So it’s not that you’re *choosing* to be a dick, nature is *forcing* you to be a dick?
That’s pathetic. If you want to be a dick, at least own it.
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Gender Studies I
- Thread starter Kepler
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That’s pathetic. If you want to be a dick, at least own it.
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
So, if I choose to identify as whatever suits me on a given day, that amounts to a scintilla of sense to you?
Explain.
No, that question does not make any sense. Try again.
unofan
Well-known member
As previously stated, that's not how it works, that doesn't happen, and it's not real. But even if it was, faking being a transwomen to get into the locker room would be treated the exact same as faking being a biological woman to get into the same locker room.
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Have someone read you "The Emperor's New Clothes"...
If anyone (say, MThunder) is committed to employing the surgical options, that's an entirely legitimate approach. I'm all for people having that option, and I certainly respect it.
But gender isn't chosen on a whim. Nor is race, Nationality, nor eye-color. Genetics are factual.
I despise the tRumpie mind-set, but I do grasp why they call us "lib-tards" regarding this issue.
It's utterly silly to contend that we can just opt for any of the above.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Wait, you think MT chose to be a woman? And on a whim no less?
(MT, I don’t mean to speak for you, so forgive me if I’m overstepping)
My impression of MT is that this wasn’t a choice. And even if it was, this has been an extremely long, exhausting, arduous, rollercoaster of a journey. If you describe anything she’s gone through as a whim, you need a fucking dictionary. I don’t get the impression she ‘opted’ for anything. That’s malicious demeaning nonsense.
MissThundercat
Are the cis okay?
Thank you.
I wrote this for one of my MSW classes, discussing a high attempted suicide rate in my community.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tajclEHSPlq42y7eI8Iov9siSdRK_d7e/view?usp=drivesdk
wolverineTrumpet
not particularly bad
As replied earlier, no one "chooses" to be a gender "on a whim".
If that were the case, I would have chosen to be a boy in 1995 gym class so that I could take wrestling instead of dancing.
If that were the case, I would have chosen to be a boy in 1995 gym class so that I could take wrestling instead of dancing.
I work at a factory in the Midwest and the only thing I said to a transgender woman in the restroom here was to ask if she knew how to open the soap dispenser. I would have said the same thing to anyone in the restroom at the time as I was trying to replace the soap and couldn't figure it out ( I are engineer! )
MissThundercat
Are the cis okay?
"And what that "Bob" dude did for me was protected me for 35+ years. He ran marathons to get me out of harm's way. He got a job at Sam's Club because he knew a supervisor there would understand and be supportive when Amber Marie could take over. He brought me to Holland because help would be here, including people who were just like me. He took us out of church in Muskegon because that place did not treat trans people kindly. He warmed up to Alicia and Donna at Tyson because they understood. He befriended the HR manager at Tyson to ensure I would be protected for the most part. He kept going back to Grand Rapids for solace because 5 particular women saw something was up and Bob was never happy. And those 5 women, not knowing what else to do or ever having been introduced to this before, stayed with Bob until he could get the help I needed.
And Bob, as I was learning to stand up, walk around, stretch my legs, and get ready to face the world, stayed with me until the team at Out On the Lakeshore and Gender SAFE could take me in and give me the help I needed. He was elated when the teams at Grace Episcopal and PFLAG joined the ranks of support for me. And in the time between November 2017 and March 2018, Bob stayed nearby in case I needed anything else. But on March 13, 2018, Bob knew it was just about time for him and I to completely part ways. He was in the room at Out On the Lakeshore the day I was approved for hormones, as I excitedly shared the news with the entire OOTL Community Center Team. And he smiled. He knew the next day, he would fade to gray and disappear completely. On March 14, 2018, he and I walked to the CVS counter at Target, we grabbed my hormones, and we left for home. We walked up the stairs to my apartment, and knowing he would be gone in a few minutes, said "let's do this." He observed as I took my first dose of Spiro and applied the patch of Estradiol. As I sat in a dining chair, feeling a sense of relief that the journey was over, Bob completely faded out, knowing his work here and his time here were done, proud of me and knowing I'd be working wonders soon!"- written by me, 7/20/2020
Most every poster has seen the change and marked improvement in my life since I started hormonal transition (I take estradiol valerate injection). I received an added bump when I had my breast augmentation. My Instagram shows all this. On the Internet, there is a picture of Trumpet and I at the 2010 Regionals in Grand Rapids. I've come a long way since then.
But at this point, there's no convincing someone who's mind is made up. Let the bigot post 90 minute videos to his Facebook page of him sitting in his truck complaining how the world is changing and he doesn't like it. The rest of us are going for pancakes and coffee.
And uh... surgery? I already dropped $6175 for my breasts. University of Michigan wants about $60,000 for confirmation, and I'll need several bills paid while I'm recovering from surgery and not working. Venmo and PayPal available upon request.
And Bob, as I was learning to stand up, walk around, stretch my legs, and get ready to face the world, stayed with me until the team at Out On the Lakeshore and Gender SAFE could take me in and give me the help I needed. He was elated when the teams at Grace Episcopal and PFLAG joined the ranks of support for me. And in the time between November 2017 and March 2018, Bob stayed nearby in case I needed anything else. But on March 13, 2018, Bob knew it was just about time for him and I to completely part ways. He was in the room at Out On the Lakeshore the day I was approved for hormones, as I excitedly shared the news with the entire OOTL Community Center Team. And he smiled. He knew the next day, he would fade to gray and disappear completely. On March 14, 2018, he and I walked to the CVS counter at Target, we grabbed my hormones, and we left for home. We walked up the stairs to my apartment, and knowing he would be gone in a few minutes, said "let's do this." He observed as I took my first dose of Spiro and applied the patch of Estradiol. As I sat in a dining chair, feeling a sense of relief that the journey was over, Bob completely faded out, knowing his work here and his time here were done, proud of me and knowing I'd be working wonders soon!"- written by me, 7/20/2020
Most every poster has seen the change and marked improvement in my life since I started hormonal transition (I take estradiol valerate injection). I received an added bump when I had my breast augmentation. My Instagram shows all this. On the Internet, there is a picture of Trumpet and I at the 2010 Regionals in Grand Rapids. I've come a long way since then.
But at this point, there's no convincing someone who's mind is made up. Let the bigot post 90 minute videos to his Facebook page of him sitting in his truck complaining how the world is changing and he doesn't like it. The rest of us are going for pancakes and coffee.
And uh... surgery? I already dropped $6175 for my breasts. University of Michigan wants about $60,000 for confirmation, and I'll need several bills paid while I'm recovering from surgery and not working. Venmo and PayPal available upon request.
I'll take, "Things my gender privilege has insulated me from having to think about" for $60,000, Alex.
I'd almost forgotten your former protector's name - I really had to think for a few seconds to come up with your old board handle. You're just fully Amber/MissT to me.
I'd almost forgotten your former protector's name - I really had to think for a few seconds to come up with your old board handle. You're just fully Amber/MissT to me.
MissThundercat
Are the cis okay?
Day 1 HRT: https://www.instagram.com/p/BgUQpDjBXsw/
Almost 3 years later: https://www.instagram.com/p/CLccebKn30K/
And Lynah's right, it's been one hell of a journey. But I wouldn't take it back or change a thing.
Almost 3 years later: https://www.instagram.com/p/CLccebKn30K/
And Lynah's right, it's been one hell of a journey. But I wouldn't take it back or change a thing.
MissThundercat
Are the cis okay?
Oh, and before I pay the $60,000? I have to get letters from two therapists, one with a PhD, saying I have gender dysphoria. Those letters must be approved by the hospital performing the surgery.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Is that insurance or because you live in JesusDerpistan?
MissThundercat
Are the cis okay?
WPATH Standards of Care 7. These standards were in place to prevent so-called "transition regret," but few people actually regret transition regret. More people reverse their transition due to societal pressure/family maltreatment than anything else.
which could mean the standards work to prevent transition regret, right?
MissThundercat
Are the cis okay?
Swing and a miss.
Research, things I actually linked to, show the few (0.8%) cases of regret come from pervasive societal discrimination and family maltreatment.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18iUFId-PkMo4j1-qVyr4mVDui5cPbga5/view?usp=sharing
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Slap Shot
I got nothing
Thank you for sharing, Amber.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Right, but his point is that you can't prove something doesn't work by absence of the thing it's trying to remove.
Think of a filter. You want the filter to remove particles. If it does work, the expectation is they won't be in the water coming out of the filter. However, if you only test the water coming out of the filter, you can't tell if it's working or not. The particles may not exist in the first place. You would need to test the water coming into the filter and coming out.
So in this case, the question is whether those cases of regret did or did not exist BEFORE these rules were in place. I'm guessing that data doesn't exist because the rules have been in place for so long. (I can't actually read the google docs right now since my company blocks all google docs, drives, etc.)
All of that being said, perhaps it's time we remove the rules or pilot their removal. Because if they are effective and helping filter those cases out, perhaps there's a value there. Because it's not like you can just go back - that money is gone. The balance of course is not putting up too many barriers for someone to match their identity to their body. I think it's probably important to have both.
I don't know where to draw that line nor is it my decision. Because how different is this to someone wanting an abortion and forcing them to get a transvaginal ultrasound and look at their baby's face? Which I'm vehemently opposed to. So I'm really of two minds on this.
Edit: I think the bottom line is, they aren't going to let someone go through highly invasive surgery with GA without a need. On the other hand... we have that cat lady. So who knows.
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MissThundercat
Are the cis okay?
The TL;DR of the Google doc is this: a tiny percentage of those who experience "transition regret" actually regret it for medical reasons (this is not what they had in mind). Early research is promising: Mt. Sinai found 45% of patients were ready for surgical transition in a patient-centered model vs. 13% of those on WPATH standards. However, further research needs to be done and pilot programs need to be evaluated. And informed consent is not "I want surgery" and BOOM, surgery/hormones are granted. It is a long and detailed discussion of the risks involved vs. the benefits, then asking the patient "after hearing all that, do you still want to do it?"
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
FWIW, I completely accept the description of your own experience, and I absolutely support you in your journey to getting where you need to be.
What seems to have been lost in the fray here was my original point: simply choosing a gender on a given day, and via what agenda that particular day might obtain, is problematic in a broad social sense... I certainly stand by my assertion that certain cis (yeah, I said that!) men will abuse that privilege on occasion. I'm old enough to have seen that sort of thing many times.
Yet, as I've already stated, you are committed, and not an opportunist. You are walking the walk.
I'm gonna give this thing a rest; some people on this thread will have to look for another pinata. But I certainly wish you happiness.
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