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Gender Neutral
- Thread starter SonofSouthie
- Start date
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Gender Neutral
And yet, the word is used interchangeably on various applications. Trying to re-define again?
And yet, the word is used interchangeably on various applications. Trying to re-define again?
And don't they ask you what's your baby's sex? Maybe it is scientifically incorrect, but it is common usage.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: Gender Neutral
Then when biologists sex a turtle...
Sorry, but many words have more than one meaning. It's unlike what the definition of the word is... is.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/sex?s=t
noun
1. either the male or female division of a species, especially as differentiated with reference to the reproductive functions.
2. the sum of the structural and functional differences by which the male and female are distinguished, or the phenomena or behavior dependent on these differences.
3. the instinct or attraction drawing one sex toward another, or its manifestation in life and conduct.
4. coitus.
5. genitalia.
verb (used with object)
6. to ascertain the sex of, especially of newly-hatched chicks.
Verb phrases
7. sex up, Informal.
a. to arouse sexually: The only intent of that show was to sex up the audience.
b. to increase the appeal of; to make more interesting, attractive, or exciting: We've decided to sex up the movie with some battle scenes.
Idioms
8. to have sex, to engage in sexual intercourse.
Then when biologists sex a turtle...
Sorry, but many words have more than one meaning. It's unlike what the definition of the word is... is.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/sex?s=t
noun
1. either the male or female division of a species, especially as differentiated with reference to the reproductive functions.
2. the sum of the structural and functional differences by which the male and female are distinguished, or the phenomena or behavior dependent on these differences.
3. the instinct or attraction drawing one sex toward another, or its manifestation in life and conduct.
4. coitus.
5. genitalia.
verb (used with object)
6. to ascertain the sex of, especially of newly-hatched chicks.
Verb phrases
7. sex up, Informal.
a. to arouse sexually: The only intent of that show was to sex up the audience.
b. to increase the appeal of; to make more interesting, attractive, or exciting: We've decided to sex up the movie with some battle scenes.
Idioms
8. to have sex, to engage in sexual intercourse.
MinnesotaNorthStar
Minding the gap
Re: Gender Neutral
I'm pretty sure UncleRay was making a joke, guys...
I'm pretty sure UncleRay was making a joke, guys...
Re: Gender Neutral
Young children are impressionable and malleable, and often change and evolve before they reach adolescence, let alone adulthood.
The hormones released during puberty would generally have a tremendous impact on gender between childhood and adulthood. Latent traits might not manifest themselves until then.
Many six-year old boys think girls are "icky" and should be avoided like "the cooties," far fewer sixteen-year old boys think so.
Generally, I don't think any young child should be "locked in" to one particular choice, based on what we know of childhood development. Give them room to learn, live, and grow, and certainly wait until after puberty at the earliest.
(granted, there will always be exceptions outside the third standard deviation; and even 0.1% of a large population is still a sizable number).
Young children are impressionable and malleable, and often change and evolve before they reach adolescence, let alone adulthood.
The hormones released during puberty would generally have a tremendous impact on gender between childhood and adulthood. Latent traits might not manifest themselves until then.
Many six-year old boys think girls are "icky" and should be avoided like "the cooties," far fewer sixteen-year old boys think so.
Generally, I don't think any young child should be "locked in" to one particular choice, based on what we know of childhood development. Give them room to learn, live, and grow, and certainly wait until after puberty at the earliest.
(granted, there will always be exceptions outside the third standard deviation; and even 0.1% of a large population is still a sizable number).
Patman
Rodent of Unusual Size
That may be your religious belief but the rest of us look towards science for the answer
Patman
Rodent of Unusual Size
No, I think a lot of people want to change it up to deal with the issues in their own world. Gender and sex have been ipso facto considered the same until the last 15 years
Patman
Rodent of Unusual Size
And you're convinced this is more than a psychiatric malady?
Edit: "I identify as blank" means you want to be afforded a certain cultural status along with that indentification. Cultural status doesn't let you choose your own bathroom
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
wolverineTrumpet
not particularly bad
Re: Gender Neutral
I've hated being female since a young age. I wanted to be a boy. I wanted to hang out with the boys. I felt awful in 4th grade when my friend had a sleepover birthday party and my Mom had to pick me up at 10 pm while everyone else stayed at the party, because I was a girl (that friend later in life turned out to be gay...so I still don't know why a 9 yr old can't spend the night with other 9 year olds). It was worse when puberty hit and many of my friends no longer wanted to hang out with me because I was a girl, and they though girls don't like sports or video games or whatever boys like.
When I took a psychology class in college and we learned about gender roles, I told the guy I was dating (taking the class with me) that based on that lesson I'm a gay man. Maybe I am, I still identify more with male gender roles than female. I've accepted my female body, though I still often hate it. I'm happily married to a man, but he understands that I am not, and will never be, a girly girl.
I get offended when I'm in a group that is addressed as "ladies" (maybe it's the particular person at work that says it, but it always feels demeaning). I get angry when a fast food worker asks if someone wants a "girl toy" or a "boy toy" with their kid's meal. Why can't it just be do you want the doll or the truck? Why are Legos marketed to girls all pink and purple and full of characters and flowers instead of cool buildings and vehicles?
In my ideal world we wouldn't be treated differently and classified based on things like gender or race. We'd all be treated as humans.
This is what I struggled with as a child. I honestly wonder if I were growing up today what I would become. I was always a "tomboy". I preferred playing with Hot Wheels and Ninja Turtles than Barbie. I hated wearing dresses and fought my mother over it all the time. She wanted to play with my hair, I just wanted it out of my face for when I was running around having Nerf wars.
I've hated being female since a young age. I wanted to be a boy. I wanted to hang out with the boys. I felt awful in 4th grade when my friend had a sleepover birthday party and my Mom had to pick me up at 10 pm while everyone else stayed at the party, because I was a girl (that friend later in life turned out to be gay...so I still don't know why a 9 yr old can't spend the night with other 9 year olds). It was worse when puberty hit and many of my friends no longer wanted to hang out with me because I was a girl, and they though girls don't like sports or video games or whatever boys like.
When I took a psychology class in college and we learned about gender roles, I told the guy I was dating (taking the class with me) that based on that lesson I'm a gay man. Maybe I am, I still identify more with male gender roles than female. I've accepted my female body, though I still often hate it. I'm happily married to a man, but he understands that I am not, and will never be, a girly girl.
I get offended when I'm in a group that is addressed as "ladies" (maybe it's the particular person at work that says it, but it always feels demeaning). I get angry when a fast food worker asks if someone wants a "girl toy" or a "boy toy" with their kid's meal. Why can't it just be do you want the doll or the truck? Why are Legos marketed to girls all pink and purple and full of characters and flowers instead of cool buildings and vehicles?
It may also mean I don't fit into your societal constructs and expectations of a certain gender. Please treat me with dignity anyway.
In my ideal world we wouldn't be treated differently and classified based on things like gender or race. We'd all be treated as humans.
Re: Gender Neutral
um, I don't think so, I think the difference goes back millennia in some cultures. For example, eunuchs, would generally have been considered a third gender....
um, I don't think so, I think the difference goes back millennia in some cultures. For example, eunuchs, would generally have been considered a third gender....
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Gender Neutral
All of these experiences point out the pitfalls of society reserving for itself the right to characterize how you should behave, and even how you should feel. We have come far enough now that if society arrogated to itself those powers regarding ethnicity or skin color, everyone would tell it to take a flying leap. Gender is different because it so closely tracks with Man In The Sky myths, and also because it hits home, and so makes the bully-cowards most afraid. Much of the country has been working through this for two generations and has already figured it out, but the usual dark corners are always the last to be fumigated.
My advice is people should be who they want to be, and if you run into somebody who has a problem with that, get away from them, they're small-minded and toxic. There's a reason the most interesting and talented people in every generation head for the cities.
All of these experiences point out the pitfalls of society reserving for itself the right to characterize how you should behave, and even how you should feel. We have come far enough now that if society arrogated to itself those powers regarding ethnicity or skin color, everyone would tell it to take a flying leap. Gender is different because it so closely tracks with Man In The Sky myths, and also because it hits home, and so makes the bully-cowards most afraid. Much of the country has been working through this for two generations and has already figured it out, but the usual dark corners are always the last to be fumigated.
My advice is people should be who they want to be, and if you run into somebody who has a problem with that, get away from them, they're small-minded and toxic. There's a reason the most interesting and talented people in every generation head for the cities.
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Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Gender Neutral
I did not expect you to be sensible about this. Huh.
There are all sorts of gender rainbows in different societies. SE Asians regard hermaphrodites as holy; Teiresias was considered to be the only person who understood human psychology because he/she had lived as both a man and a woman; Central Asian cultures (possibly from Greek roots) consider "tops" in homosexual coupling to be unproblematic; the Vedas talk openly about every possible permutation under the sun, and on and on. Catholic missionaries found all sorts of "perversions" when they left Europe; evidently it never occurred to them they were the ones who were perverted for insisting on a rigid, binary definition of sexual identity.
I did not expect you to be sensible about this. Huh.
There are all sorts of gender rainbows in different societies. SE Asians regard hermaphrodites as holy; Teiresias was considered to be the only person who understood human psychology because he/she had lived as both a man and a woman; Central Asian cultures (possibly from Greek roots) consider "tops" in homosexual coupling to be unproblematic; the Vedas talk openly about every possible permutation under the sun, and on and on. Catholic missionaries found all sorts of "perversions" when they left Europe; evidently it never occurred to them they were the ones who were perverted for insisting on a rigid, binary definition of sexual identity.
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FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Gender Neutral
Many arguments I've heard against homosexuality are based around "nature". Don't forget the hermaphrodite: biological sex chromosomes of "XXY". Sure, they may be classified as men for the same reason of plural articles you use in Central European languages, but they are the true "bisexual". Even the "allies" will mislabel them as gay.
Many arguments I've heard against homosexuality are based around "nature". Don't forget the hermaphrodite: biological sex chromosomes of "XXY". Sure, they may be classified as men for the same reason of plural articles you use in Central European languages, but they are the true "bisexual". Even the "allies" will mislabel them as gay.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: Gender Neutral
The term bisexual denotes a sexual attraction to both men and women. Most hermies have an attraction to one or the other. Back in the 90s and earlier, when a hermaphrodite was born, a doctor would ask the parents whether the child should be raised as a boy or a girl, and perform the surgery if the parents made that choice. Most often, the doctors would suggest raising the child as a girl for various medical reasons (largely hormone driven), but that seems to be changing, and they're offering opinions regarding how the child should be raised less and less often.
The term bisexual denotes a sexual attraction to both men and women. Most hermies have an attraction to one or the other. Back in the 90s and earlier, when a hermaphrodite was born, a doctor would ask the parents whether the child should be raised as a boy or a girl, and perform the surgery if the parents made that choice. Most often, the doctors would suggest raising the child as a girl for various medical reasons (largely hormone driven), but that seems to be changing, and they're offering opinions regarding how the child should be raised less and less often.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Gender Neutral
The rationalizations used in a given period to reinforce bigotry reflect whatever the most prestigious brand of truth is for that culture during that time. So in the US up to the mid 19th century knuck arguments would be phrased in the language of religion, then from the mid 19th through the mid 20th they would use the language of public health, and since the mid 20th they employ the terms of individual psychological well-being.
But the actuality is they just want to enforce whatever crackpot idiocy their parents and pastors passed down to them. The "reasons" are a pretext. If slavery had survived to the present day it would be defended in hand-wringing self-help books cautioning that to free the slaves would ruin their self-esteem.
The rationalizations used in a given period to reinforce bigotry reflect whatever the most prestigious brand of truth is for that culture during that time. So in the US up to the mid 19th century knuck arguments would be phrased in the language of religion, then from the mid 19th through the mid 20th they would use the language of public health, and since the mid 20th they employ the terms of individual psychological well-being.
But the actuality is they just want to enforce whatever crackpot idiocy their parents and pastors passed down to them. The "reasons" are a pretext. If slavery had survived to the present day it would be defended in hand-wringing self-help books cautioning that to free the slaves would ruin their self-esteem.
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Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: Gender Neutral
My 14 y.o. son is by all accounts all "boy" on the surface according to traditional norms. He likes sports (to play not watch), has always been into cars/trucks/planes, Legos, is very mechanically inclined, loves FPS and racing cars video games, could provide endless specs on just about any plane flying overhead more so than most adults I know, etc., etc. And yet he has never really shown any inclination (yet) that he's interested in any girls at his school.
Is he gay? Is he just a late bloomer on that front? To be honest with you I couldn't care less - all I want is that we continue to teach him to be a kind person, thoughtful, caring, giving, thankful, etc., etc. Whatever route he takes on the relationship front is not something I will worry about if the things we've taught him stick. Boys, girls, others, whatever.
My overall point is that while the assumption is that (made up number coming) 95% of us fit into only a few very rigid silos we're learning more and more that this just isn't true. It probably never was but society can be a bitch sometimes and ****ed if it isn't easier to label someone with a tagging that's more comfortable for us than for them.
As younger generations age we should start to see a change like we have with views on gay marriage, but it is going to take time.
My 14 y.o. son is by all accounts all "boy" on the surface according to traditional norms. He likes sports (to play not watch), has always been into cars/trucks/planes, Legos, is very mechanically inclined, loves FPS and racing cars video games, could provide endless specs on just about any plane flying overhead more so than most adults I know, etc., etc. And yet he has never really shown any inclination (yet) that he's interested in any girls at his school.
Is he gay? Is he just a late bloomer on that front? To be honest with you I couldn't care less - all I want is that we continue to teach him to be a kind person, thoughtful, caring, giving, thankful, etc., etc. Whatever route he takes on the relationship front is not something I will worry about if the things we've taught him stick. Boys, girls, others, whatever.
My overall point is that while the assumption is that (made up number coming) 95% of us fit into only a few very rigid silos we're learning more and more that this just isn't true. It probably never was but society can be a bitch sometimes and ****ed if it isn't easier to label someone with a tagging that's more comfortable for us than for them.
As younger generations age we should start to see a change like we have with views on gay marriage, but it is going to take time.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Gender Neutral
We're already seeing them. My daughter is in many ways very traditional, but she literally could not care less what gender somebody self-IDs as and who they like, and more importantly this isn't any point of pride or conflict for her, she would just look at somebody who did care the way we look at our racist grandparents.
In the US, racism is pretty much done*. Sexism is on the way. Homophobia is still very much alive but it's nothing to what we grew up with. And there's really not much more after that. Or rather, there is, but we are literally too blind to see it because it's just part of our mother's milk, the way homophobia, sexism, and racism were to our parents and grandparents.
I look forward to the day when I am the bigoted grandparent. That will be a better world than this one, and my dying will make it even better-er.
* This is outside of the rock bottom class, which hasn't changed since the Assyrians. There is about a 10% out there who still carry the same prejudices and mores as the apes who dropped from the trees, and they will ten thousand years hence.
We're already seeing them. My daughter is in many ways very traditional, but she literally could not care less what gender somebody self-IDs as and who they like, and more importantly this isn't any point of pride or conflict for her, she would just look at somebody who did care the way we look at our racist grandparents.
In the US, racism is pretty much done*. Sexism is on the way. Homophobia is still very much alive but it's nothing to what we grew up with. And there's really not much more after that. Or rather, there is, but we are literally too blind to see it because it's just part of our mother's milk, the way homophobia, sexism, and racism were to our parents and grandparents.
I look forward to the day when I am the bigoted grandparent. That will be a better world than this one, and my dying will make it even better-er.
* This is outside of the rock bottom class, which hasn't changed since the Assyrians. There is about a 10% out there who still carry the same prejudices and mores as the apes who dropped from the trees, and they will ten thousand years hence.
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dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Gender Neutral
Yeah, and 'chill' didn't mean the same thing as it did five years ago and queer doesn't mean what it did 100 years ago.
Yeah, and 'chill' didn't mean the same thing as it did five years ago and queer doesn't mean what it did 100 years ago.