D
Deleted member 3166
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Good argument...
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Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!
- Thread starter St. Clown
- Start date
- Status
Good argument...
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!
It's not as if the entire show is in the dumps. The story at Winterfell has some real teeth, so long as they don't flub it. Everything else has been fine, but not as explosive - thematically - as past seasons. It just feels like they used to do more while simultaneously putting less on screen. Now they're punching up the action almost non-stop, and story development has slipped a little, though it's not entirely gone.
With exception of Tormund and Brienne, which never was a thing other than in Tormund's mind, IMO, the majority of the others were pairings made for political reasons, even if one side didn't know it. Jon and Ygritte was more of an opportunity and time, but it didn't play out in a weak manner, the way this Jon and Dany thing has so far.
It's not as if the entire show is in the dumps. The story at Winterfell has some real teeth, so long as they don't flub it. Everything else has been fine, but not as explosive - thematically - as past seasons. It just feels like they used to do more while simultaneously putting less on screen. Now they're punching up the action almost non-stop, and story development has slipped a little, though it's not entirely gone.
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!
Good job recognizing a joke.
Do I need to add one of these
next time?
Good job recognizing a joke.
Do I need to add one of these
next time?
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G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!
This thread is interesting in almost fanboy intolerance of dissenting opinions.
It's a great show - one of my favorites of all time.
I can enjoy something while at the same time recognize flaws.
I even had quibbles with Breaking Bad.
This thread is interesting in almost fanboy intolerance of dissenting opinions.
It's a great show - one of my favorites of all time.
I can enjoy something while at the same time recognize flaws.
I even had quibbles with Breaking Bad.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!
But more interesting is if they do everything right and it still doesn't work. Like, the King is fireproof or something.
In my favorite movies the protagonist does the obvious or even clever thing and is still screwed. My rule of thumb is the writer should have thought of everything I did. I had a few minutes to absorb the story and react to it. She had weeks or months to WRITE it. I should never be ahead of the protagonist; that's lazy writing.
But more interesting is if they do everything right and it still doesn't work. Like, the King is fireproof or something.
In my favorite movies the protagonist does the obvious or even clever thing and is still screwed. My rule of thumb is the writer should have thought of everything I did. I had a few minutes to absorb the story and react to it. She had weeks or months to WRITE it. I should never be ahead of the protagonist; that's lazy writing.
D
Deleted member 3166
Guest
Good job recognizing a joke.
Do I need to add one of these
You act like i didnt...keep up.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!
Yeah, I don't get it either. We obviously enjoy and respect the show enough to watch it, otherwise we wouldn't be writing about it. I didn't post to the Walking Dead thread.
This thread is interesting in almost fanboy intolerance of dissenting opinions.
It's a great show - one of my favorites of all time.
I can enjoy something while at the same time recognize flaws.
I even had quibbles with Breaking Bad.
Yeah, I don't get it either. We obviously enjoy and respect the show enough to watch it, otherwise we wouldn't be writing about it. I didn't post to the Walking Dead thread.
D
Deleted member 3166
Guest
This thread is interesting in almost fanboy intolerance of dissenting opinions.
It's a great show - one of my favorites of all time.
I can enjoy something while at the same time recognize flaws.
I even had quibbles with Breaking Bad.
I think it's more that most people just aren't going to care about perceived flaws. They enjoy the entertainment aspect regardless.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!
With unlimited funds, time, attention span, zero writer turnover, etc. yes, I would have chopped this season into tat least two and made it significantly less clunky at times.
I'm sure the writers and producers desperately would want this as well. But reality is a harsh mistress.
With unlimited funds, time, attention span, zero writer turnover, etc. yes, I would have chopped this season into tat least two and made it significantly less clunky at times.
I'm sure the writers and producers desperately would want this as well. But reality is a harsh mistress.
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!
I don't have any gripes with the ravens or really the Dany/Jon thing but there are some legit gripes to be had. Seems like they have too much story to cram into too little time. The fact that only minor characters are dying in these impossible situations is another issue that kinda goes against earlier episodes and makes things a bit more predictable.
Also this stupid plan of Jon's that even the smartest characters are going along with... just seems like they're forced to move the plot in a certain direction but not sure how to do it.
I don't have any gripes with the ravens or really the Dany/Jon thing but there are some legit gripes to be had. Seems like they have too much story to cram into too little time. The fact that only minor characters are dying in these impossible situations is another issue that kinda goes against earlier episodes and makes things a bit more predictable.
Also this stupid plan of Jon's that even the smartest characters are going along with... just seems like they're forced to move the plot in a certain direction but not sure how to do it.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!
I kept thinking that they should've had a small army, all armed with either flaming swords, Valerian steel, or obsidian weapons. But that didn't appear to be the case as some of the redshirts looked to just be carrying standard weapons, unless I missed a line of dialog.
I kept thinking that they should've had a small army, all armed with either flaming swords, Valerian steel, or obsidian weapons. But that didn't appear to be the case as some of the redshirts looked to just be carrying standard weapons, unless I missed a line of dialog.
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Now that they can mine it you'd assume they're all equipped with dragon glass but I didn't really think about it.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!
But here's the thing, you know you need to resolve the entire story line in 13 episodes, how do you do it? You have to cram it in. What other option do you have?
The minor/major characters thing is actually pretty consistent with the rest of the seasons too. They've managed to kill off Olenna in terms of major characters, and Thoros and Benjen. It was pretty rare to see a major character killed off in the early parts of the seasons. The most consequential episodes have been the last or second-to-last episodes. Only seasons 1 & 3 showcased the ruthlessness of GRRM in the second-to-last episodes. Everyone else has been shown the door most frequently in the last episode of the season.
I fully expect to lose at least one, and almost certainly more than one, major character in the season finale.
But here's the thing, you know you need to resolve the entire story line in 13 episodes, how do you do it? You have to cram it in. What other option do you have?
The minor/major characters thing is actually pretty consistent with the rest of the seasons too. They've managed to kill off Olenna in terms of major characters, and Thoros and Benjen. It was pretty rare to see a major character killed off in the early parts of the seasons. The most consequential episodes have been the last or second-to-last episodes. Only seasons 1 & 3 showcased the ruthlessness of GRRM in the second-to-last episodes. Everyone else has been shown the door most frequently in the last episode of the season.
I fully expect to lose at least one, and almost certainly more than one, major character in the season finale.
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bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!
They decided to go with 13 episodes. HBO said they could use 20 if they wanted to. I imagine the sticking point is that they knew how much CGI budget they would need to finish and went from there.
They decided to go with 13 episodes. HBO said they could use 20 if they wanted to. I imagine the sticking point is that they knew how much CGI budget they would need to finish and went from there.
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!
HBO should have ponied up more money.
This show is getting to be Star Wars level pop culture phenomenon. It's worth the investment.
Of course I haven't seen the numbers and am talking out my arse, but my point stands...
Have seen an awful lot of the "It's a show about dragons etc and people are worried about timelines?"
Um... yes.
Attention to detail matters - even in a fantasy story. ESPECIALLY in a fantasy story that takes itself as seriously as this one does. These people aren't messing around. This is a drama, not an action/adventure.
As Kep said, these people have months... years even to think about this stuff. Production meetings... script writing sessions... feedback...
Get it right. The viewer should not see your flaws on the first viewing.
It's not even nitpicking - it's that obvious.
I get that the masses just want to be entertained. God bless the lowest common denominator. They make our economy go.
You can entertain AND get it right though.
Nobody's holding these people to an impossible standard. They set their own bar with how good this show has been.
It's been a good season, but not on par with some of the previous ones.
Here's hoping that they take the criticisms to heart and kill it for the final season.
With TEN 80 minute episodes.
C'mon HBO... print some money.
HBO should have ponied up more money.
This show is getting to be Star Wars level pop culture phenomenon. It's worth the investment.
Of course I haven't seen the numbers and am talking out my arse, but my point stands...
Have seen an awful lot of the "It's a show about dragons etc and people are worried about timelines?"
Um... yes.
Attention to detail matters - even in a fantasy story. ESPECIALLY in a fantasy story that takes itself as seriously as this one does. These people aren't messing around. This is a drama, not an action/adventure.
As Kep said, these people have months... years even to think about this stuff. Production meetings... script writing sessions... feedback...
Get it right. The viewer should not see your flaws on the first viewing.
It's not even nitpicking - it's that obvious.
I get that the masses just want to be entertained. God bless the lowest common denominator. They make our economy go.
You can entertain AND get it right though.
Nobody's holding these people to an impossible standard. They set their own bar with how good this show has been.
It's been a good season, but not on par with some of the previous ones.
Here's hoping that they take the criticisms to heart and kill it for the final season.
With TEN 80 minute episodes.
C'mon HBO... print some money.
bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!
I'd agree since GoT has been getting 3-4 times the next highest cable rated show this season so far.
I'd agree since GoT has been getting 3-4 times the next highest cable rated show this season so far.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!
But ratings don't drive advertising dollars on HBO. Subscriptions do. They still have budgets.
Your point is understood, they should do better. But it's only because they have set an impossible standard for themselves. Last season was one of the greatest in television history. Tough to follow that up.
But ratings don't drive advertising dollars on HBO. Subscriptions do. They still have budgets.
Your point is understood, they should do better. But it's only because they have set an impossible standard for themselves. Last season was one of the greatest in television history. Tough to follow that up.
bigblue_dl
Armed
Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!
I think it is more of an issue with Benioff and Weisse than HBO. They've done nothing but GoT for like 8 years now, and they have said that they are ready for it to be over. Sure, they could have extended it another season with the material they have, but they didn't want to do that. And these last 2 seasons are shorter, possibly due to budget (and even for the biggest show ever, there is a budget), possibly due to time constraints (they pushed back filming by about 6 months, and only pushed back the premier about 3 months), with massive amounts of dragon related CGI work that needed to be done as well.
I think it is more of an issue with Benioff and Weisse than HBO. They've done nothing but GoT for like 8 years now, and they have said that they are ready for it to be over. Sure, they could have extended it another season with the material they have, but they didn't want to do that. And these last 2 seasons are shorter, possibly due to budget (and even for the biggest show ever, there is a budget), possibly due to time constraints (they pushed back filming by about 6 months, and only pushed back the premier about 3 months), with massive amounts of dragon related CGI work that needed to be done as well.
bigblue_dl
Armed
Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!
Also, I read somewhere that the timing for the Gendry/Raven/Drogon sequence is realistically 4 days. I am not sure how someone calculated that, but they did. And apparently, at the presumed temperature, thats also approximately how long that lake should take to freeze to a point where an army could walk across it. Seems like that part might actually work out from a timeline standpoint.
Also, I read somewhere that the timing for the Gendry/Raven/Drogon sequence is realistically 4 days. I am not sure how someone calculated that, but they did. And apparently, at the presumed temperature, thats also approximately how long that lake should take to freeze to a point where an army could walk across it. Seems like that part might actually work out from a timeline standpoint.
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!
Olenna and her daughter are kinda secondary characters. I think when Dany attacked the Lannisters and Jamie/Bronn got away that was pretty ridiculous, those are two beloved characters that are pretty major and while it would suck if either of them went it'd at least keep you guessing. Right now it just seems like there's rarely ever consequences for ill thought out planning or actions. Dany did lose one dragon but this was two episodes after one got hit by the big crossbow/scorpion and survived even after her foolish risk taking. This isn't even getting into how dumb Jon Snow is and the fact that there's never any consequences for his actions (from what I understand the book is a bit different in this regard and stays consistent with there being consequences).
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