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Gender Studies I

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BassAle said:
he said which is absolutely true. No medication will be approved if the placebo group does as well as the drug group
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Yes, that part is true enough. But then he went on to say that placebos were ineffective “by definition,” which is where he took a 180 from Correctville.
 
LynahFan said:
Yes, that part is true enough. But then he went on to say that placebos were ineffective “by definition,” which is where he took a 180 from Correctville.
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Nope... You go ahead and Google how many sugar pills were ever prescribed as an effective treatment for anything, then get back to us on that.

Truly, some subjects might possibly will themselves to live somewhat longer simply by dint of a glimmer of hope, but placebos have never cured Jack, and the placebo-effect (even if it exists) isn't even remotely quantifiable.
 
Fishman'81 said:
Nope... You go ahead and Google how many sugar pills were ever prescribed as an effective treatment for anything, then get back to us on that.

Truly, some subjects might possibly will themselves to live somewhat longer simply by dint of a glimmer of hope, but placebos have never cured Jack, and the placebo-effect (even if it exists) isn't even remotely quantifiable.
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Uh, that's not the claim being made about placebos and completely misunderstands their purpose.
 
Fishman'81 said:
Nope... You go ahead and Google how many sugar pills were ever prescribed as an effective treatment for anything, then get back to us on that.

Truly, some subjects might possibly will themselves to live somewhat longer simply by dint of a glimmer of hope, but placebos have never cured Jack, and the placebo-effect (even if it exists) isn't even remotely quantifiable.
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We should probably take this over to the Medical thread, but....

Study Suggests Common Knee Surgery's Effect Is Purely Placebo - Scientific American

There you go - an actual, approved procedure found to be no more effective than a placebo surgery, and yet the procedure is still authorized. So much for "treatments have to be more effective than placebo or they won't be approved."

There's no such thing as "the" placebo effect that can be quantified. You may as well ask what "the" effectiveness of medication is. That's too broad of a question to answer. But when you ask things like, "what's the effectiveness of this placebo relative to that procedure applied to these types of patients at a particular stage of disease," then you can make some progress.
 
The other day I was starting to feel down about Rand, MTG, and more, but I remembered two things:

Rand, MTG, and those opposed to my existence are meat, and in the words of Master Shake, "I was not put on this Earth to listen to meat."

I remembered all my adopted Mamas and let them lift me.
 
LynahFan said:
We should probably take this over to the Medical thread, but....

Study Suggests Common Knee Surgery's Effect Is Purely Placebo - Scientific American

There you go - an actual, approved procedure found to be no more effective than a placebo surgery, and yet the procedure is still authorized. So much for "treatments have to be more effective than placebo or they won't be approved."
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Did I ever say that an ineffective procedure should be approved? No. Ineffective procedures have been approved for decades, but that fact doesn't render them effective, and I never made that argument.

Do you follow? Good God.
 
Actually, the only things I find more annoying than Fishy are those who call Wednesday "hump day" and of course, all Sandra Bullock movies
 
Fishman'81 said:
Did I ever say that an ineffective procedure should be approved? No. Ineffective procedures have been approved for decades, but that fact doesn't render them effective, and I never made that argument.

Do you follow? Good God.
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My bad - it was BassAle who said, "No medication will be approved if the placebo group does as well as the drug group." If the placebo group and the drug group both have similar statistically significant improvements over doing nothing, then physicians *ought* to be prescribing placebos, in my opinion. Whatever works, baby.
 
LynahFan said:
My bad - it was BassAle who said, "No medication will be approved if the placebo group does as well as the drug group." If the placebo group and the drug group both have similar statistically significant improvements over doing nothing, then physicians *ought* to be prescribing placebos, in my opinion. Whatever works, baby.
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what I said is correct. for FDA approval of a drug, the data has to show that it is more effective than the control group (placebo).

I think the placebo affect is probably more pronounced in things like pain where people think they feel better, but it's not quantifiable. In a study of an asthma drug, some patients that got the placebo inhaler claimed to feel better, but did no better on quantitative breathing tests so it was simply a matter of how they perceived their breathing difficulty (which remained unchanged). Also things like blood pressure, where state of mind can have a clear affect on a quantitative measurement.

There are plenty of "over the counter" placebos (vitamins, nutritional supplements, homeopathic remedies). Doctor's don't need to prescribe snake oil.
 
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BassAle said:
what I said is correct. for FDA approval of a drug, the data has to show that it is more effective than the control group (placebo).
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Agree - if the drug and placebo are equally effective and both better than nothing, it is the placebo and not the drug that should be approved.

I think the placebo affect is probably more pronounced in things like pain where people think they feel better, but it's not quantifiable. In a study of an asthma drug, some patients that got the placebo inhaler claimed to feel better, but did no better on quantitative breathing tests so it was simply a matter of how they perceived their breathing difficulty (which remained unchanged). Also things like blood pressure, where state of mind can have a clear affect on a quantitative measurement.
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This makes sense to me - "effective" has to be carefully and precisely defined for each malady that we're trying to cure.

There are plenty of "over the counter" placebos (vitamins, nutritional supplements, homeopathic remedies). Doctor's don't need to prescribe snake oil.
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I didn't say to prescribe snake oil. The point of this line of research is that doctors can and should be honest about what they are prescribing - exactly the oppose of snake oil. "So, BassAle, research has shown that taking a vitamin pill every morning produces a statistically significant improvement for people with your condition, so I recommend that you follow that course of action."
 
Kepler said:
Society is more and more an ally. It's a few high profile sh-tburgers and their bacteria-level fan boyz who are the haters, and they are dying off.

The homophobes' and transphobes' grandkids will spit on their graves. One reason they are so pathetic and hate-filled is they can sense already how irrelevant they are.

Nobody remembers segregationists and anti-Semites fondly. And that's what these cretins are the equivalent of.

They are cultural roadkill. Their disease will die with them.
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You need to get out and see America some more because I really don’t think the nation matches your ideas about it. The die-out of such hatred takes long than just a few generations.
 
As a trans woman, and in discussing this with other trans people... none of us asked for a rebranded Potato Head. It wasn't even on our priority list, and if it was, we wouldn't assign it a number because it was so low.
The fact Republicans used this to renew attacks against my community is vulgar, though not surprising. Something tells me Republicans know they lost on the LGB aspect of things, so they will grunt, wail, and swing wildly towards the T until soundly defeated. They know they're losing and losing badly on us as it is, and so they lash out.

Until the day they are soundly defeated, it does me no good to dwell on their comments. I know I have lots of Mama Bears and a Metal Girl Alliance with members around the world. I'll sit with them and let them lift me.
 
MissThundercat said:
Something tells me Republicans know they lost on the LGB aspect of things, so they will grunt, wail, and swing wildly towards the T until soundly defeated.
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I mean, yeah, this shouldn't even be a hunch about their plan, this is as sure as anything it's all they have left.
 
St. Clown said:
You need to get out and see America some more because I really don’t think the nation matches your ideas about it. The die-out of such hatred takes long than just a few generations.
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The 10% at the bottom of the silt trap will never change, but they don't matter. The bottom 10% of America (the bottom 20% of conservatives) are exactly as racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. as they ever were or ever will be. They are incapable of learning or growing.

I'm not talking about them, they are just the garbage we have to carry as a society. Until FTL.
 
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