) form a four-pronged international coalition. It will take "boots on the ground" and a long, sustained campaign, and it will take money, and it will take weapons and arms.
-- Japan has a great reason to act against ISIS, ask them to put up substantial funds and technical support
-- Jordan has a great reason to act against ISIS, provide them with meaningful weapons and effective air support
-- Kurds have a great reason to act against ISIS, provide them with meaningful weapons and effective air support
-- Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iraq have great reasons to act, encourage them to provide logistical and financial support
4) US "boots on the ground" would be counter-productive, as well as politically unpopular: but Special Forces, air support, supplying weapons and intel would be valuable
5) Europe is in similar position to US, get their financial support, Special Forces, weapons supply and intel as well.
6) choke off ISIS' money flows: step up international efforts to find and confiscate their funds
7) cut off ISIS supply lines, disrupt their ability to feed their troops and supply them with weapons
8) provide protection and support for Muslim leaders who speak out against ISIS, help them withstand intimidation with beefed-up security
9) stop giving Iran cover under which they can build all the parts of a nuclear weapon as long as they don't assemble them. That is just nonsense. Iran is happy to sponsor groups like ISIS, Hezbollah, Hamas, etc., we need to put pressure on them, not cave to them as we've been doing.
10) commit for the long run. a few months of token bombing runs are not going to cut it. It will take a long time and sustained hard work.
11) get the Chinese on board: who will they have as trading partners if ISIS is successful? they too will benefit from a world without strife.
The people most directly affected and most at risk should be in the front lines, but only the US has the power and the prestige to pull them all together in a coordinated and sustained manner.
and most important of all, do not say one thing and then do another.
Whew! It was like pulling teeth, but I finally got an honest answer that wasn't just criticism of the current POTUS.
I agree with 1 and 2, so long as "radical Islam" is distinguished from the peaceful majority. I feel that #3/4/5 would be a repeat of the 2004 Iraq invasion - pump trillions into a war effort, leave a vacuum for an even-worse power to fill. You aren't going to get Europe to contribute after the wasteful disaster that was Iraq. #6 and 7 brings up a good point - how is ISIS being funded and supplied? If they are smart, I doubt it's a centralized source. If that's the case, good luck cutting them off, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. #8 is probably a waste of money - those guys are going to get whacked anyway, and even if they don't, they likely have their own political agendas in a post-ISIS world (see: leave a vacuum for an even-worse power to fill). #9 - we still have de facto MAD. If Iran assembles and fires one nuke, they will be turned into plate glass within a few hours. #11 - If I were China, I'd wonder why I should get involved. I'd probably be content to remain neutral and wait for a winner.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine
I don't think they're content, but they would be willing to play the waiting game. Should the Chinese think that ISIS becomes a viable threat to China, then they'll take action, otherwise they'll let everyone else spend their national treasures.
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
P
Priceless
Guest
Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine
No one asked me anything but I have been up front and honest about my opinions - I don't give a crap if they are popular or not. But good try at deflecting!
No one asked me anything but I have been up front and honest about my opinions - I don't give a crap if they are popular or not. But good try at deflecting!
unofan
Well-known member
Sure it does. It gives ISIS footage to use for their next recruitment video.
(The conspiracy nuts out there then note that continues the conflict, perhaps escalates it, and lines the pockets of defense contractors indefinitely).
Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine
For some reason, I do not think that the prospect of Mutually Assured Destruction will deter a suicide bomber....
You are assuming that if Iran develops nuclear weapons, they will not then smuggle them to a surrogate, who then will use it in a way that Iran can deny direct involvement.
For some reason, I do not think that the prospect of Mutually Assured Destruction will deter a suicide bomber....
You are assuming that if Iran develops nuclear weapons, they will not then smuggle them to a surrogate, who then will use it in a way that Iran can deny direct involvement.
P
Priceless
Guest
Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine
Wheeee! The House fails to pass a Homeland Security bill. Funding runs out in 73 minutes.
Wheeee! The House fails to pass a Homeland Security bill. Funding runs out in 73 minutes.
One week reprieve.
So what happens if DHS ceases to exist? Can we go back to FedLand as it stood on 9/10/2001?
FlagDUDE08
Banned
P
Priceless
Guest
Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine
We'll still have laws on the books but no one to enforce them. It will be like the EPA or the White Collar Crimes division of the FBI. So without DHS funding, restrictions will still be in place for what you can carry onto airplanes, but there will be no TSA agent to search you. On the bright side no more long lines at airports, but the guy next to you might have a homemade shiv that he puts between your third and fourth ribs...
We'll still have laws on the books but no one to enforce them. It will be like the EPA or the White Collar Crimes division of the FBI. So without DHS funding, restrictions will still be in place for what you can carry onto airplanes, but there will be no TSA agent to search you. On the bright side no more long lines at airports, but the guy next to you might have a homemade shiv that he puts between your third and fourth ribs...
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine
I love how you make the assumption that someone couldn't just bring that with them now. There's ALWAYS a way.
I love how you make the assumption that someone couldn't just bring that with them now. There's ALWAYS a way.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine
The TSOs who search your bags will still be there. There is emergency funding for "essential personnel." My wife, OTOH, will get paid leave. So sure, shut it down for as long as you want -- it's a net win for my family.
The TSOs who search your bags will still be there. There is emergency funding for "essential personnel." My wife, OTOH, will get paid leave. So sure, shut it down for as long as you want -- it's a net win for my family.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine
Plus, perhaps like the previous shutdown, the already depleted military will be used to enforce regulations, i.e. martial law.
The TSOs who search your bags will still be there. There is emergency funding for "essential personnel." My wife, OTOH, will get paid leave. So sure, shut it down for as long as you want -- it's a net win for my family.
Plus, perhaps like the previous shutdown, the already depleted military will be used to enforce regulations, i.e. martial law.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine
Nah, we only get martial law when people take to the streets against globalist treaties that undercut American labor and environmental law. Because that sort of protest is, ya know, "dangerous."
Nah, we only get martial law when people take to the streets against globalist treaties that undercut American labor and environmental law. Because that sort of protest is, ya know, "dangerous."
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine
Boston had martial law after the pressure cooker incident. Remember that language manipulation is part of the takeover; you have to call it something else in order to ensure the sheeple don't freak.
Boston had martial law after the pressure cooker incident. Remember that language manipulation is part of the takeover; you have to call it something else in order to ensure the sheeple don't freak.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine
I completely agree that Boston was a case where the mask slipped. At the end of the day, force and intimidation get the ruling class over the rough patches. Finesse and salesmanship get them through the 99% of the time when people sleep.
Everybody always jumps to Hitler and a State Party when talking about the fascist direction of the American plutocracy, but that's a very poor comparison -- it is too European to apply to the US. A much better comparison is Putin and his oligarch buddies. In Russia, and in today's America, laws and enforcement are in the service of the accumulation of wealth by the well-connected. Policy has no other purpose -- there are no political goals other than keeping the gravy train rolling. The party difference is still very important if for no other reason than socialism treats the gen pop far better than fascism and socialist powers are less belligerent than fascist powers. But we shouldn't think that voting D (socialist) vs R (fascist) will fix the systemic corruption that feeds nearly all our wealth and treasure to the 1%. Dental care is important, but it won't help your broken leg.
I completely agree that Boston was a case where the mask slipped. At the end of the day, force and intimidation get the ruling class over the rough patches. Finesse and salesmanship get them through the 99% of the time when people sleep.
Everybody always jumps to Hitler and a State Party when talking about the fascist direction of the American plutocracy, but that's a very poor comparison -- it is too European to apply to the US. A much better comparison is Putin and his oligarch buddies. In Russia, and in today's America, laws and enforcement are in the service of the accumulation of wealth by the well-connected. Policy has no other purpose -- there are no political goals other than keeping the gravy train rolling. The party difference is still very important if for no other reason than socialism treats the gen pop far better than fascism and socialist powers are less belligerent than fascist powers. But we shouldn't think that voting D (socialist) vs R (fascist) will fix the systemic corruption that feeds nearly all our wealth and treasure to the 1%. Dental care is important, but it won't help your broken leg.
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