Oh, ok. I read chaplain in the religious leader sense and I thought I had remembered that you worked for a large commercial company, so it confused me.
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Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!
- Thread starter FadeToBlack&Gold
- Start date
- Status
MissThundercat
Are the cis okay?
Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!
Either way, all ends well. I got my three letters of reference, and the chaplain and I are done, even if that's going to suck for a little while.
Either way, all ends well. I got my three letters of reference, and the chaplain and I are done, even if that's going to suck for a little while.
MissThundercat
Are the cis okay?
Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!
Oh my gravy, I told this woman I got the internship regardless of what she thought. She's "happy." Woman, you told me I wasn't qualified because I wasn't a cis female.
I thought about complaining to HR, but I have a hunch they'll tell me to settle it with her. So I'll tell her she's bad and she should feel bad.
Oh my gravy, I told this woman I got the internship regardless of what she thought. She's "happy." Woman, you told me I wasn't qualified because I wasn't a cis female.
I thought about complaining to HR, but I have a hunch they'll tell me to settle it with her. So I'll tell her she's bad and she should feel bad.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!
It's weird, you were right. It sounds like big companies in the south and prairie started doing this about 20 years ago to CYA in case there were in-plant incidents and they didn't offer any kind of psychological counseling. Their employees are used to Jesus so they went with Jesus. I'm surprised they didn't use NASCAR.
Meh. Can't hurt, I suppose. It's an endorsement of religion but whatever, they're private they can put a Satan statue in the lobby if they want.
It's weird, you were right. It sounds like big companies in the south and prairie started doing this about 20 years ago to CYA in case there were in-plant incidents and they didn't offer any kind of psychological counseling. Their employees are used to Jesus so they went with Jesus. I'm surprised they didn't use NASCAR.
Meh. Can't hurt, I suppose. It's an endorsement of religion but whatever, they're private they can put a Satan statue in the lobby if they want.
MissThundercat
Are the cis okay?
Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!
This is the email I sent back to her:
This is the email I sent back to her:
MissThundercat
Are the cis okay?
Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!
This one is low-key on the religion; she is a Christian but isn't forceful with it. Still, I don't know if you read what I wrote to her, but if this is the way she's going to behave, she is bad and she should feel bad.
This one is low-key on the religion; she is a Christian but isn't forceful with it. Still, I don't know if you read what I wrote to her, but if this is the way she's going to behave, she is bad and she should feel bad.
leswp1
Well-known member
Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!
I had a very visceral reaction to this statement and I can't help but respond. (Unsolicited advice. well meant)
You are going to school for social work I think? You are going to run into this kind of thing from patients or clients. A. Lot. Period. The people that have the most need for help are usually the ones who are nastiest to you as a person and their motivations will be a lot nastier. You will hear stuff that isn't good, is inappropriate, attacks you as a person, or sometimes attacks what the person thinks you are even when you aren't. They will actively seek to say things that will be terribly insulting and hurtful. They pick anything they think you will be most hurt by. Sometimes they will hit the mark. Are you going to decide that they are bad and should feel bad?
What she did was not good. It didn't feel good and felt like a betrayal. It shows a lack of a lot of things including knowledge about the issue at hand and more importantly how to process it. She should absolutely know better and doesn't. A better question might be- Do you think she did this to be malicious? Was she actively trying to harm you? Was this her honest assessment no matter how incredibly misguided?
You don't have to like what she did. You don't need to accept her opinion but do you want her to rent space in your head or can you use some of the stuff you are learning and figure out how to put it in its place? That doesn't mean ignore it, not say anything or let it slide. None of those things are healthy. But- what purpose does labeling her as bad or wishing she feel bad. It doesn't make what she said hurt less. Label the behaviour- what she did sucked. That doesn't mean everything she did sucked. She probably was helpful to you at some points. Screwing up now doesn't mean she didn't help before even if it wasn't perfect. Clearly you can't trust her to provide the support when you need it. That sux. But you have been awesome at building of a support network that you can lean on and this place of employment is to pay the rent and bills til you get to do what you really want to.
It took me a long time when I was in practice to figure out humans do not all respond in a good way if I did it right. Humans have a lot of failings. They self select to come for help when they are at their most unlovely. They can be downright nasty. If you learn to label the behaviour rather than the person it allows you to deal with them without it eating you alive.
I had a very visceral reaction to this statement and I can't help but respond. (Unsolicited advice. well meant)
You are going to school for social work I think? You are going to run into this kind of thing from patients or clients. A. Lot. Period. The people that have the most need for help are usually the ones who are nastiest to you as a person and their motivations will be a lot nastier. You will hear stuff that isn't good, is inappropriate, attacks you as a person, or sometimes attacks what the person thinks you are even when you aren't. They will actively seek to say things that will be terribly insulting and hurtful. They pick anything they think you will be most hurt by. Sometimes they will hit the mark. Are you going to decide that they are bad and should feel bad?
What she did was not good. It didn't feel good and felt like a betrayal. It shows a lack of a lot of things including knowledge about the issue at hand and more importantly how to process it. She should absolutely know better and doesn't. A better question might be- Do you think she did this to be malicious? Was she actively trying to harm you? Was this her honest assessment no matter how incredibly misguided?
You don't have to like what she did. You don't need to accept her opinion but do you want her to rent space in your head or can you use some of the stuff you are learning and figure out how to put it in its place? That doesn't mean ignore it, not say anything or let it slide. None of those things are healthy. But- what purpose does labeling her as bad or wishing she feel bad. It doesn't make what she said hurt less. Label the behaviour- what she did sucked. That doesn't mean everything she did sucked. She probably was helpful to you at some points. Screwing up now doesn't mean she didn't help before even if it wasn't perfect. Clearly you can't trust her to provide the support when you need it. That sux. But you have been awesome at building of a support network that you can lean on and this place of employment is to pay the rent and bills til you get to do what you really want to.
It took me a long time when I was in practice to figure out humans do not all respond in a good way if I did it right. Humans have a lot of failings. They self select to come for help when they are at their most unlovely. They can be downright nasty. If you learn to label the behaviour rather than the person it allows you to deal with them without it eating you alive.
MissThundercat
Are the cis okay?
Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!
I told her I would be working with sexual assault, domestic violence, and human trafficking victims. She basically said because I'm not a cis female, I wouldn't understand, therefore I'm not fit to work with these people.
I told her I would be working with sexual assault, domestic violence, and human trafficking victims. She basically said because I'm not a cis female, I wouldn't understand, therefore I'm not fit to work with these people.
MissThundercat
Are the cis okay?
Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!
As a general rule, cisgender, heterosexual men grind my gears. I know, I know, #NotAllMen, but enough of them.
I identify as pansexual, but it would take an extremely special cis male to break that wall.
As a general rule, cisgender, heterosexual men grind my gears. I know, I know, #NotAllMen, but enough of them.
I identify as pansexual, but it would take an extremely special cis male to break that wall.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!
Wouldn’t a cis-het man by definition not be attracted to a trans woman? I’m asking because I’m not sure I fully understand the most modern definitions of sexual attraction and gender identity. I guess I always assumed a heterosexual man is one who is attracted to cis female. Is there a term for someone who is attracted to both cis and trans women? Is there one for a man who is attracted to only trans women?
I honestly feel like there might need to be. Because we’ve gotten more specific in our terminology for how people identify. Shouldn’t we become more specific in how we describe attraction?
Wouldn’t a cis-het man by definition not be attracted to a trans woman? I’m asking because I’m not sure I fully understand the most modern definitions of sexual attraction and gender identity. I guess I always assumed a heterosexual man is one who is attracted to cis female. Is there a term for someone who is attracted to both cis and trans women? Is there one for a man who is attracted to only trans women?
I honestly feel like there might need to be. Because we’ve gotten more specific in our terminology for how people identify. Shouldn’t we become more specific in how we describe attraction?
MissThundercat
Are the cis okay?
We have a term: pansexual.
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
leswp1
Well-known member
Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!
I have to admit I get thoroughly confused with all the various labels and struggle to keep up with what is OK, the latest nomenclature. Every time I read something new there is another term. I get the wanting to be recognized but I feel like I can't keep up and I am going to offend someone if I don't keep up. I vote with Slap Shot about less boundaries.
I've struggled with the label thing for as long as I can remember. (could this be because I was a non-conformist child of the 60s??) As a a young kid I was baffled when people thought labels were important. We were all God's children (I was very literal) why did we need them? I remember asking why anyone cared who loved who if they loved each other. It caused parental consternation- both of my parents looked at me like I was some kind of interesting bug. I couldn't figure out why the question freaked them out.
I think of people in terms of being human not who they are attracted to or what gender they identify with. The world is supposedly now enlightened, accepting people and relabeling everyone. I still struggle with labels. On some level I understand people feeling the need for recognition but it it seems to me that when people label each other it is equal opportunity for recognition and another way to segregate people out for seclusion.
As to the dudes being jerks - It would seem it isn't their gender identity or their sexual orientation that makes them tools. It is coz they are a jerk.
I have to admit I get thoroughly confused with all the various labels and struggle to keep up with what is OK, the latest nomenclature. Every time I read something new there is another term. I get the wanting to be recognized but I feel like I can't keep up and I am going to offend someone if I don't keep up. I vote with Slap Shot about less boundaries.
I've struggled with the label thing for as long as I can remember. (could this be because I was a non-conformist child of the 60s??) As a a young kid I was baffled when people thought labels were important. We were all God's children (I was very literal) why did we need them? I remember asking why anyone cared who loved who if they loved each other. It caused parental consternation- both of my parents looked at me like I was some kind of interesting bug. I couldn't figure out why the question freaked them out.
I think of people in terms of being human not who they are attracted to or what gender they identify with. The world is supposedly now enlightened, accepting people and relabeling everyone. I still struggle with labels. On some level I understand people feeling the need for recognition but it it seems to me that when people label each other it is equal opportunity for recognition and another way to segregate people out for seclusion.
As to the dudes being jerks - It would seem it isn't their gender identity or their sexual orientation that makes them tools. It is coz they are a jerk.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!
I didn’t say someone couldn’t or shouldn’t. I’m wondering if there’s a term for it.
It has literally nothing to do with boundaries. Everyone gets bent out of shape about whether someone is “he”, “she”, “none”, etc. that’s fine and I have no issues with it. Some people prefer to use specific terminology. For some people it’s actually very important. It’s their identify. Some people prefer to use specific terminology. Others don’t.
I think you’ve all seriously misinterpreted my intentions
I didn’t say someone couldn’t or shouldn’t. I’m wondering if there’s a term for it.
It has literally nothing to do with boundaries. Everyone gets bent out of shape about whether someone is “he”, “she”, “none”, etc. that’s fine and I have no issues with it. Some people prefer to use specific terminology. For some people it’s actually very important. It’s their identify. Some people prefer to use specific terminology. Others don’t.
I think you’ve all seriously misinterpreted my intentions
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leswp1
Well-known member
Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!
I agree. I understand some people want a label. I have a hard time when people get mad when I don't know what the right terminology is according to that person. I feel like intent is important too. If someone is a jerk and up a person's grill about using the labels requested that isn't Ok.
I agree. I understand some people want a label. I have a hard time when people get mad when I don't know what the right terminology is according to that person. I feel like intent is important too. If someone is a jerk and up a person's grill about using the labels requested that isn't Ok.
MissThundercat
Are the cis okay?
Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!
There is. I say I'm pansexual. There's also polysexual. It's nice to people like me because now we have terminology for this stuff. And in 1999, when I started figuring all this out... all we had was LGBT. But even in Muskegon High School, liberal as it was, I didn't dare say it.
There is. I say I'm pansexual. There's also polysexual. It's nice to people like me because now we have terminology for this stuff. And in 1999, when I started figuring all this out... all we had was LGBT. But even in Muskegon High School, liberal as it was, I didn't dare say it.
Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!
Yeah, I mean, if I meet a woman, who is transgender (unknown to me), she is just a woman. Period. If I'm attracted or not attracted, doesn't matter. She's a woman. Then say, later on, she says she's transgender. To her, that label is important. To me, it doesn't matter because to me, she's simply a woman, which is what she wanted to be called in the first place. It's confusing and frustrating at times.
MissThundercat
Are the cis okay?
Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!
Lately, I come out way after I've been introduced. The rarity has been with the board and team at Out On The Lakeshore. I needed to.
And yes, the labels are important to us. I just slide that into conversation... most reasonable people are like "oh, okay, cool." The only people who lose their **** are right wing religious types, like my aunt and the woman who was my best friend. Both those people told me I was going to hell for being anything other than a cisgender, heterosexual male.
Even though it can be confusing, roll with us.
Lately, I come out way after I've been introduced. The rarity has been with the board and team at Out On The Lakeshore. I needed to.
And yes, the labels are important to us. I just slide that into conversation... most reasonable people are like "oh, okay, cool." The only people who lose their **** are right wing religious types, like my aunt and the woman who was my best friend. Both those people told me I was going to hell for being anything other than a cisgender, heterosexual male.
Even though it can be confusing, roll with us.
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